European (Tea)Cup - League A - Chester vs Paris Zoo & Menagerie

Chester vs Paris Zoo & Menagerie - MISCELLANEOUS MAMMALS

  • Chester 5/0 Paris

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Chester 4/1 Paris

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Chester 3/2 Paris

    Votes: 12 57.1%

  • Paris 3/2 Chester

    Votes: 9 42.9%

  • Paris 4/1 Chester

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Paris 5/0 Chester

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
TeaLovingDave

TeaLovingDave

Moderator
Staff member
15+ year member
This match spells the final chance for both contenders to prove their mettle within League A, and the category at hand is a suitably juicy one presenting plenty of scope for discussion and debate - MISCELLANEOUS MAMMALS. As a general reminder, this covers all mammalian groups not already represented by the primate, hoofstock or carnivore categories!
 
I reckon I shall have to give this one some serious thought - on one hand, there are the manatees at Paris Zoo.... but on the other hand, I am struggling to think of any other particular category highlights at either French collection, whilst Chester has a nice broad scattering of strong exhibits and interesting species including perhaps the very best bat exhibit in Europe.

For now, a 3:2 vote for Chester seems a good place to start, pending discussion and debate!
 
This is a pretty good category for Chester, there is a good amount of small mammals dotted around the zoo. I won't be counting anything currently off show but here is an overview for people unfamiliar:
  • Linnaeus' two-toed sloth above a large aquarium in Spirit of the Jaguar, also with access to an outdoors enclosure from ropes that also contains Azara's agouti.
  • The indoors of the okapi house contains three small enclosures for rodents: African pygmy mouse, Acacia rat, and Barbary striped grass mouse.
  • Fruit Bat Forest is of course one of the greatest bat houses in Europe with a very large group of Rodrigues fruit bats and Seba's short tailed bats. The house also has two exhibits for Barbary striped grass mice and Turkish spiny mice.
  • Capybara and giant anteater are mixed in a large paddock together opposite the Andean bears.
  • Goodfellow's tree-kangaroo and dusky pademelon share a mixed exhibit in Islands, both species have bred here and the tree-kangaroos have access to some particularly tall trees.
  • Also in Islands, a run of small aviaries at the entrance for Prevost's squirrel and Luzon giant cloud rat.
  • For some other species dotted around: Malagasy giant rat in the aye-aye exhibit, southern tamandua mixed with callitrichids, Swinhoe's striped squirrels outside the elephant house, and the elephants themselves count too! While not the largest elephant enclosure, there is a pool and a good amount of enrichment opportunities.
And some images:
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Sloth indoor exhibit @gulogulogulo

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Sloth and agouti outdoor exhibit @felis silvestris

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Fruit Bat Forest @MagpieGoose

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Tree kangaroo indoors @gulogulogulo

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Tree kangaroo up a tree (if you can spot it!) @Fallax

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Asian elephant paddock @felis silvestris
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Asian elephant paddock @gulogulogulo

I would appreciate if someone could tell me more about Paris? I'm only aware of the manatees!
 
Having visited Paris in the summer, their small mammals were a weaker part of the collection in terms of numbers though they do have some strengths , including similar species to Chester and unique ones Chester does not hold
Patagonian Mara have a nice mixed enclosure with the rhea and guanaco , whilst capybara can be found mixed in with the Brazilian tapir, a common mix in zoos.
The zoo also have armadillo (six banded) and two toed sloths in the tropical house, the former being mixed with the Saki monkeys, and a giant anteater here too. (Quick edit looking back on photos they also have lesser tenrec as well)
The highlight of course is the manatee pod, they are gorgeous creatures in what I felt was a very nice setting.
I might possibly be missing some but those are ones I all saw on my visit last year. Hopefully that’ll help some people make up their minds on votes. I’ve not partook so far so shall continue to be a spectator.
 
Fallax has pretty much covered all of Chester's strongest points in this category - and they are extremely strong points. Whilst the elephants technically fall under "Hoofstock" as per our own pre-determined definition, Chester will be tough to beat regardless.
 
According to ZTL, Paris has the following:

Menagerie

Azaras Agouti
Cuban Hutia
E Grey Kangaroo
European Souslik
Goodfellow's tree kangaroo
Indian porcupine
Large Hairy Armadillo
N. Luzon Cloud Rat
Red necked Wallaby
Tasmanian Devil

Zoo
Manatee
Capybara
Giant Anteater
Lesser Hedgehog Tenrec
Linnaeus two toed sloth
Mara
Rodrigues Flying Fox
6 banded armadillo
Straw coloured fruit bat

Total 19

Not a bad number but doubt it compares to Chester, although this probably isn't it's strongest category
The manatees and devils probably are enough to earn Paris 2 points
EDIT
Actually having checked Chester, it only has 23 so there really is little in it in terms of quantity
 
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Haven’t visited Paris but have been to Chester a few times.

Looking at the gallery and posts so far I’m in the 3/2 camp currently based on the species list and exhibitry with the Manatees and Devils and hedgehogs being a point for Paris but the bats, mice, sloth exhibit and squirrels of particular interest to me at Chester but could be persuaded either way to raise or alter the score.
 
Chester has 15 animal types not found in Paris and gets 10 points for animals found in up to 10 European zoos.
Paris has 12 animal types not found in Chester and gets 4 points for animals found in up to 10 European zoos.
This gives Chester a 25-16 win. I'm going to score this 3-2 to Chester
 
I'm honestly surprised this match is going as slowly as it has thus far - to hopefully get things kicked off a bit more, I shall ask @Haasje , @Penshet and @Kalaw to argue their stance :)
 
Upon reflection, I believe that Chester Zoo and the zoos in Paris (Zoo de Vincennes and Ménagerie du Jardin des Plantes) are more evenly matched in this category than I initially thought. In terms of species, both are similar, but Paris has a more interesting collection in my opinion.

Regarding exhibits, Chester Zoo has an edge over the Parisian zoos. While Zoo de Vincennes has some impressive exhibits, those at the Ménagerie are more average and less engaging. However, what tips the balance in favor of Paris for me is the well-designed manatee exhibit at Vincennes and the Tasmanian devil exhibit at the Ménagerie. Additionally, the tree kangaroos, which are always a highlight for me, are present in both zoos. These exhibits are nicely done and architecturally showcased, giving Paris the bonus point in my eyes.

The reason the match is progressing slowly, I suspect, is likely because everyone sees it as a close contest, with both zoos being equally good. Most people can accept voting for either zoo. Personally, I understand why someone might prefer Chester Zoo, and I don't feel the need to convince them otherwise. In general, when everyone can live with the general consensus, there is less discussion and less need for persuasion.
 
TeaLovingDave said:
I'm honestly surprised this match is going as slowly as it has thus far - to hopefully get things kicked off a bit more, I shall ask @Haasje , @Penshet and @Kalaw to argue their stance :)
Click to expand...
To be honest, I am really struggling with this one and could well change my vote. My logic for voting Paris was simply that, other than the free-ranging sloths in the Jaguar house, who I found tremendously active and was delighted to see given access to live trees outdoors, most of Chester’s offerings in this category are very forgettable. Then I of course remembered that the excellent bat house, a bucket list exhibit for myself, was closed on my visit, and as such it may be closer than I had suspected.

But my first manatees and tree kangaroos were very special experiences, and I found that most of the Menagerie’s offerings in this category, be it quolls (now Tasmanian Devils) in a former bird house or wallabies visible externally in the delightful botanical garden that surrounds the zoo, were exceedingly charming. The bulk of Chester’s offerings (mice in the okapi house, squirrels in Islands and the elephant house, etc), meanwhile, felt like nothing that couldn’t be found at any small countryside collection in the UK, again with the exceptions of the sloths and bats. I also really enjoyed the large and undulating field with mara for Patagonian animals.

All in all, there is very little between the two collections in terms of numbers or quality of the displays, but having visited both collections, I feel as though, based off the presence of the manatees (boring, I know, but being both a rarity and a crowd-pleaser their impact on this tie cannot be ignored) and the charm of the Menagerie, I enjoyed the Parisian offerings a great deal more. To be honest this is even closer than a 3-2 and I could not tell you which is objectively superior here, but subjectively speaking I would chose Paris any day where miscellaneous mammals are concerned.
 
I have voted 3-2 Chester , but think there is not much in this. I'm going to have to look at what the tree kangaroo and devil exhibits are like at Paris . For me the Devils and manatees are a big plus for Paris. If Chester had either of those it wouldn't make me think twice but now I am questioning my vote
 
pipaluk said:
According to ZTL, Paris has the following:

Menagerie

Azaras Agouti
Cuban Hutia
E Grey Kangaroo
European Souslik
Goodfellow's tree kangaroo
Indian porcupine
Large Hairy Armadillo
N. Luzon Cloud Rat
Red necked Wallaby
Tasmanian Devil

Zoo
Manatee
Capybara
Giant Anteater
Lesser Hedgehog Tenrec
Linnaeus two toed sloth
Mara
Rodrigues Flying Fox
6 banded armadillo
Straw coloured fruit bat

Total 19

Not a bad number but doubt it compares to Chester, although this probably isn't it's strongest category
The manatees and devils probably are enough to earn Paris 2 points
EDIT
Actually having checked Chester, it only has 23 so there really is little in it in terms of quantity
Click to expand...
One species you omit from your Menagerie list is the Dusky Pademelon, which both brings Paris’ species numbers to just three short of Chester’s, and also means that arguably Chester’s biggest rarity (unless I am forgetting something?) in the tie is also present at the opposition. :)
 
Excellent arguments made thank you and I have switched 3/2 Paris though I think it is close but the Manatees and Devils required more of my credit.
 
Lafone said:
Excellent arguments made thank you and I have switched 3/2 Paris though I think it is close but the Manatees and Devils required more of my credit.
Click to expand...
I have too !
At the end of the day both these contenders are through to the next round so in this close contest it is only a matter of group placings
 
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pipaluk said:
I have too !
At the end of the day both these contenders are through to the next round so in this close contest it is only a matter of group placings
Click to expand...

Basically, this match will determine the percentages and win count to be carried over into the next round - so there's still definitely an advantage to be obtained for both collections.
 
I've been keeping half-a-count, and Vienna is currently in the lead with 4 wins, with Chester and the Paris duo having 3 wins each. None of the other contenders can touch them at this point, but it's just a case of, whichever of these two wins, can they overtake Vienna in terms of percentages... maths, unfortunately, not being my strong suite.
 
Oof. Paris does have a personal favorite (grey kangaroo) and a high ranker (Cuban hutia) for me but Chester is definitely difficult to argue against.
 
CrashMegaraptor said:
I've been keeping half-a-count, and Vienna is currently in the lead with 4 wins, with Chester and the Paris duo having 3 wins each. None of the other contenders can touch them at this point, but it's just a case of, whichever of these two wins, can they overtake Vienna in terms of percentages... maths, unfortunately, not being my strong suite.
Click to expand...
When the draw was first announced, Paris was, even as someone who has visited both zoos and is most fond of them (my first continental zoo visits), the collection whose inclusion surprised me the most. And with how difficult this group had the potential to be, I thoroughly expected them to be eliminated with one win at most. Seeing them finish above Basel and Zürich is perhaps the most surprising story so far personally.
 
An interesting match, which started out quite strongly in the favour of Chester before a relatively late-game swing back towards Paris - I think there's a decent chance that had the pro-Paris voters made their case sooner (or at all) the result of the match *could* have swung altogether!

Chester - 54/105 points - 51.429%
Paris - 51/105 points - 48.571%

Both contenders are through to the next round in any case, but Chester will be bringing an all-important win forwards!
 
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