austrlain zoo gower
Well-Known Member
Why can’t capybara be housed in Victoria?
Melbourne Zoo The Future of Zoos Victoria 2025 (Speculation/Fantasy)
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dylan downward
Well-Known Member
I feel like I heard somewhere that a new gibbon or primate exhibit was being considered to as well as orangutan expansion but I may have heard wrong to
Though this hasn’t been publicly confirming by Zoos Victoria, several of us have suggested it. An expansion of the Sumatran orangutan facilities, with a new exhibit or two would serve them well; with Siamang and Northern white-cheeked gibbon presumably included in these plans (with aerial lines connecting the exhibits to promote a rotational concept).
Different states have different rules, usually pertaining to biosecurity. Tasmania only allows castrated male coati for example.
It appears Victoria have identified Capybara are having a reasonable chance of establishing a feral population and decided this is the best way to mitigate this risk.
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Not correct.
The Darling Downs Zoo worked for 10 years to have the Queensland government change it's Meerkat policy. Other Australian states could keep Meerkats for 40 years prior to that.
In 2015 we displayed the first group of Meerkat [6] in this state but were not allowed to breed them.
Another few year's battling and we finally were permitted to breed them in 2022. It can be done!
Some other states still have restrictions on what can and can't be bred in their jurisdictions [Victoria and WA come to mind] but those restrictions usually don't reflect the reality of modern day exotic animal containment standards and biosecurity protocols in our zoos.
There is also a political slant in some states to allow government owned zoos to breed but denying privately owned zoos that right.
austrlain zoo gower
Well-Known Member
I don’t understand some of these rules. It is basically impossible for capybara if kept in captivity to become an invasive species. That’s like saying American alligators could be invasive to crocks
Thanks for letting us know Steve.
About 10 minutes before you posted, I noticed my mistake after I saw Darling Downs Zoo had recently bred meerkats and edited my post. There’s been so many births in the region (not least at Darling Downs Zoo), it’s hard to keep track.
I was beginning to think I’d imagined there had previously been a breeding restriction on meerkats in Queensland, so am very grateful for your explanation!
It’s inspiring that Darling Downs Zoo were instrumental in bringing about a revision of the rules to first hold and then breed the species.
I think you make a good point about the restrictions not reflecting modern containment standards. Similarly many of us are baffled by the concerns raised in IRA’s; but I acknowledge they have to think worse case scenario in some instances.
No your right on the money - I've heard the same.
It really depends on Melbourne's plans for orangutans going forward. Do they intend to breed; Do they intend to just hold a single breeding pair? Currently the region has four facilities dedicated to holding Sumatrans; and only one facility breeding (Perth). It really depends on the region and whether there will be a need for Melbourne to accommodate more Orangutans in the future.
austrlain zoo gower
Well-Known Member
I was told on my visit, 1 week ago by a volunteer that they are hopefully going to breed the White cheeked gibbons. She mentioned a new enclosure being built for orangutan's and gibbons for breeding opportunities. She told me she is leaving with the elephants to go work at Weribee full time. A primate expansion, Komodo dragon enclosure, possibly tapir and binturong would
Be an excellent replacement for the elephants
Be an excellent replacement for the elephants
Li-lian turns 18 years old this year and given she’s failed to breed with partners, I’m not overly optimistic she’ll successfully breed. A new exhibit could give her increased privacy, but whether that alone will be conducive to breeding, I don’t know.
An orangutan expansion will be very exciting. Perth has four viable breeding females and the masterplan is unclear whether it will support the housing of a large colony or a slimmed down colony in a larger exhibit/exhibts. Moving a pair of females such as Pulang (1993) and Lestari (2012) to Melbourne would allow Perth to concrete on breeding Dinar (1987) with Sekara (1990) and Teliti (2009).
Most of the elephant keepers will be heading across to Werribee. An orangutan expansion was on the cards. I'd assume a decision would have been made on this and obviously it would come down to whether the criteria I mentioned above are met.
Equally good to hear Melbourne still intend to breed their White Cheeked Gibbons. Li Lian hasn't conceived in a while now and has had issues with being comfortable around visitors. Not sure if that would relate to her not conceiving as of yet but it's a possibility.
austrlain zoo gower
Well-Known Member
I still holding out hope for breeding, I think her age is not a concern at the moment. 18 years old gibbons can still easily conceive. Sexual maturation for the species if around 6-8 years of age. However most gibbons only start having offspring at age 11 or older. Considering White Cheeked gibbon can live to there 40s in captivity there is lots of time left!
MZ have incorporated many things to help give her privacy, including the black glass, not allowing guest right up to the glass, and growing the sides of the enclosure. From what one of the keepers told me she if very selective with who she likes and who she doesn't . On my visit at least, she came right up to the glass, and interacted with me, furthermore when I was talking to the keeper, she was fine with me and 3 other individuals being very close to her.
Breeding will come in time. Building a large new enclosure, with foliage and larger back of house facilites may also help her conceive, if they were not featured on the orangutan expansions, the Japanese island could be a good spot, as it is set back from the visitors, along with large night quarter and vegetation that she can hide in.
Isador is getting on in age, she is 42 years old, the average life span in captivity is around 40, all though many individuals have lived pass this. Sampit is around 28 years old, so still has a long life ahead of him. Whilst Isador still seems to be in great condition, once she eventually passes, Sampit could live in the tree top apes and monkeys, whilst the gibbons move in to the island. They might either find him a new mate, or incorporate a non breeding pair or male. The breeding focus will be on Kemala and Batak. An orangutang expansion, could facilitate, a non breeding and breeding enclosure for the siamang
In terms of Forest of Wonder
Here is what I envision
The trail would remain focused on species from South East Asia. The 3rd elephant paddock along with the small island in the lake, would facilitate an expansions to the Orangutan expansions. High arboreal lines similar to Perth and Aukland Zoo. The First elephant enclosure, with the largest pool, would accomodate a species of Tapir, ideally Malayan, however this is unlikely. Another species we have given up on because of health problems partly caused by inadequate enclosures. Bairds Tapir, are more likely replacement. They could them completely redevelop the 2nd enclosure, which is the largest. Possibly for Komodo dragon and binturong. Tapir may get along with the Orangutans, I have been to many zoo where they live together. They could retain some of the barns, or even the one in the 3rd paddock for the tapir. There could be a smaller binturong enclosure built, or possibly renovating the squirrel monkey at forest havest, to make it look no like a prison cell, with glass. The squirrel monkeys are likely going to pass on soon as they are elderly individuals. Overall this could be an effective area, whilst to completely domilisihng everything, it may also be quite cost effective, when compared to other options. They may also choose not just Asian primates possibly spider monkey. If they didn't the tree top apes and monkey could have renovation to incorporate a 3 large enclosures for spider monkey, cotton top tamarin and emperor tamarin. Colobus could move into the mandrill enclosure, and possibly an expansion of the hippos. There is now 3 colobus the already cramped enclosure could be bigger.
You have some great ideas for Forest of Wonder.
The tapir species would certainly be Brazilian, as these are the focus species of the region and we’ve had reports Melbourne intend to import a breeding pair.
Time is certainly on Li-lian’s side from a biological perspective. The species can breed as early as 6-8 years as you can say, with the 10-12 years more indicative of zoos choosing to delay pairing-breeding until that age.
Isidor (1983) is the male Siamang by the way; and Sampit (1997), the female. Though they form monogamous pairs, they can certainly be re-paired if one passes.
What does concern me is that Li-lian has failed to breed with two mates now, which suggests there may be an underlying issue - whether that’s infertility (including social fertility - behavioural non-breeder); or whether it’s as simple as the exhibit design not affording her sufficient privacy is unknown. A new exhibit will certainly eliminate the possibility of the latter; though given the standard of exhibits throughout the region in the 20th century (with breeding occurring without issue), I’m doubtful that’s the stand-alone cause.
How can this be? The barrier keeps the visitors meters back from the glass and the glass is a privacy glass ie. the gibbons can't see back through it?
I've always thought the Japanese Island would be perfect for White Cheeked Gibbons, and Li Lian especially. The exhibit itself rarely has visitors and it's dense foliage and layout would enable adequate privacy that her current exhibit doesn't provide.
Isidor is the male and Sampit is the female. Saimangs have been known to live into their late 40's, however Isidor is now considered 'elderly'. An Orangutan/Saimang expansion in the future may hopefully allow them to accommodate the current younger pair and additional Saimang (such as Sampit) eventually.
I really hope they go through with it. A new primate exhibit for orangs and gibbons with aerial high ropes especially if done right I.e over visitor areas would be such a fantastic exhibit and draw card.
With the elephants vacating there space. It's a chance for the zoo to do a completely new redesign and create something quite nice. Gibbons and oramgs are popular species as well.
austrlain zoo gower
Well-Known Member
The barrier only covers the 3/4 of the middle section of the window, guest can still get up to the sides of the glass. The animals can still see slightly through the glass. Hence why she was up so close, when a keeper who she was working with. I confirmed this with a keeper. I was told in person that they get the same view as us. I mostly interacted with the keeper, where the mesh is on the left side of the enclosure as you exit TTAAM. Hence how I got this photo. Not many people stop to look at this area. The Japanese island would suit these animals very well. From what I have seen and heard, the Tree top apes enclosures lack proper back of house facilities. So the arrival of offspring may not be seen as that good of a scenario for that enclosure . That is why they would be better in the Japanese garden, where there is a place guest cannot see them along with more dense foliage.
I have to agree, it is a bit weird, I am sure the zoo would no by now that she is infertile, whether that be physical, social or behavioural. I don't think the zoo would seperate a pair, unless there was some reason. Hopefully she can breed in the future.
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Are you sure about that? It must be a fairly new update if that is the case, it wasn't like that when I visited a few months back. Also the privacy glass 100% doesn't give them the same view as us. They can't see back through it.
I have noticed her and the male especially tend to hang out on the mesh on the boardwalk side of the exhibit.
austrlain zoo gower
Well-Known Member
When I saw the keeper, she made made me aware, that it is in fact not privacy glass, but rather a wallpaper like covering that goes on the glass. The animals can still tell that there are people behind the glass, but not in very much detail. I enquired after the gibbons came up to the glass when the keeper was there, I was originally under the same impression as you @Jambo. I belive it was added as she is now more comfortable with guests, I was told by the keeper, as the area that is fenced off has shrunk, whether it stays like that I don't know.
It’s a great opportunity to expand the Sumatran orangutan facilities to support breeding. It would elevate the species from being an exhibit people stop to look at and then move on to being a draw card in its own right.
Ideally the new orangutan/s sourced would be of sufficient genetic value to ensure they were recommended for transfer to other zoos; but even a less valuable pair in an expanded exhibit could have offspring at 7-8 year intervals, with those offspring then retained.
austrlain zoo gower
Well-Known Member
@Zoofan15
I found the article
Rare gibbon survives at Perth Zoo
She was raised by hand, abandoned by her mother. This may explain difficulty breeding. This may also by why she has strong opinions on different keepers, she either likes you or she doesn't the keeper told me.
I found the article
Rare gibbon survives at Perth Zoo
She was raised by hand, abandoned by her mother. This may explain difficulty breeding. This may also by why she has strong opinions on different keepers, she either likes you or she doesn't the keeper told me.