European (Tea)Cup - League D - Tierpark Berlin vs Pairi Daiza

[TeaLovingDave]

Tierpark Berlin are safely into the next round, whilst their opponent will progress no further - but there is one last chance for Pairi Daiza to gain a modicum of glory and snatch a victory away from the Berlin titan. The category is one we have recently discussed with regards to the *other* little collection located within the German capital - ECTOTHERMS.

Three days to discuss and debate before the first round of the ZooChat Cup ends!

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

Now, I can't speak for Pairi Daiza and what it has or hasn't got... but unless things have drastically changed since I last went (which was about a decade or so ago, granted), "Ectotherms" is NOT T-Berlin's strong suite in the slightest. They basically had two houses themed around reptiles and their designated reptile house, one of the older buildings, was about as bog-standard as they come. Perfectly serviceable, yes, but whilst there were a decent selection of reptiles, there was nothing standout in either the exhibits or the selection - just a bunch of snakes and lizards (and one random tarantula). The other house, the Sunda Gharial exhibit, was pretty solid, albeit nowhere near as good as its west-side equivalent... but one decent exhibit does not the winner in a European (Tea)Cup round make.

Now, as I said, it has been several years since I last went, and if things have changed since then, I'll happily redact my comment, but unless PD has literally nothing at all (and I'm pretty sure they have their own on-site aquarium), I can't see T-Berlin winning this.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

but unless things have drastically changed since I last went (which was about a decade or so ago, granted), "Ectotherms" is NOT T-Berlin's strong suite in the slightest. They basically had two houses themed around reptiles and their designated reptile house, one of the older buildings, was about as bog-standard as they come. Perfectly serviceable, yes, but whilst there were a decent selection of reptiles, there was nothing standout in either the exhibits or the selection - just a bunch of snakes and lizards (and one random tarantula). The other house, the Sunda Gharial exhibit, was pretty solid, albeit nowhere near as good as its west-side equivalent... but one decent exhibit does not the winner in a European (Tea)Cup round make.

The situation has indeed changed, and neither the Snake Farm (the reptile house you mentioned initially) nor the Crocodile House exists anymore. However, the Alfred-Brehm Haus has been comprehensively renovated and now contains a pretty choice selection of ectotherm exhibits alongside the various mammalian inhabitants.

Pairi Daiza has both an aquarium and a reptile house, and generally-speaking a larger ectotherm collection than the Tierpark does, but these are pretty terrible in terms of exhibit quality, general design and husbandry standards.

Incidentally, I would tend to dispute your suggestion that the old Snake Farm contained no stand-out species, as it was rather speciose and contained several taxa which I have seldom seen in the 11 years since my first visit to the Tierpark... but as noted, it has not existed for quite some time now and as such has no bearing on this discussion

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

The situation has indeed changed, and neither the Snake Farm (the reptile house you mentioned initially) nor the Crocodile House exists anymore. However, the Alfred-Brehm Haus has been comprehensively renovated and now contains a pretty choice selection of ectotherm exhibits alongside the various mammalian inhabitants.

Information I am frankly delighted to know. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[Penshet]

To me, the ectotherm selection largely detracts from the experience at Pairi Daiza. The reptile house can get insanely hot in summer, the enclosures are less than ideal and the building is clearly not capable of handling the crowds Pairi Daiza receives.
The aquarium, similarly, is too cramped for the crowds, but here the enclosure quality jumps off a cliff. Especially the shark/sea turtle tank should be at least three times the size it is now to be acceptable.

The Tierpark doesn't have quite the same collection, but what they do have is honestly quite nice - the terraria in the Alfred Brehm House are very nice, as are the aquaria in the Patagonia restaurant - both with some focus on threatened species.

 

[EliasNys]

Besides the reptile " boat" ( of which most inhabitants are actually rescued animals) and the aquarium, Pairi Daiza has a lot more to offer here. There is the komodo dragon building, the reptile exhibits in the Oasis, for aldabra giant tortoises and yellow bellied sliders for example. There are the gharials and Chinese alligator in the temple, the various exhibits for scorpions, snakes etc in the crypt, and a walkthrough African Spurred tortoise exhibit, mixed with goats. And I must add that the overall quality of the aquarium is quite good actually, only the shark tunnel is a real eyesore. So while the Tierpark exhibits are mostly of better quality, Pairi Daiza has a way bigger collection and sometimes more innovative exhibits ( like the tortoise-goat walkthrough)

 

[snowleopard]

In terms of the size of the collection, Pairi Daiza is probably far ahead of Berlin Tierpark as the Belgian zoo has a massive assortment of reptiles, amphibians and fish between its boat-shaped Reptile House and the historic Aquarium (plus other zones). However, those areas are crowded and the exhibit quality is hit-and-miss. This is one category where I think it might be best to go for quality over quantity. 3-2 Berlin Tierpark would be my vote right now.

 

[Kalaw]

Vertebrate numbers for both collections per ZTL are as follows.

Tierpark Berlin:
Reptiles: 51
Amphibians: 12
Fishes: 65
Total: 128

Pairi Daiza:
Reptiles: 98
Amphibians: 17
Fishes: 189
Total: 304

Not sure where to vote here, having never visited either. Pairi Daiza has over the double the numbers of its opposition, but enclosure quality is varying, and I can suspect that, for visitors, the 'Mersus Emergo' and 'Nautilus Aquarium,' both provide rather bleak experiences, striking me as quite cramped and dark from photos online. I really like the idea of having multiple coral reef aquaria to admire whilst enjoying lunch in the Tierpark's Restaurant Patagonia, but it is a fairly limited offering where fish are concerned. Does anyone have photos of the new reptile exhibits in the Alfred-Brehm Haus, as I couldn't find many on the gallery?

 

[Philipine eagle]

Does anyone have photos of the new reptile exhibits in the Alfred-Brehm Haus, as I couldn't find many on the gallery?

I uploaded yesterday a dozen photos of these exhibits and I've visited both collections very recently.

Pairi Daiza has the quantity but many exhibits are rather poor and the visitor areas are often cramped and uncomfortable in the Mersus Emergo, and really claustrophobic in the Nautilus. Hopefully the new tropical hall will bring some better exhibits for reptiles so they can revamp the Mergus Emergo.

The Tierpark aquaria in the Patagona restaurant are very impressive in terms of design and they have a very interesting species list, but they are rather small and they are not easy to view as you have to navigate between dining tables. Not everyone who is eating appreciates a zoochatter who stands staring across the table at an aquarium.

All terrarium in the ABH are of very high quality and they have all the same size as the ones you can see on my photos (f.e. the Mangshan pitviper).
King cobra exhibit is larger, while there are a few very tiny exhibits embedded in the wall (rice fish, oriental fir-bellied toad, Vietnamese crocodile newt).
Both False gharials pools are very impressive and each has also 2 endangered Asian turtles.

I will vote 3:2 in favor of Berlin as less is indeed more here. But the collection in Pairi Daiza certainly deserves points, as there are some pretty interesting and endangered species among them.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Pairi Daiza has over the double the numbers of its opposition, but enclosure quality is varying, and I can suspect that, for visitors, the 'Mersus Emergo' and 'Nautilus Aquarium,' both provide rather bleak experiences, striking me as quite cramped and dark from photos online.

By and large they vary from the lower end of average, through poor, to actively-awful

For instance, one of the central rooms in Mersus Emergo contains this abomination terrarium, which comprises six tiny tanks which are viewable only from above and contain little-to-no shelter or hiding areas for the inhabitants:

These tanks contain a revolving door assortment of snake species - perhaps unsurprisingly there seems to be a fairly rapid turnover of stock within the exhibit, and within Mersus Emergo as a whole.

 

[EliasNys]

By and large they vary from the lower end of average, through poor, to actively-awful

For instance, one of the central rooms in Mersus Emergo contains this abomination terrarium, which comprises six tiny tanks which are viewable only from above and contain little-to-no shelter or hiding areas for the inhabitants:

These tanks contain a revolving door assortment of snake species - perhaps unsurprisingly there seems to be a fairly rapid turnover of stock within the exhibit, and within Mersus Emergo as a whole.

As I stated previously, a large part of the ship simply holds Reptiles that were rescued, confiscated or surrendered by the owners. That is more likely to be the reason for the rapid turnover. The terraria are also made in a way that inhabitants can be switched easily because of this reason. That partly explains the quality of exhibits/ overstocking in a large part of the Mersus Emergo.

 

[Penshet]

I don't think the animals being rescued excuses the exhibits being terrible. Certainly in TLD's last picture, adding a hiding space is the easiest thing to do.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

A quieter match than I'd hoped for, but it solidified the clean sweep of matches for Tierpark Berlin and the clean sweep of losses for Pairi Daiza:

Tierpark Berlin - 58/100 points - 58.000%
Pairi Daiza - 42/100 points - 42.000%
.