Heman's remaining tusk was indeed impressive, it was quite thick and heavy all the way down bar the tip I can only imagine how a matching pair would have looked. I was less than underwhelmed by the enclosure in 1977 from what I can remember most of the area in the outside yard was concrete and by standards today very small its a shame they could not have done better at the time and as you have pointed out a dam waste of good genetics not having any off spring from him.
Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025
- Thread starter Zoofan15
- Start date
I often look at the list of available elephants they had at the time of Heman’s import (two bulls, including Heman) and multiple cows (including three of reproductive age) and wonder how breeding didn’t happen. Especially now we know Heman knew how to mount cows.
I had previously assumed that the zoo weren’t interested in breeding elephants; but there were apparently attempts to breed Heman and Ranee, which resumed again when she was pushing 30 and past her reproductive prime.
I often wonder the same with Dubbo’s African elephants. - a proven bull and multiple prime aged cows.
It also had me stumped too when one considers breeding among some European zoos had been happening for decades. I know for a fact that staff at Dubbo had contacted the Toronto zoo for advice on breeding since they had had some success with their herd of 1M, 8F.
The numbers were certainly there to account for reproductive abnormalities in one of the cows. As Taronga’s import of cows proved, one of the four (Tang Mo) was non-viable. While today, blood work is used to monitor the cows cycles, I read that in the 80’s the method consisted of walking the cows past the bull’s yard and observing their interactions - with mutual interest suggesting that the cow was ovulating (and the bull subsequently let in with them). It was far from reliable in establishing if the cow was cycling, so that may have been the main reason.
I’ve often said that it feels like the success of the Australian breeding programme took the zoos by surprising - with three of Taronga’s four cows and all three of Melbourne’s cows each welcoming their first calf between 2009-2013 (with one of those cows even welcoming a second calf three years after her first). It would have been great to have seen four calves at Taronga had Tang Mo conceived.
I would disagree, simply our ability to understand and keep elephants has greatly improved. Stress levels and or depressions seen in previous elephants would have been a huge prohibiting factor into breeding. The same way as not fully understanding how elephants actually cycle breed.
Breeding was attempted with the African cows, unfortunate events of loosing bulls hindered their ability to breed. But also social dynamics and how the elephants were being kept would have also played a large role in it.
Our breeding success hinged on relying on the Berlin team and the combined experience of established breeding herds in Europe and of memory I think they also looked at how some of the asian sanctuaries etc had conducted successful breeding. Elephants are not hoof stock, and previously our stick a male and female together in very substandard conditions and hope they breed, like we did with hoof stock just simple did not work.
That’s the point though - the social conditions were close to ideal. The zoo had the following African elephants:
1.0 Congo (1958): Arrived 1983, died 2000
0.1 Toto (1968) Arrived 1983, died 1984
0.1 Yum Yum (1969): Arrived 1977, died 2010
0.1 Cuddles (1973): Arrived 1977, died 2017
0.1 Cheri (1974): Arrived 1977, died 2007
Congo arrived as a prime aged 25 year old proven bull. The four cows were aged 9-15 years. Demographically they couldn’t have asked for a more optimal founder base bar a multigenerational herd. The elephants were held in an open range setting, with seperate housing for the bull.
In the setting of a city zoo, I fully agree. The cramped exhibit would have only compounded any social tensions amongst the cows; and could have hindered mating via a lack of space.
Yes but asians do not make africans. African elephants show markedly more mate selection then what appears to be seen in asian elephants. It is quite possible the cows didn't see Congo as a viable mate. In the wild africans will only mate with older males, of memory some of the zoo's in the states also had to switch to older males when the cows had no interest in males that were younger. African elephants especially young cows will often mate with younger bulls and do mating cries that attract older bulls, which are the target. In turn which often then mate with the younger cows and father the offspring.
By the time Congo was old enough to be seen as a decently aged bull. The cows may very well have passed the age where they were viable breeders. We keep importing young bulls, when in reality the most appropriate set up would have been the cows how they were but Congo being a middle aged 30ish yo bull. Which aligns with more natural breeding options. Not trying to force mating between ages that would 99% of the time not happen.
I cannot remember the exact reason, but I did ask about why they never bred at a keeper talk probably close to 20 years ago. I remember that there were a lot of obstacles, one being the cows didn't always let the bulls mount them.
Again, you can have the perfect set up. But if the knowledge and correct conditions are not there, it's not always going to work. Elephants dont breed like hoof stock. Putting them in a big paddock and hoping for the best isnt going to yield the best results.
I’m hopeful Putra Mas will at least visit the cow group; though Monarto Safari Park have been clear they will be replicating the natural social order where adult bulls live (predominantly) solitary lives, only visiting the female herds.
A huge emphasis has been placed on the social development of young elephants in the region since the breeding programme commenced in 2000’s. Luk Chai is a textbook example of a well socialised bull and the open range facilities will further support the rearing of well socialised elephants - where juveniles and adolescents learn reproductive behaviour via observation and practice. This is something so many of the founders were deprived of.
With this in mind, Monarto will be received five elephants from a range of social backgrounds. If they can reach a situation where the bull can interact appropriately with the cows on short visits, then I don’t doubt it’ll be enriching for all concerned. The ideal of course would be a natural mating between Putra Mas and Pak Boon. Considering she’s a proven breeder, this will be a good test of Putra Mas’ capabilities as a natural breeder.
I'm hoping that he will get there!!
Not sure if I have missed something here but David the bull came out from the UK in the 1977 shipment of the 4 elephants from Longleat!
Yes, that’s correct. I have:
1.0 David (1968) Imported 1977, died 1987
For some reason, I’d assumed he’d died much earlier than 1987.
With that in mind, they really did have a good founder base; though I understand David had health issues and therefore hopes rested on the proven bull Congo to sire calves.
He suffered from arthritis from what I can recall, so perhaps that hindered his ability to properly mate the cows - which is why Congo was inevitably brought in.
The Elephant Database notes he was euthanised due to arthritis issues. He was only 19 years of age, so very unfortunate.
I recall Postcards from the Zoo going into more detail, but don’t recall the specifics.
This is a different incident to the previous video (where Roi-Yim got upset because he realised Mali had taken herself off for a swim); but both great examples of the herd coming together to support each other.
Roi-Yim is certainly a nervous calf compared to the females, with Aiyara being particularly precocious. This has been evident from early on. It’s ironic considering the natural social order of the species is for the young bulls to strike out on their own, while the cows remain in their natal herd for life. At least he’ll have Luk Chai to mentor him during his transition out of the herd. He’ll surely excel in mentoring him and any future bulls.
It really is a sheer joy to watch this herd adapt to their new home watching them actually have enough room to run like they do in the videos is heart warming. It must be a welcome change to have enough space now to plan which area they want to visit and how long they choose to stay there. I believe as the herd size grows it will become even more interesting to see the herd organise themselves in their daily lives with an increasingly more complex interactions as the herd expands.
It will be fascinating to watch the herd expand, with Werribee having far greater potential in the current state to manage regular breeding of multiple cows than Taronga Western Plains Zoo.
Dokkoon’s line contains three cows - 1993, 2010 and 2022
Num Oi’s line contains two cows - 2001 and 2023
Assuming survival of the juveniles (which I acknowledge is optimistic, even with the progress of the EEHV vaccine and Zoos Victoria’s proactive approach to testing), both are well placed to flourish into thriving matrilines, with a potential combined total of three calves from the next cohort (circa 2028) hopefully adding further females to these lines.
For now, the herd are very close knit, which is a typical response given the unfamiliarity of their new environment. I hope the bonds between the cows remain strong into the future; though I note there’s the potential for divisions to form as matrilines expand over the years, which is something the zoo are no doubt aware of. I hope Monarto’s herd similarly flourishes; but if attempts to establish a multigenerational herd around a single cow fail, I don’t doubt there could be an option to split off some cows from Werribee’s herd two or three decades from now.
That's interesting you mention that. I went back and watched the other video and it seems your indeed right! It's crazy how there's so many parallels with both videos - Roi doesn't seem to happy that his mum keeps on sneaking off to the pool paddock.
It was also interesting to see the independence of all of the elephants in this longer video - at certain points we can see Num Oi and Kati off on their own, Mek Kapah strolling by herself, and then obviously Dokkoon accompanied by Aiyara and Roi. It would've been quite unusual to see an elephant all by themselves in the previous complex at Melbourne so it's good that it's allowing individuals to wander off as they please.
That's interesting you mention that. I went back and watched the other video and it seems your indeed right! It's crazy how there's so many parallels with both videos - Roi doesn't seem to happy that his mum keeps on sneaking off to the pool paddock.
It was also interesting to see the independence of all of the elephants in this longer video - at certain points we can see Num Oi and Kati off on their own, Mek Kapah strolling by herself, and then obviously Dokkoon accompanied by Aiyara and Roi. It would've been quite unusual to see an elephant all by themselves in the previous complex at Melbourne so it's good that it's allowing individuals to wander off as they please.
Roi-Yim was certainly making a row! It’s not a noise I’m used to hearing in elephants, presumably because it’s used to express displeasure and Australasia’s zoos do everything they can to negate feelings of frustration in their elephants. On my last visit to Melbourne Zoo, Mek Kepah was roaring because she had tired of the bull paddock they had access to and wanted the connecting gate to be opened. From memory, this has been the only time I’ve heard an elephant anger roar in person.
Otherwise, there’s a clip of Thong Dee roaring in the Flight of the Elephants documentary. She’s been let out of the truck following an unsuccessful and stressful attempt to transfer her out (that was blocked by protesters) and makes her frustration known.
No doubt, it’s just Roi-Yim settling in. As he grows more familiar with his environment, he’ll learn his mother is always within reach (even if she’s not in his line of sight 100% of the time).
Rumbling from the elephants is essentially their way of communication. In both videos, you can hear Mali communicating back, probably communicating that she's coming and on her way back. Once they're all together, you can hear them still trumpeting and rumbling - the keeper describes it well, they're effectively just ensuring that one another is safe and everyone's alright.
I too have rarely heard elephants rumbling in person but it is common when cows are in with a bull or interacting with one - I recall Kulab and Luk Chai communicating in that manner through the gate a few days after his arrival from Dubbo.