European (Tea)Cup - League D - Stuttgart vs Nuremberg

Stuttgart vs Nuremberg - BIRDS

  • Stuttgart 5/0 Nuremberg

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nuremberg 3/2 Stuttgart

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nuremberg 4/1 Stuttgart

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nuremberg 5/0 Stuttgart

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .

TeaLovingDave

Moderator
Staff member
15+ year member
Two pretty strong contenders from Germany this time round, and both very highly regarded by zoo enthusiasts..... but also representing rather different design and collection ethoses from one another. That said, I have a strong soft spot for both - and as a matter of fact first visited them in conscecutive days almost exactly a decade ago.

However, only one can win the match at hand, and the category which will determine the victor is a nice broad one: BIRDS. I look forward to seeing what all of you think!
 
Feels like a fairly safe 4:1 vote for Stuttgart, but I am open to counter-arguments :)
 
Nuremberg has more than is visible on first place: Well done Birds of Pray zone with the mentioned Harpy Eagle. Free-flyng birds at the beautifly designed Manatee house and Dessert house. Ostrich/Hoofstock mixed Savanna exhibit. And the Brilliant Lammargeiger/Bobak Marmot/Eurasian nutcracker/Rock Partridge/Common Chough Mixed Aviary.

The collection at Stuttgart is four times bigger with some beautiful aviaries, but with some outdated as well. I will vote against the common flow and will give 2 points to Nuremberg based on their great exhibitary, but I am not sticking with my vote.
 
I agree with Twilighter - nearly all of Stuttgart's bird collection is housed in smallish, regular aviaries. Nothing special at all, really, besides the rare species housed.

Meanwhile Nürnberg has some extraordinary exhibits, but a much smaller collection.
 
Meanwhile Nürnberg has some extraordinary exhibits, but a much smaller collection.

Seems like another win for quantity over quality.

While i really liked the (walk-trough) aviaries at Wilhelma, they are definitely not outstanding. The Subtropenterasse are quite ugly and small. Despite the Lammargeiger at Nürnberg, both zoos doesn't shine with their birds of prey aviaries. Although Nürnberg had remarkable breeding success Harpy Eagles. The Dessert and the Manati house were already mentioned. I would also like to highlight the penguin and the bald ibis exhibits with the typical sandstone at Nürnberg.



I still thinking that Wilhelma deserves the win, as it keeps many rare species, but 4:1 seems quite harsh for me. Therefor 3:2
 
Nothing special at all, really, besides the rare species housed.

That is not how I would describe Stuttgart. Yes there are plenty of standard aviaries that are in cases too small. Good news for the birds is that the renovations of the subtropenterassen have started, so the right half (the part without the kaka) has recently been emptied.

But the Freiflugvolieren as well as the Amazon house are some very good exhibits.

Stuttgart has about 4 times more bird species than Nuremberg and it is one of the biggest ones in Europe, with plenty of rarities. And while I always advocate that quality is just as important as quantity, Stuttgart can offer both. Without a doubt the single best bird exhibit in these 2 zoos is the bearded vulture aviary which also houses black stork & rock pigeon (currently no nutcracker or choughs though). It is a former brown bear enclosure:
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@ralph

The Desert house is also a very nice exhibit, but houses only 3 bird species, though they are interesting passerines: trumpeter finch, red-cheeked cordonbleu & firefinch:
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The 3rd highlight is the manatee house with free-ranging tanagers, doves, honeycreepers, euphonia and some ducks:
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Apart from that the bulbul in the carnivore house are a nice touch as is the mix of red-billed hornbill & dwarf mongoose. The big walkthrough with waldrapp etc. is also nice. But that is mostly it. I personally think that many of the owl and bird of prey aviaries are quite ugly and small / too small, as is the hyacint macaw aviary (though with good breeding results). So the Wilhelma is not the only one with that issue.

My bird highlight in the Wilhelma are the Freiflugvolieren which is a mix of 4 walk-through aviaries with multiple side aviaries attached. I really like the flowing design of concrete and steel, which is softened by the good planting. This complex alone has some 70 species, which is more than the whole of Nuremberg and a good many other zoos. Here are some pictures:
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The Amazon house is also very nice for birds with some 10 species free-ranging including a large breeding group of yellow oriole
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Designwise the aviary for steamer ducks & caracara is also a highlight:
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Then there are also plenty of aviaries that are on the small side of acceptable and in some cases just clearly too small (roadrunner, many of the larger parrots). These problems even arise in the newer exhibits like the birds & small mammal house:
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This is for a pair of roadrunner (an additional pair is kept behind the scenes, where they have a large off-show breeding centre)
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This is how the subtropical terraces look (or used to look for a part of it). It has some 30 aviaries, which are all quite low and might be fine for the smaller parrots, but not for the kea, kaka or the other large species kept here
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@Maguari

The Wilhelma has loads of other aviaries throughout the zoo. Most are just fine, but a particularly noteworthy one houses Congo peafowl, together with whistling ducks & robin chats:
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@Cichlid

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@Philipine eagle


Nuremberg and Stuttgart are 2 of my favourite zoos, but unfortunately for Nuremberg birds just aren't their strong suit, while they are for Stuttgart. So I have no problem voting 4-1.
 
Seems like another win for quantity over quality.

Hm, 53 against 9 species of perching birds, that is both quantity and quality in terms of collection for Stuttgart.
Agree with the critics on the Birds & Small Mammals House, with its often too small exhibits.

I thought the Sudtropenterassen are really charming (at least in summer). Lintworm already described the quality of both Amazonica and the Freiflugvolieren, the latter are a series of 11 aviaries that are really excellent and the sort of aviary that is absent in Nurnberg.

Other noteworthy bird places in Stuttgart: Cuban grassquit in the Butterfly greenhouse, the mixed species aviary on the first floor of the Maurisches Landhaus (Pheasant-pigeon, Asian Fairy-bluebird, Red-whiskered bulbul), the historical important Damaszenerhalle (with 4 aviaries of moderate quality) and untill very recent, the Grey wagtail in the Reptile House (the latter obviously doesn't count for this match).
 
I'll give 3 points to Stuttgart for it's quantity and 2 points to Nuremberg for it's quality. I'm not saying that the quality of Stuttgart it's bad, but Nuremberg it's has realy stunning enclosures, and tho the flamingo habitat is a bit dull, it's really spacious. So it's 3-2 for Stuttgart, good species and a few good exhibits do it for me.
 
The Amazon house is also very nice for birds with some 10 species free-ranging
About 10? I know that 6 (5) species, namely Chaco Chachalaca, Yellow Oriole, Blue-backed Grassquit, Brazilian Tanager, Turquoise Tanager and Blue-and-yellow Tanager (if they are still alive).
What are the others ?
 
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Nothing special at all, really, besides the rare species housed.
Three species of birds of paradise, four species of toucans/aracaris, many different tanagers and estrilid finches, that breed well, Green Oropendola, Tawny Frogmouth, Rock Pratincole, Congo Peafowl, Giant Wood Rail, Chaco Chachalaca, Arabian Partridge, Spotted Crake, five different lapwings, Variable Sunbird, two pygmy geese species, Oriental Stork and many differnt fruit doves aren't special.
An interesting theory.
These (mentioned) birds (that are on show) live in acceptable to good aviaries.
 
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About 10? I know that 6 (5) species, namely Chaco Chachalaca, Yellow Oriole, Blue-backed Grassquit, Brazilian Tanager, Turquoise Tanager and Blue-and-yellow Tanager (if they are still alive).
What are the others ?

Sunbittern, Blue ground dove and Pacific hornero were also present in 2022
 
Sunbittern, Blue ground dove and Pacific hornero were also present in 2022
The Pacific Horneo died 2023.
The Sunbittern had to move into the oropendola aviary, because the chachalacas bullied them.
Blue Ground Doves are maybe there, but they aren't signed anymore. I don't think they are there because were signed unlike the horneo and the Blue-and-yellow Tanager
 
Three species of birds of paradise, four species of toucans/aracaris, many different tanagers and estrilid finches, that breed well, Green Oropendola, Tawny Frogmouth, Rock Pratincole, Congo Peafowl, Giant Wood Rail, Chaco Chachalaca, Arabian Partridge, Spotted Crake, five different lapwings, Variable Sunbird, two pygmy geese species, Oriental Stork and many differnt fruit doves aren't special.
An interesting theory.
These (mentioned) birds (that are on show) live in acceptable to good aviaries.

I don't get what you want to say with this. I guess that all the species mentioned are included to the "besides the rare species housed".
 
I don't get what you want to say with this. I guess that all the species mentioned are included to the "besides the rare species housed".
My post (after reconsideration) was ill-considered and written too emotionally. I've already reported it to prevent anyone from feeling hurt by it.
Please just ignore this post.
I hope that won‘t happen a secound time
 
First things first - I don't think there was anything wrong with any of your posts, so don't worry @Paul.Haerle :)

Secondly, that was an enjoyable match all round, even if the discussion mostly revolved around the degree of victory rather than who deserved it:

Stuttgart - 96/140 points - 68.571%
Nuremberg - 44/140 points - 31.429%
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