European (Tea)Cup - League D - Leipzig vs Stuttgart

[TeaLovingDave]

This one will be rather interesting I think; not only are the two competitors both very popular and well-known German zoological collections, with a corresponding increase in the likelihood that plenty of people reading this thread have familiarity with one or both zoos, but moreover this is the first time that the category of ISLANDS AND AUSTRALIA has cropped up within this iteration of the Zoochat Cup - and this category has always proved to be full of potential for discussion and debate!

Incidentally - if anyone wants clarification on whether a given species or exhibit falls within the purview of the category, just ask.... although I suspect it will be fairly obvious.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

This feels like another fairly well-balanced one and my opinion may shift - but for now, I think my 3:2 vote has to go to Stuttgart. I'll give others a chance to provide their own thoughts and opinions before I go into detail about my own stance on the matter, naturally

 

[twilighter]

This category used to call Australia and Islands in one of the previous challenges (and if that was the case, it would be probably easy win for Stuttgart and not big discussion) but not anymore.

Tasmania still counts tho, and Wilhelma has a very intresting Tasmanian portfolio - Eastern Quoll, Wombat, Potoro, Golden Possums and they got Tasmanian Grey kangaroos resently. Surprisingly no Lemurs, but one astonishing rarity from Madagascar - Fanaloka. Also Goodfellow’s Tree-kangaroo and the only Kaka outside New Zealand.

Leipzig has a good amount of species in the Tropical setting of Gondwanaland with special mention of Free-flyng Vietnamese small foxes. Also Quolls and Kowari, Crowned Lemurs, Tomistoma, Komodo Dragon, Fishing cat and free-flyng birds. In addition Sri-Lanka Giant Squirrel at the Bird house as a cool rarity.

Non-surprisingly Fanaloka is one of my most beloved small carnivores, but I will surprise her and will vote against her on the begininig

Sumatran Orangutans stunning exhibit and regular breeding record at Pongoland is the reason for me to start with 3-2 for Leipzig .

 

[TeaLovingDave]

This category used to call Australia and Islands in one of the previous challenges (and if that was the case, it would be probably easy win for Stuttgart and not big discussion) but not anymore.

Australia *is* still included within this category - I merely forgot to specify this in the opening post although I'd have thought the fact I already openly declared my allegiance to Stuttgart would have given it away!

To avoid any further confusion, the remit of the category covers the entirety of Oceania, plus all major islands and island chains in the Atlantic, Indian and Pacific Oceans. To stop too much overlap with the "Mountains and Poles" category, we won't include any of the islands in the Arctic Ocean, nor the Falklands and Sub-Antarctic islands.

Any other fringe cases, just ask

 

[twilighter]

Australia *is* still included within this category - I merely forgot to specify this in the opening post although I'd have thought the fact I already openly declared my allegiance to Stuttgart would have given it away!

Maybe it's good to change back the name of the category to avoid another discussion .

If the whole Australian continent is part of the category is difficult for Leipzig to stand ground. I can add to the world-class Gondwanaland and Pongoland exhibits the Koala House and Anoa at Leipzig, but Australian house at Wilhelma is remarcable achievement and brought Quakka to Europe. I will change my vote to 3-2 for Stuttgart.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Maybe it's good to change back the name of the category to avoid another discussion .

Good idea - I've now done so.

 

[lintworm]

This is likely the only matchup where both competitors do not have ring-tailed lemurs!

Stuttgart will be very hard to beat in this category. Consider the main Australian offerings alone:
- An excellent Australia house with a large selection of Australian mammals including the only quokka and the botanically best designed koala enclosure
- A nice walkthrough aviary with Australian birds
- A good crocodile greenhouse with both freshwater & estuarine crocodile, with several good terraria for other Australian species too, including a new large exhibit for lace monitor.

To add, it houses the only kaka outside New Zealand (though that enclosure is nothing to boast about) and there are plenty other qualifying species around.

Leipzig does have their excellent eastern quoll work and a variety of other species, but little that screams this category. I also don't agree with @twilighter, I think the orangutan enclosure is rather poor. It looks like it was designed for gorilla, with only a single indoor and outdoor enclosure and relatively few climbing opportunities.

 

[PossumRoach]

Thankfully both Leipzig and Wilhelma list the in-situ conservation projects they work with on their websites.

Leipzig works on:

• Reforestation of old palm plantations in Sabah Borneo.
• Conservation of Komodo dragons in Wae Wuul reserve.

Wilhelma works on:

• Raising funds for Sumatran rhinoceros
• Raising funds for anti poaching units in Kerinci Seblat National Park in Sumatra to help protect Sumatran tigers.
• Raising funds for the restoration of the Lamandau reserve for orangutans.
• Supporting local breeding of Visayan warty pigs and reducing the human animal conflict.
• Funding DreamWorld Foundation’s Koala land project.
• Donating to the Save the Bilby Fund

So conservation-wise it’s easy to tell who is winning here. In fact the ratio of Stuttgart’s project to Leipzig’s might even raise Wilhelma’s point for me by one.

On another note, the removal of some island birds (citron-crested cockatoos and rainbow lorikeets) from display to destroy the old unflattering aviaries doesn’t really help Leipzig by much either.

 

[twilighter]

I believe that there are few trumps in Leipzig's sleeve for this category and even nothing scream as load as the Australian house at Wilhelma, they still have what to be proud of.

I am taking @lintworm note for the Orangutan exhibit and must say that even if it is not as impressive as the Chimpanzee exhibit for example is still one of the Germany's bests.





The Biggest drawing card of Leipzig is actually the Taiwanese Pangolin


Sri Lanka Giant squirrel


Koala House




Wallaby Walkthrough exhibit


As a former EEP coordinator Leipzig still working closely with Anoa in Breeding Centre Manado, Indonesia. They are mixed with Visayan warty pig here




Whit their impressive breeding record of Eastern Quoll, Leipzig is the main source of this species in Europe.

 

[twilighter]

Malayan Tapir Centerpiece exhibit at Gondwanaland




Sunda Gharial


ASCW




They are Flying foxes not only at Gondwanaland, but at Bird House as well


There are also few very interesting island bird species at the Bird House

 

[PossumRoach]

To avoid any further confusion, the remit of the category covers the entirety of Oceania, plus all major islands and island chains in the Atlantic, Indian and Pacific Oceans. To stop too much overlap with the "Mountains and Poles" category, we won't include any of the islands in the Arctic Ocean, nor the Falklands and Sub-Antarctic islands.

Does “island chains in the Atlantic” include the Caribbean? If so wouldn’t that overlap witn the “South America and The Caribbean” category?

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Does “island chains in the Atlantic” include the Caribbean? If so wouldn’t that overlap witn the “South America and The Caribbean” category?

I think the overlap is fine in that case - my quoted exemption was mostly to stop people including stuff like polar bear, arctic fox and other polar species which happen to sometimes occur on islands but don't feel like they should count as "island species". I will consult @CGSwans for his feedback on how he treated the matter.

 

[remar]

I think i'm going with 4:1 for Wilhelma this time. Not mentioned yet where the Malayan Tapirs, Babirusa and the Japanese macaques at the upper part of the zoo. Similar to many of the exhibits at Leipzigs Gondwanaland all of theme are not the biggest. Although the one at Leipzig are at least pleasant to the eye.

Despite Fanaloka and Kaka thee main draw for the Wilhelma is however the lower part. Terra Australies, the walkthrough aviary and some nice stuff at the terrarium house were already mentioned.
However there is one more thing i want to highlight. This beautiful landscape aquarium which houses different island species from Southeast Asia

Aquarium - SE Asian landscape aquarium

• lintworm
• 28 Sep 2023

 

[oflory]

I am yet to visit Stuttgart (roll on March!) but think the Australia house looks so strong that it is hard for Leipzig to compete. If we're including the pangolins and the giant squirrels, they count for something so it is a 3/2 to Stuttgart for me.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

A fairly well-balanced match between two competitors with plenty to offer in this category, although the result was never really in doubt:

Leipzig - 49/135 points - 36.296%
Stuttgart - 86/135 points - 63.704%
.