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Maybe I am being stupid but I don't understand this...they are one and the same?
They intend to build a second outside mesh topped enclosure for the gorillas that will be connected directly to the “island” via a glass overhead tunnel over the public.

Again I ask, will these plans involve bigger indoor exhibit area for the Gorillas- and if so how much?
I believe from looking at the plans that part of the old inside enclosure that has recently held Sulawesi macaques is being retrofitted into new gorilla space which they will have access to as well as the current “day gym” (please someone correct me if this is wrong).

The plans also show an overhead tunnel connecting the new “large primate” outside enclosure and the indoor gorilla facilities, presumably for mixing whatever primate they choose.
 
Do all/any of the plans( I have looked but can't decipher) indicate whether this will create extra space in the indoor 'dayroom' for the gorillas? Is that part of the plan?
I have spent some time going through all the documents about the gorilla/mangabey plans. The interesting one is virtually hidden under by the title REVA__COMPRESSED-8450626. It has the important plans, photos of the existing structures and of an architectural model of the new areas, together with an explanation of the reasoning for the changes and many significant details.
Essentially the existing gorilla island, day room and off-show dens are not being changed, except for a new tower and bridge over the public pathway, to allow the gorillas to access the new areas from the island. The new outdoor area replaces the old Sobell outdoor run, where older ZooChatters may remember watching giant pandas sleeping, but it will be larger and have a higher mesh roof. The two old indoor enclosures will be joined and linked to the existing dens, with two extra dens added. This will allow two separate groups of gorillas to be housed, if this becomes necessary, as recommended by the Husbandry Guidelines. The mangabeys will have an enlarged outdoor exhibit which will be joined to both new gorilla exhibits by mesh tunnels.
As the gorillas' existing areas are essentially unaltered, if the plans go through there should not be too much disturbance and I expect that the gorillas will be able to remain on-show while most of the work is in progress.
 
I have spent some time going through all the documents about the gorilla/mangabey plans. The interesting one is virtually hidden under by the title REVA__COMPRESSED-8450626. It has the important plans, photos of the existing structures and of an architectural model of the new areas, together with an explanation of the reasoning for the changes and many significant details.
Essentially the existing gorilla island, day room and off-show dens are not being changed, except for a new tower and bridge over the public pathway, to allow the gorillas to access the new areas from the island. The new outdoor area replaces the old Sobell outdoor run, where older ZooChatters may remember watching giant pandas sleeping, but it will be larger and have a higher mesh roof. The two old indoor enclosures will be joined and linked to the existing dens, with two extra dens added. This will allow two separate groups of gorillas to be housed, if this becomes necessary, as recommended by the Husbandry Guidelines. The mangabeys will have an enlarged outdoor exhibit which will be joined to both new gorilla exhibits by mesh tunnels.
As the gorillas' existing areas are essentially unaltered, if the plans go through there should not be too much disturbance and I expect that the gorillas will be able to remain on-show while most of the work is in progress.

Thanks for the pointer. I have skimmed through it all and now have a real idea what they are talking about! I can imagine what the new outdoor enclosures both for Gorillas and 'large primates' will be like but it will be interesting to see the look of the actual redesign of the two existing Sobell dens for gorillas. It seems this is a sort of insurance to allow for an 'overflow' group of Gorillas in due course- perhaps Gernot and a companion or two when the time comes? The current group seems very harmonious so I can't see it being necessary in other form. It also allows the addition of another primate to Gorilla island, but with their own on show exhibit as well. Clear as day now. Have you any idea of the time frame though?
 
Thanks for the pointer. . . . Have you any idea of the time frame though?
Thank you. I knew there would be good stuff in the package, but it was not easy to find. The timescale will depend on the planning process of course, but there is not a lot of work to be done with the buildings as the foundations and load-bearing walls will not really be affected. The condition of the roof may require more work. Out of doors there are some trees and the old Sobell enclosures to be removed and then the framework, windows and mesh of the new enclosures to be installed, but that should not take too long. I would guess that it might be complete early next year, but I could be very wrong.
 
Diana Monkeys (albeit segregated ) are now consolidated in the enclosures that the (American) arrivals previously had exclusive access to. The enclosures on the left as you enter Gorilla Territory are thus now empty.
 
I have spent some time going through all the documents about the gorilla/mangabey plans. The interesting one is virtually hidden under by the title REVA__COMPRESSED-8450626. It has the important plans, photos of the existing structures and of an architectural model of the new areas, together with an explanation of the reasoning for the changes and many significant details.

Thanks for this, it certainly gives a good idea of what is proposed. It’s interesting to see the master plan overview, not something I have seen before.

Is this new to everyone? Are any other details known? The African Savannah element looks particularly interesting with a new giraffe house.
 
Thanks for this, it certainly gives a good idea of what is proposed. It’s interesting to see the master plan overview, not something I have seen before.

Is this new to everyone? Are any other details known? The African Savannah element looks particularly interesting with a new giraffe house.
London Zoo's had similar master plans before, but all that's really known post Monkey Valley/SLoRA is a new entrance and (if this goes through) the new Gorilla Kingdom renovations. A lot of the concept makes sense, save for converting Tiger Territory and the surrounding areas into a bigger African Jungle section and lumping Land of the Lions, an Indian themed area, into a new African Savanna area. That being said, it may be prudent that if London were to continue with giraffes, they'd start thinking about a brand-new facility in the same vein as SLoRA and Giants of the Galapagos...
 
Diana Monkeys (albeit segregated ) are now consolidated in the enclosures that the (American) arrivals previously had exclusive access to. The enclosures on the left as you enter Gorilla Territory are thus now empty.
The Diana monkeys are segregated from each other?
 
My visit to London Zoo was, let's just say deserted. The cold weather didn't stop animals like gorillas, lions and tigers from showing off inside (see media). An update to the farm, the goat walkthrough has been paved.
 
Huh! Stumbled across this masterplan in the planning documents, which seems to throw the current zoo's biogeographical zoning and all recent additions (e.g. Tiger Territory, Land of the Lions etc.) completely out the window. Does anyone know anything else about this?


Genuine plan or (I think much more likely) the architect design firm just pulling things out of thin air as a demonstrative example?
 
If this is a genuine plan, then it will take many, many years to complete.

A new and improved giraffe enclosure as part of an African Savannah would be great - facilitating a full herd without the serious welfare concerns of the current stable. I also love the idea of the Galapagos Tortoises and Humboldt Penguins being the foundation of a ‘Ocean’ zone with a clear South American theme.

But other than that, so much of this plan makes absolutely no sense, so much so that it leads me to believe it is, as @Tea_and_Biology suggests, ‘a demonstrative example’ from the architect firm of how these new Gorilla Kingdom plans could lead to a modern geo-zoo further down the line.

According to this, an area of the zoo with exclusively African animals (the African hoofstock on the Cottons and the colobus in Snowdon) will become ‘Asian Forest.’ Seems fairly random. But then there is a string of Southeast Asian exhibits (the Komodo house, Tiger Territory and the Babirusa on the Cassons) being lumped into the same ‘African Forest’ zone as Gorilla Kingdom and a Bird Safari that was originally intended for solely African species, but in recent years has lost any geographical consistency and now holds a rather random assortment of species, although that can easily be reverted, I feel.

The construction of two hotels is a bit of a leap, and I feel as though if this were the long-term plan there would be information about it more publicly (perhaps not, though). I don’t mind this myself, but I’m sure other members will. To be honest, given how widespread this practice is becoming in zoos, this is an actually one of the more plausible facets of this ‘masterplan.’

My scepticism about whether these plans are genuine goals rather than random ideas visualised on a map mainly comes down to two, particularly bizarre things: the incorporation of LotL, which is very clearly themed to an Indian village in a manner that directly links to ZSL’s in situ work in the Gir Forest, into an ‘African Savannah’; and the supposed transition of the Clore from an onshow area for animals to a pair of (presumably behind-the-scenes) staff facilities. I do not believe that the zoo intends to undo all the expenses that went into theming LotL by re theming it, or for that matter throwing much of their credibility in terms of enclosure design out of the window by having a clearly Indian exhibit in an African display. To be honest, incorporating Blackburn and Tiny Giants into it is bizarre, too. The Clore becoming staff facilities is just bizarre, and would be a real error by the zoo in my eyes.

Only time will tell. I suspect when the Gorilla Kingdom plans are officially announced, there will be some sort of cryptic reference to how this is the first stage of a metamorphosis should this actually be a long-term goal. But to be honest, I doubt it will ever happen. And in some ways, that may be a good thing.
 
As a silly American, who has been to London Zoo three times in a week last year, nobody needs to know what I think much, but adding to the chorus that this master plan feels bonkers. The 'Oceans' zone shows penguins, but the Penguin Pool is in African Savannah, as is the Indian-themed Land of the Lions and the non-themed Blackburn Pavilion and Tiny Giants. It feels so nuts to re-theme near the entire main zoo on Africa and the canals on Asia when so much of the main zoo is already very Asian-themed in concept and well-executed. The lion and tiger themed zones and Komodo dragon exhibit are fantastic as they are and already do a great job simulating Asia. Getting rid of the Clore would also be a silly, ill-minded decision. These are major strengths that should be leaned in towards, not against.

I'd love for London to build a new Savannah habitat to better accommodate giraffe and hopefully a mixed species, but this doesn't feel like the right route to do it, and feels like betraying a lot of what the zoo is already doing well to get there.
 
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