European (Tea)Cup - League B - Budapest vs Antwerp & Planckendael

[TeaLovingDave]

Both competitors in this match have yet to meet with success so far within the Cup, but for one of them this dry spell will soon end - with the category determining *which* comes out the victor being BIRDS, and therefore providing plenty of scope for discussion and debate!

Hopefully you will all find this category and match-up a interesting one

 

[EliasNys]

Possibly antwerp's best category: lots of pheasantries scattered around the park, the Buffalo voliere, the hippo voliere, the bird house, the macaw aviaries, the penguin pavilion... And if I remember well of some birds Antwerp Is the only holder in Europe/the world. Planckendael on the other hand has lots of beautiful aviaries such as the vulture aviaries near the entrance and the walkthrough europa aviary. In the Indonesian greenhouse they also have lots of rare birds, and there are 2 smaller Asian aviaries and 1 more Australian aviary when you reach the cassowary. The Africa zone has a rare ostrich species if I remember well and I think there is another aviary in the Africa part too but not sure... they also have a beautiful walkthrough penguin/Ibis beach, some more macaw in the south American zone and probably lots more. And there are plenty of smaller exhibits I didn't mention... Once again a 5/0 is possible but I really don't know Budapest well so I might change in favour of Budapest if someone wants to defend them.

 

[Penshet]

Indeed the strongest category for Antwerp/Planckendael, but a 5-0 vote for them is a bit excessive I think. Budapest, while lacking any great bird exhibits, has a sizeable collection and decent exhibits.

For me it's between 3-2 and 4-1 for the Belgian zoos. Until someone makes the case for Budapest, I'll stay at 4-1.

 

[Kalaw]

Have been to Antwerp once, but never to Planckendael or Budapest.

Even with the interior of the Bird House closed, birds struck me as one of the zoo’s strong suits. As a lover of pelecaniformes, the Buffalo Savannah may be one of my all-time favourite zoo exhibits - never seen such large numbers of them, of so many different species, allowed to engage in prolonged flight for that long, and the fact that it is a space-efficient repurposing of a former rhino stable makes it even more charming. Equally memorable was seeing King Penguins diving - the all-indoor Antarctic penguin enclosure in the Aquarium isn’t amazing, but it isn’t bad either, and the pool is one of only two in Europe in which I have seen prolonged diving and proposing taking place.

I also loved the old Pheasantry near the Ape House. Compared to other similar exhibits from the same era, it has aged much better from an animal welfare perspective. The small native species aviaries opposite the gorillas were even more delightful. Plenty of other smaller aviaries throughout, with the free-fliers towards the end of the Reptile House and the macaws near the hippos particularly standing out to me. Although the Bird House itself was closed, the outdoor aviaries were still visible and struck me as quite spacious and nicely done; the indoors looks quite interesting from photos, among the best in Europe from what I have heard. The African Penguin enclosure near the gorillas was also closed for renovation. The only possible weakness at Antwerp? The flight-restricted flamingos in an open-topped enclosure near the entrance.

Quite a bit has changed since my visit - the reopening of the Bird House, the temporary (?) closure of the very nice Hippo House aviary, and the repurposing of the Harbour Seal pool for ducks, as well as sturgeons.

Overall, Antwerp is really strong here, and as it seems as though Planckendael can add more to this impressive roster, I will be voting 4-1 to the KMDA. May change if more information about Budapest can be provided.

 

[snowleopard]

I have not been to Budapest, but the Antwerp/Planckendael combination is very strong indeed. I'll score it 4-1 for the Belgian duo unless I can be convinced otherwise.

Here are a few highlights:

Bird House at Antwerp:

@KevinB

Hippo House aviary at Antwerp:

@KevinB

Amazing, gorgeous Cape Buffalo Savanna Aviary at Antwerp:

@Dianamonkey

The 1878 Rotunda and African Penguin exhibit at Antwerp:

@Dianamonkey

The sub-Antarctic penguin exhibit in the Vriesland building at Antwerp:

@KevinB

The huge Vulture Aviary at Planckendael is superb (and it can be seen from the parking lot):

@KevinB

The massive Humboldt Penguin/Chilean Flamingo walk-through aviary at Planckendael, which also includes perhaps 10 other species, is world-class.

 

[twilighter]

Budapest collection is not to be underestimated. They have few big aviaries for Eurasian Gryphon Vulture, Eastern Gray Crowned Crane, Parrots and Ibises. "Great Lake", specially designed for a big collection of Waterfowls, Gray Herons, Cormorants and Pelicans. South America Aviary. Free flying birds at South East Asia House. More birds at Australian house, Palm House and Madagascar house. African Passerines, like Southern Red Bishop at the Savanna House and Marabou at the Savanna. Historical Greater Flamingo and Jackass Penguin exhibits next to the Big Rock and Small Rocks. Bataleur Eagle, Walkthrough Emu / Kangaroo exhibit, Southern cassowary, Kea Aviary and more.

Antwerp and Planckendael quality is superior, with previously mentioned great signature exhibits, but it feels a bit cheap to me of giving only 1 point to a zoo with 150+ bird taxa and some pretty solid exhibits. I will vote 3:2.

 

[EliasNys]

Budapest collection is not to be underestimated. They have few big aviaries for Eurasian Gryphon Vulture, Eastern Gray Crowned Crane, Parrots and Ibises. "Great Lake", specially designed for a big collection of Waterfowls, Gray Herons, Cormorants and Pelicans. South America Aviary. Free flying birds at South East Asia House. More birds at Australian house, Palm House and Madagascar house. African Passerines, like Southern Red Bishop at the Savanna House and Marabou at the Savanna. Historical Greater Flamingo and Jackass Penguin exhibits next to the Big Rock and Small Rocks. Bataleur Eagle, Walkthrough Emu / Kangaroo exhibit, Southern cassowary, Kea Aviary and more.

Antwerp and Planckendael quality is superior, with previously mentioned great signature exhibits, but it feels a bit cheap to me of giving only 1 point to a zoo with 150+ bird taxa and some pretty solid exhibits. I will vote 3:2.

It seems like I might have given too much points to the KMDA then. I'll adjust it in favour of Budapest, to 3 points for the KMDA.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I'd be interested to hear the reasoning for the Budapest-slanted votes cast by @Dylan , @pipaluk and (given how heavily Budapest-slanted their vote was) @Nile Hippo Expert - perhaps one or all of you may be able to encourage others to change their vote in your direction, or indeed incite more people to vote full stop?

 

[Nile Hippo Expert]

I'd be interested to hear the reasoning for the Budapest-slanted votes cast by @Dylan , @pipaluk and (given how heavily Budapest-slanted their vote was) @Nile Hippo Expert - perhaps one or all of you may be able to encourage others to change their vote in your direction, or indeed incite more people to vote full stop?

Is it possible for my vote to be removed and uncounted for entirely? I wasn't intending to vote in this poll anyway, it was an accidental press. If so, can you please remove it?

 

[cornu aspersum]

Is it possible for my vote to be removed and uncounted for entirely? I wasn't intending to vote in this poll anyway, it was an accidental press. If so, can you please remove it?

If you press the 'Change Your Vote' option, it'll be removed.

 

[Nile Hippo Expert]

If you press the 'Change Your Vote' option, it'll be removed.

Nope, you are forced to pick a choice or else your old vote will remain. Tried pressing change then exiting the thread several times and it still says I voted 4-1 for Budapest.

 

[lintworm]

For starters the KMDA parks combined have some 50 more bird species compared to Budapest (though I suspect that Buda

Each opponent has a sizable bird collection, but whereas I can think of multiple exhibits in Antwerp & Planckendael that I think are really good. I can hardly come up with a single memorable bird exhibit in Budapest.

The only one that really comes to mind is the vulture walkthrough near the small rock:

@lintworm

The South-American aviary with a group of macaws (and squirrel monkeys) is also quite nice:

@Tomek

And I have some nice memories on the free-flying birds in the South-American greenhouse complex:

@lintworm

But for the rest it isn't all that impressive. Whereas Antwerp has the historical bird house, the historic aviary complex with the African penguin & waders, the buffalo aviary, swamp aviary and the Antarctic penguin exhibit. Planckendael has the flamingo & penguin exhibit and more high quality aviaries in other parts of the zoo. Some extra Antwerp pictures:

Antarctic penguins:

Bird house - South American aviary

View towards the Mediterranean aviary of the bird house:

African aviary in the bird house:

Aviary for mostly Australian finches (used to hold macaws):

@KevinB

Another view in the buffalo aviary

European wader aviary:

@KevinB

The former raptor aviaries have been relocated and renovated an now house mainly parrots:

@KevinB

 

[Lafone]

I have only been to Budapest but really enjoying the pictures.

Are those houses overlooking the aviary in the last picture above? Makes me want to live there let alone visit!

Penguins look excellent for the pair and I really like the use of the historical aviaries and spaces. I am partial to a walled garden aviary / traditional aviary look and when they are additionally spacious and well planted that's a win. A lot of the exhibits pictured would stand up and be highlights anywhere. Great looking vultures too. Looks like you could spend a day on birds at both zoos which is a wonderful thing.

3/2 Antwerp and Planckendael for me though as although it's a win I do think the Vulture walkthrough at Budapest and free flight birds there merit more than a single point.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Is it possible for my vote to be removed and uncounted for entirely? I wasn't intending to vote in this poll anyway, it was an accidental press. If so, can you please remove it?

Yes, it's extremely easy for someone to accidentally enter the thread, accidentally press the button to choose a vote, accidentally press the other button to confirm their vote, and then accidentally forget to mention the fact they didn't intend to vote until called out for an explanation of said vote - and conversely, I imagine it is extremely difficult and unlikely that someone might (as a shot in the dark) vote against the collection which recently ceased to keep Nile Hippopotamus and vote in favour of the collection which still keeps the species despite this having zero bearing on the category in question, in the hope that enough information would be provided for them to justify their vote retrospectively

But yes, I'll disregard your vote when it comes to the final tally

 

[Nile Hippo Expert]

Yes, it's extremely easy for someone to accidentally enter the thread, accidentally press the button to choose a vote, accidentally press the other button to confirm their vote, and then accidentally forget to mention the fact they didn't intend to vote until called out for an explanation of said vote - and conversely, I imagine it is extremely difficult and unlikely that someone might (as a shot in the dark) vote against the collection which recently ceased to keep Nile Hippopotamus and vote in favour of the collection which still keeps the species despite this having zero bearing on the category in question, in the hope that enough information would be provided for them to justify their vote retrospectively

But yes, I'll disregard your vote when it comes to the final tally

I thought that pressing “change my vote” once I noticed the category was actually for birds would remove my vote, I didn’t realize that my vote hadn’t actually been removed until you called me out. Either way, thank you for removing it as that was my intention from the moment I realized.

 

[Great Argus]

I thought that pressing “change my vote” once I noticed the category was actually for birds

Implying you voted without reading the title of the poll, the opening post, or indeed potentially the rules of the game at all... not exactly how one should be voting in any sort of poll.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Despite a minor degree of apparent voting in poor faith - which has been disregarded from the final totals per the above discussion - the match went pretty smoothly with a definitive result in favour of the Belgian duo:

Budapest - 45/130 points - 34.615%
Antwerp & Planckendael - 85/130 points - 65.385%
.