Basically to start with I think as in other contests for ZSL , this comes down to what Whipsnade has to save them from a hammering.
If this was Beauval v London it would be comfortably 4-1 Beauval possibly 5-0. London's tiger exhibit is probably a bit better than Beauval's.
ZSL particularly London Zoo are just vastly overrated. London barely a top 10 zoo in the UK, Whipsnade certainly top 5, maybe top 3 but not a certainty much above that!
This very much makes it seem like you are voting against the ZSL collections because London could not beat Beauval alone (in one comment you even threw in that ZSL London couldn't beat it in any category, which again is irrelevant) and you don't think it is fair that a second collection gets thrown in to help it out. However, this was
@TeaLovingDave's entire point of grouping the two ZSL collections together as he wanted to give the historic ZSL zoos a shot at competing and I think this line of voting is not truly sticking to the bonds of the competition. There are several other comments throughout the thread that seem fit into this theme.
There are also, just a lot of comments here that make it appear that you are just trying to brush aside the positives of both ZSL collections, because you appear to really like Beauval overall and not necessarily just as it relates to this category. For example, you said something along the lines of "Beauval has African Elephants in a better enclosure than Whipsnade's Asians, even though they don't count". This very much sounds like you are trying to justify reasoning that Whipsnade having an excellent Asian Elephant exhibit is almost cancelled out by Beauval having a similar, but non-category relevant, species in a better one. Honestly, I don't necessarily disagree with this reasoning if we were comparing the zoos a whole, but we are not and the African Elephants are firmly outside the scope of this specific category. Another example of this seems to be with discounting London for the theming that is in Land of the Lions, but saying others are overly biased against Beauval for not liking that same type of thing.
London has the 2 loris species in the nocturnal area but nothing else.
I think trying to claim the main walkthrough of the Blackburn pavillion as Asia is pushing it as at most 50% of species are Asian and Beauval has a bigger and in my opinion better bird house (perhaps not as historically significant) with free roaming chevrotain.
The invertebrate house and new reptile house cannot be claimed as a whole as Asian and all the exhibits for those species are at least as good at Beauval or better. By this count does the whole tropical dome count as Asia because some species are?
As others have said, no one is arguing these are Asia specific areas, but it is perfectly justified to take into account the Asian species held within them, the exhibits they are held in, and the complexes as a whole in terms of other relevant information that they provide and with saying that, it is absolutely just as justified to take into account similar situations in Beauval.
Land of the Lions - theming alone(hated by many including
@TeaLovingDave )worth minus one point meaning London alone scores nil!
Small Indian mongoose - this is a bit of a bonus for London but again theming make the exhibit awful.
Ruppells griffon vulture aren't Asian but in an Indian themed area -another black mark.
Someone else finally addressed this also up thread, but people are way too critical of theming here as they seem to automatically equate it to being a "bad exhibit" and this is not true in the case of Land of the Lions. Take away the "theming" aspect of this complex and most (all?) of the exhibits are still quite good. This was argued over extensively in another round of this competition involving ZSL (ZSL vs. Berlin? maybe) and no one could actually explain to me what was wrong with the exhibits and most people actually agreed that the exhibits themselves were good exhibits, but the theming detracted from it. I can understand the second way of thinking, but your statements here seem very dismissive of the exhibits as a whole just because of the theming and ignores that quality of the exhibits themselves. To me, theming becomes "bad" when it becomes clear that money was spent on the guest experience at the expense of the animals or is over the top. While I can see the an argument for over the top being applied to LotL, the first one doesn't hold much water for me. In my opinion, the theming in Land of the Lions is quite well done and it is very unique compared to all other Asian themed zones out there with there "Ancient Temples".
I think too that if arguing the prices for a family of four on the train it's hard to sustain an argument about it having less than it used to so not being worth it...lots of infrequent visitors won't know or indeed mind (though us regulars would!).
This is an excellent point. I have often found (and have been guilty of it myself) on here that people are often overly critical of their home zoos because they remember "how great it used to be" and "miss the good ole days", but this comes at the expense of seeing the zoo for what it is now and how great it still is. As a new visitor to these places that has no idea about what they used to be like, I almost always fail to see what people are talking about as I just see it for what it is now. I used to be this way with my home/childhood zoo, the Minnesota Zoo, but my zoo travels have allowed me to gain new perspective and see it for what it is. ZSL London is still a very good zoo and while it may not compete with the true behemoths of the European zoo landscape on its own anymore, it is still a very good zoo.
and where are the Malayan Tapir any more at this so superior ZSL?
As others have said, is one species really going to get you to change your vote? As I said above, this really feels like you are grasping at straws in order to discredit the ZSL collections in anyway you can because you really like Beauval. As others have also pointed out, many of the exhibits that you claim are "comparable" or "just a bit bigger in size" are not actually all that comparable when looking at photos of them and I can't say I'm any closer to switching over to 3-2 Beauval because of any of the arguments advanced here.
I agree that a 4-1 vote in either direction appears to be unjustified though.
