Australasian Western Lowland Gorilla Population

[Tiger91]

I do see your reasoning - put plainly you don’t see the point in risking one of the last viable females in the region with Otana.

To be fair, none of us really know the exact situation and there are a few facts at hand that we can base our assumptions on. That is that Melbourne have had the opportunity to breed/import yet haven't for some reason or another. Otana seems to be the simplest explanation for both for reasons previously stated.

I also don’t see why Taronga would be willing to offload their only viable female when they won’t likely get Kanzi in return. No breeding at Taronga will occur anyway until the young males are moved out and at the present time there’s not an obvious facility regionally that will take them on which is a slight concern.

Exactly!.
Taronga need to either build the gorilla forrest they were planning with two exhibits that can hold the boys and any other bachelor males born. Or they could invest in building an island type exhibit for them out at western plains zoo. It doesn't need to be a fancy/expensive exhibit to start. But just having them out there would greatly enhance western plains zoo as well as very soon they will have no great apes.

 

[Zoofan15]

Exactly!.
Taronga need to either build the gorilla forrest they were planning with two exhibits that can hold the boys and any other bachelor males born. Or they could invest in building an island type exhibit for them out at western plains zoo. It doesn't need to be a fancy/expensive exhibit to start. But just having them out there would greatly enhance western plains zoo as well as very soon they will have no great apes.

Although there’s no possibility of Taronga acquiring Okapi now, I’d still be in favour of them building a Congo precinct featuring gorillas (which in any case were planned to be the main attraction).

Due to the global surplus of males, more and more zoos are going to have to look at accomodating their own surplus and there otherwise appears to be little demand regionally in Taronga’s adolescent males.

 

[Jambo]

Exactly!.
Taronga need to either build the gorilla forrest they were planning with two exhibits that can hold the boys and any other bachelor males born. Or they could invest in building an island type exhibit for them out at western plains zoo. It doesn't need to be a fancy/expensive exhibit to start. But just having them out there would greatly enhance western plains zoo as well as very soon they will have no great apes.

Ultimately Taronga are going to have to find a solution sooner rather than later. They really don't want to leave it too late as the construction of new habitats could take years potentially and we don't know how long the current males are going to be able to stay in the group for.

They do have the second smaller annex exhibit but this would be inadequate for holding the three boys.

 

[Tiger91]

Ultimately Taronga are going to have to find a solution sooner rather than later. They really don't want to leave it too late as the construction of new habitats could take years potentially and we don't know how long the current males are going to be able to stay in the group for.

They do have the second smaller annex exhibit but this would be inadequate for holding the three boys.

I wonder if the old siamang exhibits could be refurbed for the gorillas, though I imagine that would be to small. But even an old cage style exhibit or mesh covered one would be relatively easy to construct in a more time efficient way.
But I may be being biased, I have wanted gorillas out at western plains zoo for years. I think they would fit great out there!.

 

[Zoofan15]

I wonder if the old siamang exhibits could be refurbed for the gorillas, though I imagine that would be to small. But even an old cage style exhibit or mesh covered one would be relatively easy to construct in a more time efficient way.
But I may be being biased, I have wanted gorillas out at western plains zoo for years. I think they would fit great out there!.

I’m tempted to say they’d be too small, but it’s a large site with countless alternatives to where they could be accommodated.

I agree it’s baffling that Taronga Western Plains Zoo has been open since 1976 and is yet to hold a species of great ape. There were plans to acquire chimpanzees in the early 1990’s (a bachelor troop), but this never eventuated.

 

[Tiger91]

Although there’s no possibility of Taronga acquiring Okapi now, I’d still be in favour of them building a Congo precinct featuring gorillas (which in any case were planned to be the main attraction).

Due to the global surplus of males, more and more zoos are going to have to look at accomodating their own surplus and there otherwise appears to be little demand regionally in Taronga’s adolescent males.

Gorillas are one of there most popular species, that plus pygmy hippos and you have two of there main species that can be put together. Any new precinct will have them. Instead of a new precinct id rather they just focus on building a precinct by building newer enclosures that are close by and do it over time.

 

[Zoofan15]

Gorillas are one of there most popular species, that plus pygmy hippos and you have two of there main species that can be put together. Any new precinct will have them. Instead of a new precinct id rather they just focus on building a precinct by building newer enclosures that are close by and do it over time.

Great apes (especially gorillas) are huge draw cards, never more so when the troop has an infant, thought the majestic silverbacks never fail to generate visitor engagement. Taronga should definitely consider in investing in the infrastructure needed to manage two groups of this species long term; similar to how they have five Sumatran tiger exhibits to manage another of their most popular species.

 

[Jambo]

I wonder if the old siamang exhibits could be refurbed for the gorillas, though I imagine that would be to small. But even an old cage style exhibit or mesh covered one would be relatively easy to construct in a more time efficient way.
But I may be being biased, I have wanted gorillas out at western plains zoo for years. I think they would fit great out there!.

Saimang Islands would be far too small! I've always thought they were even too small for the Saimangs imo.

Gorillas are one of there most popular species, that plus pygmy hippos and you have two of there main species that can be put together. Any new precinct will have them. Instead of a new precinct id rather they just focus on building a precinct by building newer enclosures that are close by and do it over time.

I honestly think now Taronga is weighing up whether a new Congo precinct is even worth investing in. If the young males can be offloaded elsewhere than there's really no need to build the Congo precinct now since the current complex is still adequate for the small group they have.

 

[Tiger91]

Saimang Islands would be far too small! I've always thought they were even too small for the Saimangs imo.

I honestly think now Taronga is weighing up whether a new Congo precinct is even worth investing in. If the young males can be offloaded elsewhere than there's really no need to build the Congo precinct now since the current complex is still adequate for the small group they have.

Rather unfortunate the siamang enclosures are to small.
It'll be interesting to see what they do, Taronga have said previously that they want to build purpose built pygmy hippos exhibits. And I have heard from keepers last time I was there last year that they were wanting to upgrade the gorilla enclosure. But that's also been said for years.
Taronga should be due for a release soonish of future plans, the last lot have just about been finished. So a new collection plan should come soon. It will be interesting to see what they do, especially now the elephants are going.
Personally id like to see a new gorilla enclosure encompassing some of the steeper terrain around the current enclosure. They are a species that would benefit from traversing some of it. While letting them use what was once considered unusable space.

 

[Zoofan15]

Rather unfortunate the siamang enclosures are to small.
It'll be interesting to see what they do, Taronga have said previously that they want to build purpose built pygmy hippos exhibits. And I have heard from keepers last time I was there last year that they were wanting to upgrade the gorilla enclosure. But that's also been said for years.
Taronga should be due for a release soonish of future plans, the last lot have just about been finished. So a new collection plan should come soon. It will be interesting to see what they do, especially now the elephants are going.
Personally id like to see a new gorilla enclosure encompassing some of the steeper terrain around the current enclosure. They are a species that would benefit from traversing some of it. While letting them use what was once considered unusable space.

It would be nice to see a revised masterplan for Taronga Zoo considering it’s been a decade since one was last released. Zoos SA by comparison have been very open about their plans, which has been fascinating to get an insight into.

Taronga’s gorilla exhibit was outdated from the beginning, due to being redeveloped in haste. It’s hard to imagine a troop of ten gorillas once inhabited that exhibit - with offspring than born in 1998 (the first surviving infants weren’t born until 2003, when two of the original troop had returned to Europe).

 

[Jambo]

Rather unfortunate the siamang enclosures are to small.
It'll be interesting to see what they do, Taronga have said previously that they want to build purpose built pygmy hippos exhibits. And I have heard from keepers last time I was there last year that they were wanting to upgrade the gorilla enclosure. But that's also been said for years.
Taronga should be due for a release soonish of future plans, the last lot have just about been finished. So a new collection plan should come soon. It will be interesting to see what they do, especially now the elephants are going.
Personally id like to see a new gorilla enclosure encompassing some of the steeper terrain around the current enclosure. They are a species that would benefit from traversing some of it. While letting them use what was once considered unusable space.

The new Sky Safari extension is really the last project left from Taronga's last masterplan; with the exception of the Congo precinct which appears all but scrapped.

With the Hippo IRA now complete, this would be the perfect time to upgrade their current facilities before acquiring further individuals. I too have always believed the current exhibits are rather small - they were designed for Malayan Tapirs too so not specifically tailored to Pygmy Hippos which is noticeable.

 

[Tiger91]

The new Sky Safari extension is really the last project left from Taronga's last masterplan; with the exception of the Congo precinct which appears all but scrapped.

With the Hippo IRA now complete, this would be the perfect time to upgrade their current facilities before acquiring further individuals. I too have always believed the current exhibits are rather small - they were designed for Malayan Tapirs too so not specifically tailored to Pygmy Hippos which is noticeable.

It was even mentioned on who's who in the zoo that the pools were not really adequate. If they built up some nice exhibits for the hippos, chucked in some colobus and redid the gorillas it would be a watered down Congo area. But one they could build in parts instead of tearing a large part of the zoo up all in one go.
As far as Gorillas, having two on display exhibits where they can rotate the breeding troop and a bachelor troop would be a great improvement.
I wonder what the success rate would be if they did go down this route. Whether they would be able to integrate any young black back males into the bachelor group over time. Or whether it's a more rigid what goes in t the begging stays.

 

[Zoofan15]

It was even mentioned on who's who in the zoo that the pools were not really adequate. If they built up some nice exhibits for the hippos, chucked in some colobus and redid the gorillas it would be a watered down Congo area. But one they could build in parts instead of tearing a large part of the zoo up all in one go.
As far as Gorillas, having two on display exhibits where they can rotate the breeding troop and a bachelor troop would be a great improvement.
I wonder what the success rate would be if they did go down this route. Whether they would be able to integrate any young black back males into the bachelor group over time. Or whether it's a more rigid what goes in t the begging stays.

From what I’ve observed overseas, young male gorillas can be integrated into existing bachelor troops containing older males. It’s highly dependent on personalities and zoos with a stable bachelor troop are likely reluctant to rock the boat; but it can certainly work.

I’ve often thought sending Taronga’s adolescent males to Orana could be a good idea long term.

 

[Jambo]

It was even mentioned on who's who in the zoo that the pools were not really adequate. If they built up some nice exhibits for the hippos, chucked in some colobus and redid the gorillas it would be a watered down Congo area. But one they could build in parts instead of tearing a large part of the zoo up all in one go.
As far as Gorillas, having two on display exhibits where they can rotate the breeding troop and a bachelor troop would be a great improvement.
I wonder what the success rate would be if they did go down this route. Whether they would be able to integrate any young black back males into the bachelor group over time. Or whether it's a more rigid what goes in t the begging stays.

With the colobus breeding program seemingly taking off again, I would love to see Colubus's at Taronga! As I said, once they complete the Sky Safari renovations this project will likely be the next they consider. I'd be surprised if we got to the end of this decade without a firm answer - to my understand right now they're still weighing it all up with other priorities right now (such as the Sky safari).

Blackbacks can be introduced into established groups although it really all depends on personalities at the end of the day. For example, both the USA and Europe do this fairly often (as it's just too much to accomodate multiple bachelor groups, cost wise and space wise). Most of the time there's minimal issues from what I've seen so it's certainly something that can be done.

 

[Tiger91]

From what I’ve observed overseas, young male gorillas can be integrated into existing bachelor troops containing older males. It’s highly dependent on personalities and zoos with a stable bachelor troop are likely reluctant to rock the boat; but it can certainly work.

I’ve often thought sending Taronga’s adolescent males to Orana could be a good idea long term.

Orana do have a second exhibit sitting empty currently.

 

[Zoofan15]

Orana do have a second exhibit sitting empty currently.

It’s currently used for Siamang due to their exhibit no longer meeting containment requirements, but they could be housed elsewhere in the zoo; and the two exhibits used to manage an introduction of the two bachelor troops.

After all, it is called the Great Ape Centre - not the half Great Ape; half Lesser Ape Centre.

 

[Tiger91]

With the colobus breeding program seemingly taking off again, I would love to see Colubus's at Taronga! As I said, once they complete the Sky Safari renovations this project will likely be the next they consider. I'd be surprised if we got to the end of this decade without a firm answer - to my understand right now they're still weighing it all up with other priorities right now (such as the Sky safari).

Blackbacks can be introduced into established groups although it really all depends on personalities at the end of the day. For example, both the USA and Europe do this fairly often (as it's just too much to accomodate multiple bachelor groups, cost wise and space wise). Most of the time there's minimal issues from what I've seen so it's certainly something that can be done.

With the cost of the sky safari and current political climate. I wouldn't be surprised to see any majour changes shelved, for a few years. Colobus would also suit taronga quite well.

That would make Taronga having two exhibits def worth while. They could retain any males that are unable to be placed and breed more freely. Which in the last few years is an issue hampering them.

 

[Zoofan15]

With the cost of the sky safari and current political climate. I wouldn't be surprised to see any majour changes shelved, for a few years. Colobus would also suit taronga quite well.

That would make Taronga having two exhibits def worth while. They could retain any males that are unable to be placed and breed more freely. Which in the last few years is an issue hampering them.

While Hari the Indian rhinoceros will be a direct replacement for the Asian elephants, Taronga will still need to give consideration to investing in renewal projects to maintain their prestige as one of Sydney’s top visitor attractions.

Sydney Zoo has gone from strength since their opening, so Taronga would be wise to consolidate on their points of difference - namely gorillas; and while they’re at the height of popularity, Pygmy hippopotamus. Investing in the infrastructure to breed both these species would be a good call imo.

 

[Jambo]

That would make Taronga having two exhibits def worth while. They could retain any males that are unable to be placed and breed more freely. Which in the last few years is an issue hampering them.

Our region currently has two bachelor troops. Werribee's exhibit specifically is designed for a much larger bachelor troop than they have right now but there's really been no surplus males born regionally that would need placement there as of yet.

Taronga's young males, as has been discussed, would be better off at Orana where they can be integrated with their duo who could do with additional individuals to balance out the troop dynamics.

 

[Zoofan15]

Our region currently has two bachelor troops. Werribee's exhibit specifically is designed for a much larger bachelor troop than they have right now but there's really been no surplus males born regionally that would need placement there as of yet.

Taronga's young males, as has been discussed, would be better off at Orana where they can be integrated with their duo who could do with additional individuals to balance out the troop dynamics.

I’ve often thought that Werribee’s sizeable gorilla exhibit (2.5 acres) is greatly under-utilised by the three males they have. With them ageing, it would be challenging to introduce further males now. Whether it would have been possible to have introduced the first batch of Taronga bachelors (Fataki, Fuzu and Mahali) is difficult to say. The oldest was only three years apart from Ganyeka; though 20 years Motaba’s junior.

Had Motaba not been in the equation, it may have worked; then Motaba could have formed a non-breeding troop with Julia and G-Anne at Orana instead circa 2013. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!