I like your wisdom . Also . Which zoo’s are exhibiting generics ? I’m assuming Sydney zoo and Mogo ?
Australasian Western Lowland Gorilla Population
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I like your wisdom . Also . Which zoo’s are exhibiting generics ? I’m assuming Sydney zoo and Mogo ?
The following zoos currenly exhibit generics; Australia, Ballarat, Dreamworld, Mogo, National, Sydney, Zambi.
Sydney and Ballarat are both examples of a facilities which previously held Sumatrans (albeit retired individuals) and have now resorted to holding generics.
Thank you.
I was referring to Sydney Zoo and Ballarat Wildlife Park, which both began with Sumatran tigers (the former also had a generic); and have since acquired generic tigers due to a reported lack of purebred Sumatran tigers in the region. It appears there were multiple breeding pairs at the time that could have been issued a repeat breeding recommendation to keep those spaces open for Sumatran tigers.
Tasmania Zoo and Darling Downs Zoo are another two smaller zoos with ageing tigers, that will soon see them at a crossroads.
In the case of Sydney, they luckily have ageing generics so within the next few years they should be able to take on some additional surplus cubs.
I think we can expect to see a regional rejuvenation with the Sumatran tigers too very soon. With a lot of ageing cats, there should be some imports of new breeding pairs soon and thus, more breeding recommendations and more cubs. A regional baby boom (like one we had in the late 2000's) would be awesome to have again.
Thank you for your reply . Disappointing to see how species are managed .. or in better words ; mismanaged . We have lost so many species to better focus on a select few ; only to run into issues such as inbreeding or cross breeding or restrictive imports .
Look what happened to our tigers , zebras and giraffes .
Many thanks to smaller zoos for their contributions for importing new species or purebred stock . Species that come to mind are the Grants (?) zebras , Maned wolf, Capybara and Mara .
Only wish that accredit zoos and breeding facilities are exempt from import restrictions to prevent regional extinctions . Spending what .. a few years on Hippopotamus and Ungulate IRA is a bit much IMO .
I certainly hope to see a rejuvenation of the regional Sumatran tiger population. Like you say, a number of the zoos have ageing tigers - including Perth, Melbourne, Tasmania, Dubbo, Wellington, Darling Downs, Dreamworld and Mogo for Sumatrans; and Sydney for generics.
I’m hopeful for some imports in the coming years - especially Taronga, who have a female intended for future breeding, but limited options without resorting to inbreeding. Auckland’s pair will ideally produce another litter, but they alone can’t sustain succession for the next couple of decades.
Just my opinion, but I feel the management of the numerous founders we imported as a region in the 2000’s could have been managed better. There was only two matches between founder to founder; only one of which produced offspring. Instead of producing a second litter with Ramalon, Binjai could have been paired with Oz etc
After doing research on the European population; partly fueled by my desire to be more familiar with the population in light of the possibility of Melbourne potentially importing additional females, I thought I'd highlight the following four pairs of females which are all really good options for import.
I made sure to select females that are mother raised (very important especially given the circumstances), are of adequate age to move out (more than eight years old at least) and also unrelated to the rest of the region population for genetic purposes.
Melbourne will also need to acquire a pair of females now, so them arriving from the same facility will place them in best stead come introductions and settling in (ie. they'll have each others support during those processes. This made it much easier to narrow down a few specific pairs based on the factors mentioned above.
Here's the four most suitable pairs;
Firstly, this pair of sisters from Frankfurt - both are unrelated to the regional population and additionally, both are mother raised.
0.1 Wela (15/09/2016) Viatu x Shira
0.1 Xetsa (01/03/2017) Viatu x Dian
Secondly, this pair from Liepzig - both are unrelated to the regional population and both are also mother raised.
0.1 Diara (11/03/2014) Abeeku x Kumili
0.1 Kianga (04/12/2016) Abeeku x Kibara
Thirdly, this pair of sisters from Barcelona - again, both are unrelated to the regional population and also mother raised.
0.1 Virunguita (03/05/2015) Ebobo x N’Tua
0.1 Yoko (02/09/2015) Ebobo x Batanga
Lastly, this pair of sisters from Hannover - both are unrelated to the regions 'breeding' population and both are mother raised. Both are offspring of Melbourne born male Buzandi, and therefore grand children of Motaba and Betsy. It would be quite fitting to have them come across to Melbourne.
0.1 Anandi (13/11/2015) Batouri x Kathrin
0.1 Tara (22/04/2017) Batouri x Melima
I made sure to select females that are mother raised (very important especially given the circumstances), are of adequate age to move out (more than eight years old at least) and also unrelated to the rest of the region population for genetic purposes.
Melbourne will also need to acquire a pair of females now, so them arriving from the same facility will place them in best stead come introductions and settling in (ie. they'll have each others support during those processes. This made it much easier to narrow down a few specific pairs based on the factors mentioned above.
Here's the four most suitable pairs;
Firstly, this pair of sisters from Frankfurt - both are unrelated to the regional population and additionally, both are mother raised.
0.1 Wela (15/09/2016) Viatu x Shira
0.1 Xetsa (01/03/2017) Viatu x Dian
Secondly, this pair from Liepzig - both are unrelated to the regional population and both are also mother raised.
0.1 Diara (11/03/2014) Abeeku x Kumili
0.1 Kianga (04/12/2016) Abeeku x Kibara
Thirdly, this pair of sisters from Barcelona - again, both are unrelated to the regional population and also mother raised.
0.1 Virunguita (03/05/2015) Ebobo x N’Tua
0.1 Yoko (02/09/2015) Ebobo x Batanga
Lastly, this pair of sisters from Hannover - both are unrelated to the regions 'breeding' population and both are mother raised. Both are offspring of Melbourne born male Buzandi, and therefore grand children of Motaba and Betsy. It would be quite fitting to have them come across to Melbourne.
0.1 Anandi (13/11/2015) Batouri x Kathrin
0.1 Tara (22/04/2017) Batouri x Melima
Anandi is particularly valuable genetically considering her mother is wild born; and to date has very few grandchildren. Her oldest offspring to survive to adulthood was London Zoo’s ill-fated silverback Yeboah, who produced one offspring that was killed by the replacement silverback.
If we assume due to their current situation that Melbourne Zoo are to import two females as a priority, then importing females unrelated to the regional population would pay dividends in the long run as it would allow female offspring sired by Orana to transfer to Taronga and Mogo’s troops, both of which could arguably hold out for another decade until new females are needed.
Kibabu and Otana are of no relation to each other; while Kisane is a distant relation to Kibabu:
Kisoro - Kibabu
Kisoro - Kijo - Kifu - Sanki - Kisane
Mogo has three adult females aged 45, 45 and 14 years old. Optimistically, at least one of the older females could still be alive a decade from now; and in the interim, what’s predicted to be a (newborn) female infant will be moving up to fill the gap. Within this in mind, not transferring in an additional female/females for another decade wouldn’t be the end of the world.
Taronga has three females aged 43, 25 and 22 years old. Assuming the survival of both younger females (and hopefully Frala) for the next decade would see the troop remain in a stable state, while similarly waiting for transfers from Melbourne.
Melbourne meanwhile could breed a succession of infants (at least 2-3 per female). Of those up to six infants, I’d statistically expect a minimum of two females (three or four would be better) to satisfy the above requirements of Taronga/Mogo; while anything up to four male infants would be fine to then join Otana in a bachelor troop. Especially if sizeable (Otana plus 3-4 sons), the natural move would be for this bachelor troop to transfer to the large exhibit at Werribee; with the remnants of Werribee’s bachelor troop returning to Melbourne.
I ensured all of the eight females listed above are all unrelated to the region's population of breeding gorillas; ie. the younger two are still related to the trio of boys at Werribee via Motaba, however those three aren't currently active within the breeding program.
Mogo have a really nice complex where they can afford to breed more often; and this can essentially only be achieved with additional females, especially as Kipenzi isn't the most valuable female.
Taronga's in an interesting position where Mbeli (their only viable female) is really 50/50 on receiving another breeding recommendation. She comes from two very well represented lines and really the only justification for allowing her to breed again would be in hope of a female offspring. Her three older brothers have fourteen surviving offspring between them, and that's not including the offspring of her older half sister Kriba!
Overall I wouldn't be surprised if Taronga just elect to hold off in the meantime. Kibali too comes from a well represented line so perhaps acquiring females from Melbourne a decade down the line will be Taronga's best bet. It would allow breeding to be focused at Melbourne and Mogo in the meantime.
I would certainly expect any new female imports to get a fair amount of breeding recommendations and relatively natural intervals (every four or five years). The Apenheul girls who were acquired in 1996, all breed twice, despite them already coming from well represented lines and being well represented as well.
Taronga holding off on breeding for the next decade would be a good move. Since Mbeli is their only breeding female, a single male infant during the next decade would be difficult to place in the future - having low genetic value within the region; and having no peers (unlike Mbeli’s older sons, who have Fabumi).
Aside from that, it’s important to consider the social dynamics of the troop. Once the adolescent males move out, none of the females will have offspring in the troop. Mbeli is already the favourite female and if she’s the only breeding female going forward, having offspring while Frala and Johari cannot will only compound that. For Frala’s sake, it would be preferable to hold off until more females arrive in 10-12 years, by which time she may not even be around.
Bar the tragic loss of her daughter, Frala has had a comfortable decade. She’s Kibale’s second favourite female and has had a son in the troop during this time to balance out the benefits Mbeli has received from producing two sons.
That's a good bit of painstaking research there...
Thank you - it was fairly easy to pin point specific females when you consider Melbourne would be;
A) looking for a pair of females still in their natal troop
B) females that are both parent reared and are at least eight years of age
C) unrelated to the other breeding individuals in the region
The results presented the four pairs I've listed above; alongside the pair of females at Blackpool and the trio at Rotterdam of which you've previously mentioned.
I was going to go more in depth genetics wise to try and see which of the pairs would be the most suitable for export - as I'd imagine the European region would be willing to send the most well represented females out, however I discovered all of the females listed above are all relatively well represented, so very good candidates for export to Australia.
It’s near certain Melbourne will bring in a pair of females from the same troop so as to give them support against Otana. I’m optimistic that any future introductions will go smoothly (even if he’s not a model silverback), considering he and Kimya were at least compatible in that they successfully bred and coexisted without issue until her death.
It would be interesting to see whether Kanzi transfers out to coincide with the arrival of new females. I assume she would considering she’s well and truly at dispersal age; and would be excluded from the bond shared by the other two females (in this scenario) assuming they come from the same natal troop (and will soon be breeding).
At Taronga at least, there’s no strong bonds between Frala, Mbeli and Johari; and Kanzi could easily take up a comfortable third ranking (ahead of the hand-raised Johari) before potentially overtaking Frala as and when she begins producing infants.
It's pretty much guaranteed - especially given Otana's past it's best that two females from the same natal troop arrive together to provide each other with support. It would certainly place them in good stead come introductions.
Now, following Kimya's passing, it's even more cemented. Two females will be required to replenish Melbourne's troop and provide Otana with two breeding females. If Kimya hadn't have passed, it's likely they would've still acquired two females. However it's possible they may have chosen to move one of them across to Taronga/Mogo once a few years had passed and the other female had settled in.
On Kanzi, I'd imagine she'd remain in the troop as a non breeding female. She has little value elsewhere as she's not genetically valuable. Taronga have little reason to acquire her due to their space constraints right now; and Mogo would preferably want an additional female to be one that would have breeding application there and not the niece of their current breeding female.
We can definitely rule out Mogo Wildlife Park as a destination for Kanzi, but I’m not optimistic of the chances of her remaining in Melbourne’s troop. Had her mother been alive/remained in the troop, they could have easily retained her as a non-breeding female and then brought in 1-2 females to breed. They’d enter the troop low ranking, but have the consolation of breeding/opportunity to progress. Kanzi by comparison will at best stagnate.
Taronga currently have 1.3 adults, plus 3.0 adolescents. Transitioning the adolescents into a bachelor troop (potentially even moving out of Taronga) would create room for Kanzi to move in. Mbeli would likely breed for a third time to allow Kanzi to witness the raising of offspring for the first time; with Kanzi ideally giving birth a few months later herself - allowing the opportunity for Mbeli to act as a surrogate should Kanzi reject her infant. These breeding plans could easily be delayed five years or so dependent on future plans for a new exhibit; as otherwise space constraints could become an issue - especially if the adolescents are unable to go elsewhere.
Kanzi likely would have been a low ranking female either way - and this is unfortunately the case with females like her of whom have little value breeding wise and then have to suffer the repercussions of not being able to breed and therefore boost their status within the group.
Silverbacks show favoring to the females that birth their offspring, especially those with male infants. I read a book about Lincoln Park's troop and it went into this in great detail - the group was essentially made up of females similar to Taronga's demographic wise. A new silverback plus two younger teenage females and then a female in her early 20's of whom had already breed. The two younger females were allowed to breed first to allow their rankings to boost. This left a sour taste in the mouth of the older female who was highly ambitious but just a few years later, she too was given the opportunity to breed and this boosted her status back up. Ultimately it also comes down to the individuals - some silverbacks just have favorites (like Kibali with Mbeli). I imagine she would also have a high ranking even if she didn't birth his sons.
From what I know about Kanzi, she isn't the most 'ambitious' female personality wise but to be fair, I don't think she's really grown up in a troop where this can be put to the test. She's effectively been the lowest ranking female for a while now, so there shouldn't be any problem with her remaining in that position within the troop. If the opportunity comes up to send her to Taronga to breed, by all means she should, but in the meantime she would be better off within Melbourne's troop, balancing the troops dynamics.
That’s a very interesting point regarding favourite females. Mbeli’s mother, Mouila, was Kibabu’s favourite female and Mbeli consequently enjoyed the benefits that came from being the offspring of the highest ranking female during her formative years. Whether that had any influence on her drive to secure her place as Kibali’s favourite female is debatable. Mbeli started with a lot of advantages. Initially it was just Mbeli and Johari introduced to Kibali (and the hand-raised female actively avoided him). By the time Frala was introduced to the newly formed troop, Mbeli was pregnant with what would become Kibali’s first offspring.
Frala was at a huge disadvantage in Kibabu’s troop; given Mouila, Kriba and their offspring formed the central clique. Frala was noted to have a brusque personality, which was theorised to be as a result of being excluded by the other females. She was abrupt with her offspring too, so it may have just been her personality. Frala was otherwise a mother-raised gorilla, with good social skills and Kibabu was noted to be protective of her following the births of her infants, ensuring the troop gave her space. Frala has fared even better in Kibali’s troop status wise - not the highest; not the lowest.
With regards to Kanzi’s ranking, she’s not yet reached the stage where she’s entered the hierarchy so to speak. From everything I’ve heard of her interactions (and the interactions of the troop in general), Otana doesn’t consider her one of his females, like he did Kimya, so she would certainly have ranked below her mother. Transferring out would surely motivate her to progress and make an effort with her new silverback.
It is a pretty unusual situation at Melbourne, now being reduced to one silverback and single daughter. When I think back to their heyday with a substantial group. I hope they can redress this soon. I suspect Otana would be good with new females if he's given the chance. I think most of his previous 'bad' behaviour was due to the females he lived with. Even with Kimya, being in a 1.1. situation with a single normally socialised female could create certain behaviours that may be atypical. e.g the female may avoid close contact more than usual due to not having the support of other females should an altercation arise.
Otana initially began with four females (Yuska, G-Anne, Julia and Kimya) and it was clear his relationship was stronger with Kimya at the beginning than what it was by the end of her life. Like you say, the inclusion of other females seemed to give her confidence (as well as motivation to build her bond with him) versus what could be interpreted as avoidance behaviour.
Kimya’s death was unexpected, but a timely reminder of the importance of planning for the unexpected, so as not to have females left alone for an extended period as Kanzi may be (assuming the solution here is to import). I honestly believe that adding two females to Otana’s troop and allowing them to have several infants in succession would benefit the region - with male infants allowing Otana to transition into a bachelor troop; and females transferring to other troops a decade from now.
An alternative to ideas previously outlined could be for Mbeli to transfer across in the coming weeks and join Otana and Kanzi in a troop of 1.2 - with two females then imported from Europe. The eventual aim would be for one of these females to join Kibale’s troop at Taronga (along with Kanzi); and one to remain in Otana’s troop (with Mbeli), giving each troop two breeding females. The females could both initially join Otana’s troop, with one remaining on contraception until she’s ready to transfer across with Kanzi. This would have the double benefit of assisting the other female in settling into Otana’s troop; and sending Kanzi to Taronga’s troop with a female she’s at least familiar with. This plan also re-pairs Mbeli with a different founder male; and ensures Kanzi is left alone in a 1.1 pair for a considerably shorter time than had Melbourne waited to source females via import.
Thought I'd share this interesting video I found on a Melbourne BTS encounter from 2018;
A few interesting notes:
A few interesting notes:
- Kanzi's shy behavior at the beginning is attributed by the keeper as to have been a potential result of Otana who may have been worked up out on exhibit before they all came inside. It's noted that all of the girls ran inside together which is unusual. Obviously the small group setting (and lack of adult females) wouldn't have helped any confrontations between any of the individuals.
- It's also mentioned that as of 2018, Yuska was still cycling at the age of 48! The keeper said they didn't want to risk breeding from her due to her age which is a shame considering her genetic value...if only Otana arrived five or so years earlier.
- At the time, Otana was only about five foot three, however they can get up to six foot. The keeper mentioned another 'male' Yuska used to live with was incredibly big, and I'm assuming she was referencing Rigo who I remember was quite tall in stature. Motaba on the other hand was always more short and chunky.
- Otana weighed 176 kg at the time, and was roughly fully grown.
- The keeper also mentions they only had a small amount of gorillas due to Otana's young age ie. they wanted him to get used to the role of being silverback...not sure if this was just a throwaway comment or perhaps the reason why they never decided to import any additional females.