European (Tea)Cup - League D - Tierpark Berlin vs Stuttgart

[TeaLovingDave]

Another match, and another pair of well-respected and noteworthy zoological collections making their debut in this iteration of the Zoochat Cup - both have much to recommend them in a wide variety of categories, but for the purposes of this match we are looking at only one: ASIA.

As usual, the question of how you make your decision is up to you but it is very much preferable for your logic and reasoning to be posted openly, in order to prompt discussion and debate, and to assist others to make their own minds up.

A minor point regarding the scope of the category - species and exhibits relating to the borderline countries of Turkey and Russia, and the borderline region of the Caucasus are fair game.

 

[lintworm]

I feel that Tierpark Berlin is very lucky with this category as it combines some of the strongest and newest part of their zoo like Himalaya and the Alfred Brehm house, with a varied collection throughout the rest of the zoo (pheassants, laughingthrushes and deer!). While on the other hand the Wilhelma has its weakest enclosures in this category with the elephants, tapir, rhino and babirusa. There are a lot of much better Asian enclosures throughout the zoo from markhor to estuarine crocodile, but not enough by a big margin. It is unfortunate for them that the near future doesn't count as a large Siberian tiger exhibit should open this summer and construction should start relatively soon on a huge Asian elephant complex. For now sounds like a solid 4-1 for Berlin...

 

[twilighter]

I can only second @lintworm opinion. To the fantastic Hymalaya zone and renovated Alfred Brem House I can add the newest brilliant exhibit at Tierpark dedicated to Indonesia. Wilhelma's otherwise huge collection have few Asian strengths and I will also go for 4 -1. Snow Leopard, Markhor rocks and the Reptile collection at Wilhelma are the reasons not to vote for clear swap 5-0.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

This is an interesting one because I've never visited Wilhelma and the Asian strongpoints at TP all opened after my last visit. I know TP to have a very strong Asian animal collection, though. Based on this and the above comments by @lintworm and @twilighter I feel comfortable goin 4-1 Berlin for now. It's just a shame the pika died out

~Thylo

 

[PossumRoach]

I have been to both collections with five years therefore I feel comfortable enough to vote for this one. In addition to the above points, I just don’t feel like there’s anything in Wilhelma that screams “ASIA” to me, despite having an Asian themed area that acts as a recreational area and a petting zoo. That area is just unremarkable.

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

It's been about a decade since I last went to Berlin Tierpark, but I do remember being very impressed with their animal collection. The standout for me was their little "Mountain Walk", if you will, out the back and I definitely recall that the vast majority of the species there, many of which I'd never seen before up until my first visit, were indeed Asian.

I know there are other Asian animals around the zoo, but I feel like the mountain walk alone will make Berlin Tierpark very hard to top.

 

[amur leopard]

It would be great if someone who has visited Wilhelma could quickly run through what they offer in this category, as I don't really have too much of an idea?

As for Tierpark Berlin:

• The Himalayan exhibit is one of the best exhibit areas I've ever seen - really carefully and conservatively themed, easily the best red panda, tufted deer and Pallas's cat exhibits I've ever seen, plus an world-leading hoofstock collection on that front and some lovely smaller additions like rock squirrels, pheasants and langurs. It's absolutely brilliant.
• The renovated Alfred-Brehm Haus is a joy to be in as well - pretty much everything in and around there qualifies as far as I'm aware. Outstanding terraria for an exceptional array of species, a lovely central aviary plus tomistomas, various turtles and mouse deer, even with an elevated walkway. Around it are great indoor areas for tigers, sun bears, binturong and clouded leopard, plus bear cuscuses. Then outside are excellent exhibits for clouded leopards and golden cats, plus exhibits for Javan leopards, tigers and sun bears which could potentially use some work. Cheetahs are also near here, and there's also a really nice pademelon walkthrough, but I'm unsure as to whether these qualify?
• Many of the hoofstock scattered around the park are Asian, including Bawean deer, Pere David's deer, Javan rusa, Altai maral, Bactrian deer, Musk ox, Taiga musk deer, Przewalski's horse... All in exhibits ranging from decent to excellent.
• There's a little carnivore corner with the largest Yellow throated marten exhibit I've seen, plus another excellent Pallas's cat exhibit and a great Masked palm civet exhibit to boot. Around the corner are Arabian striped hyenas and Chinese dholes in a lovely wooded enclosure.
• Then there's the Pheasantry and environs, with a plethora of pheasants and laughingthrushes from the Himalayan region. Nearby is a nice pig-tailed macaque exhibit and tucked away in the little garden around the corner are Red and white giant flying squirrels.

I haven't even mentioned it all, but if I'm honest I'm much closer to a 5-0 than a 3-2, though that could change if Wilhelma has substantial merit in the category. For pictures of the Himalaya area, best bet is probably @twilighter's images on page 61 of the Tierpark Berlin page, starting here: Marco Polo Sheep - ZooChat.

 

[lintworm]

It would be great if someone who has visited Wilhelma could quickly run through what they offer in this category, as I don't really have too much of an idea?

A mixed bunch really. The best are probably the enclosures in the mountain area for markhor:

enclosure on both sides of the bridge

and snow leopard

which shows maybe 25% of the space and much of it is on a steep slope.

The other strong point are the aviaries in the walkthrough section, with one for SE-Asian tropical birds:

and a large one for European (mostly Eurasian species:

There are other aviaries in this complex with Asian birds and Tierpark doesn't have any aviary complex that can compete with it. Throughout the zoo there are plenty of other bird aviaries with Asian species, but most are very standard stuff.

Most of the Asian collection is probably ectotherm stuff, which is kept in the 50+ year old aquarium. The focal points are the landscape aquaria, of which 2 are Asian-themed:

And then there are a lot of smaller aquaria as well as terraria devoted to Asian species (and from the rest of the world too):

The building might not be pretty, but most of the individual exhibits are nicely designed in itself.

The central point of this building is the (Australian themed) crocodile hall, but the main attraction is a large exhibit with 2 large estuarine crocodiles:

Then there is the invertebrate house, which has a mix of invertebrates from around the world, including from Asia, with a focal point being the butterfly greenhouse:

@Maguari , which houses fruit bats too.

Then there are bits and pieces throughout the zoo, such as this aviary in the small mammal & bird house with mousedeer, pygmy goose and some more birds:

The whole is brought down by a stretch of concrete stretching from a Japanese macaque rock landscape towards the tapir. This row includes lowlights such as the Asian elephant exhibit:

and the best exhibit in this area is for Asiatic lions:

The other species housed in this area are babirusa, Malayan tapir, Indian rhino and Persian leopard.

Berlin is really lucky with this geographical category, would it have been S-America or Australia it would have been beaten thoroughly and also with Africa or Europe it would have a hard time.

 

[twilighter]

It would be great if someone who has visited Wilhelma could quickly run through what they offer in this category, as I don't really have too much of an idea?

As for Tierpark Berlin:

• The Himalayan exhibit is one of the best exhibit areas I've ever seen - really carefully and conservatively themed, easily the best red panda, tufted deer and Pallas's cat exhibits I've ever seen, plus an world-leading hoofstock collection on that front and some lovely smaller additions like rock squirrels, pheasants and langurs. It's absolutely brilliant.
• The renovated Alfred-Brehm Haus is a joy to be in as well - pretty much everything in and around there qualifies as far as I'm aware. Outstanding terraria for an exceptional array of species, a lovely central aviary plus tomistomas, various turtles and mouse deer, even with an elevated walkway. Around it are great indoor areas for tigers, sun bears, binturong and clouded leopard, plus bear cuscuses. Then outside are excellent exhibits for clouded leopards and golden cats, plus exhibits for Javan leopards, tigers and sun bears which could potentially use some work. Cheetahs are also near here, and there's also a really nice pademelon walkthrough, but I'm unsure as to whether these qualify?
• Many of the hoofstock scattered around the park are Asian, including Bawean deer, Pere David's deer, Javan rusa, Altai maral, Bactrian deer, Musk ox, Taiga musk deer, Przewalski's horse... All in exhibits ranging from decent to excellent.
• There's a little carnivore corner with the largest Yellow throated marten exhibit I've seen, plus another excellent Pallas's cat exhibit and a great Masked palm civet exhibit to boot. Around the corner are Arabian striped hyenas and Chinese dholes in a lovely wooded enclosure.
• Then there's the Pheasantry and environs, with a plethora of pheasants and laughingthrushes from the Himalayan region. Nearby is a nice pig-tailed macaque exhibit and tucked away in the little garden around the corner are Red and white giant flying squirrels.

I haven't even mentioned it all, but if I'm honest I'm much closer to a 5-0 than a 3-2, though that could change if Wilhelma has substantial merit in the category. For pictures of the Himalaya area, best bet is probably @twilighter's images on page 61 of the Tierpark Berlin page, starting here: Marco Polo Sheep - ZooChat.

I would not give Wilhelma more than a point but, It is worth checking the their Bird, Reptile and Fish collection, but also:
Markhor exhibit


Snow Leopard


Saltwater crocodile




Small mammals house with Kanchil and Tupaia


Edit:
Seems like @lintworm and I were working on post simultaneously

 

[cornu aspersum]

and the best exhibit in this area is for Asiatic lions:

Maybe it's because I am looking at it from a picture, but it looks quite a bit small.

 

[Kudu21]

Finally a match where I have actually been to both zoos My comments largely echo what has already been shared, but I am just happy to feel confident enough to contribute While Wilhelma is the zoo that surprised me the most on my European jaunt last September (I enjoyed it a lot more than I was expecting to!), it really does not have much of a leg to stand on compared to the Tierpark (which was one of my favorites, overall) when it comes to "Asia". The Himalaya complex is truly a standout and is one of my favorite exhibits I have ever seen, and the Alfred-Brehm Haus is also a really enjoyable building with mostly very good exhibits. These two powerhouses coupled with the very impressive hoofstock, bird, and carnivore collection scattered across the park in also mostly nice exhibits make it tough to compete with... even before considering that some of Wilhelma's very worst exhibits fall under this category. That said, I have chosen to still award Wilhelma one point because the markhor and snow leopard exhibits in the "mountain" region of the zoo really are quite nice, as is the walk-through aviary. This coupled with the overall impressive bird and ectotherm (I quite enjoyed the proper, old-style ectotherm building) collection are enough to still warrant a single point for me.

 

[oflory]

The Tierpark's strongest areas are the Asian areas, as stated above. The revived Alfred-Brehm House and the Himalayas area are incredibly strong, but then there are all the miscellaneous hoofstock paddocks, aviaries and small mammal enclosures with Asian fauna.

I am going to Stuttgart this year - so can't really comment as yet, but from the pictures above, it can't compete well in this category.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

The biggest landslide of the Cup so far:

Tierpark Berlin - 99/125 points - 79.200%
Stuttgart - 26/125 points - 20.800%

However, it is still very much all to play for - if the right categories fall here or there, either collection could progress or falter!