Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025

[Zoofan15]

Rumbling from the elephants is essentially their way of communication. In both videos, you can hear Mali communicating back, probably communicating that she's coming and on her way back. Once they're all together, you can hear them still trumpeting and rumbling - the keeper describes it well, they're effectively just ensuring that one another is safe and everyone's alright.

I too have rarely heard elephants rumbling in person but it is common when cows are in with a bull or interacting with one - I recall Kulab and Luk Chai communicating in that manner through the gate a few days after his arrival from Dubbo.

I’m not referring to rumbling/trumpeting, which like you say is a common form of communication, I’m referring to the roaring noise, which is this instance is clearly being used by Roi-Yim to express distress/displeasure. The herd recognises his distress and responds to him, which is good to see.

A similar example is after the birth of Pathi Harn, where he rolls under the gates, Pak Boon finds Porntip in a state of stress (as she can’t reach her calf). She lets out a loud roar, which brings an immediate response from Thong Dee, Tang Mo and Luk Chai, who were asleep in the barn at the time.

 

[Zorro]

It will be fascinating to watch the herd expand, with Werribee having far greater potential in the current state to manage regular breeding of multiple cows than Taronga Western Plains Zoo.

Dokkoon’s line contains three cows - 1993, 2010 and 2022
Num Oi’s line contains two cows - 2001 and 2023

Assuming survival of the juveniles (which I acknowledge is optimistic, even with the progress of the EEHV vaccine and Zoos Victoria’s proactive approach to testing), both are well placed to flourish into thriving matrilines, with a potential combined total of three calves from the next cohort (circa 2028) hopefully adding further females to these lines.

For now, the herd are very close knit, which is a typical response given the unfamiliarity of their new environment. I hope the bonds between the cows remain strong into the future; though I note there’s the potential for divisions to form as matrilines expand over the years, which is something the zoo are no doubt aware of. I hope Monarto’s herd similarly flourishes; but if attempts to establish a multigenerational herd around a single cow fail, I don’t doubt there could be an option to split off some cows from Werribee’s herd two or three decades from now.

I agree, with you, The next landmark for me is when the next cohort of calfs are born, hopefully mostly female calfs arrive. Next will be seeing a new bull arrive perhaps from Sydney zoo and the calfs produced by this breeding including the two current female calfs in the herd when their time comes to breed.

 

[Zoofan15]

I agree, with you, The next landmark for me is when the next cohort of calfs are born, hopefully mostly female calfs arrive. Next will be seeing a new bull arrive perhaps from Sydney zoo and the calfs produced by this breeding including the two current female calfs in the herd when their time comes to breed.

I hope that breeding from the current juveniles is prompt in that they produce their first calves around 12 years of age. Melbourne Zoo oversaw Kulab produce her first calf at 10 years of age; and Num-Oi and Mali produce their first calves at 12 years of age, so I’m hopeful they’ll follow a similar pattern with these young cows.

If we assume the next cohort is produced circa 2028 when Aiyara and Kati are five to six years old; then a follow up cohort could see them join Mali and possibly Num-Oi in producing calves a further six years down the line. They could even stagger it - with Mali and Num Oi producing calves in 2033; and Aiyara and Kati producing calves in 2034 (fresh off the bat of observing two experienced mothers birth and rear calves).

 

[Zorro]

I hope that breeding from the current juveniles is prompt in that they produce their first calves around 12 years of age. Melbourne Zoo oversaw Kulab produce her first calf at 10 years of age; and Num-Oi and Mali produce their first calves at 12 years of age, so I’m hopeful they’ll follow a similar pattern with these young cows.

If we assume the next cohort is produced circa 2028 when Aiyara and Kati are five to six years old; then a follow up cohort could see them join Mali and possibly Num-Oi in producing calves a further six years down the line. They could even stagger it - with Mali and Num Oi producing calves in 2033; and Aiyara and Kati producing calves in 2034 (fresh off the bat of observing two experienced mothers birth and rear calves).

I agree that age seems to be successful. I hope if possible even when one of the Sydney zoos bulls are used that some room could be found to use the Perth bull even if they can use AI, He is under-utilised still and has little in the way of calfs to date, having his bloodline at Werribee also must be a bonus in my view!

 

[Jambo]

I agree that age seems to be successful. I hope if possible even when one of the Sydney zoos bulls are used that some room could be found to use the Perth bull even if they can use AI, He is under-utilised still and has little in the way of calfs to date, having his bloodline at Werribee also must be a bonus in my view!

If he is able to breed naturally with Pak Boon, a bull calf from the pair would be of great value regionally and Werribee would be a strong candidate to receive said bull once it matures.

However, in the event Putra Mas and Pak Boon don't breed, or only daughters are produced I would hope they'd consider using AI or even transferring him down to Werribee eventually.

 

[Zoofan15]

I agree that age seems to be successful. I hope if possible even when one of the Sydney zoos bulls are used that some room could be found to use the Perth bull even if they can use AI, He is under-utilised still and has little in the way of calfs to date, having his bloodline at Werribee also must be a bonus in my view!

I agree it would be advantageous to get Putra Mas’ genes into the wider population beyond his sole descendent at Dubbo. As a first step they’ll need to establish his natural breeding capabilities at Monarto; but if successful, he could absolutely be loaned to Werribee once he’s sired a couple of calves at Monarto.

I’m hopeful (especially if natural breeding is successful) that Pak Boon at Monarto will breed at natural birth intervals. Monarto will presumably be aiming for at least two daughters from Pak Boon to give the best chances of establishing a multigenerational herd. A son would be no bad thing given Putra Mas has no sons to date and as a founder bull, his sons would have a variety of applications to the breeding programme.

 

[Jambo]

I hope that breeding from the current juveniles is prompt in that they produce their first calves around 12 years of age. Melbourne Zoo oversaw Kulab produce her first calf at 10 years of age; and Num-Oi and Mali produce their first calves at 12 years of age, so I’m hopeful they’ll follow a similar pattern with these young cows.

If we assume the next cohort is produced circa 2028 when Aiyara and Kati are five to six years old; then a follow up cohort could see them join Mali and possibly Num-Oi in producing calves a further six years down the line. They could even stagger it - with Mali and Num Oi producing calves in 2033; and Aiyara and Kati producing calves in 2034 (fresh off the bat of observing two experienced mothers birth and rear calves).

Kulab was only really given the opportunity to conceive as they wanted another calf alongside Mali for social purposes. Ideally, conceiving at the age of ten and birthing at the age of twelve is perfect and has been replicated with Melbourne's last two breeding cows - Num Oi and Mali.

I'm confident the same will be done with Aiyara and Kati with both females likely conceiving circa 2035 alongside calves from Num Oi and Mali. As has been said, this second cohort of calves born at Werribee will likely be sired by a different bull (likely one of the Sydney bulls).

 

[Zorro]

If he is able to breed naturally with Pak Boon, a bull calf from the pair would be of great value regionally and Werribee would be a strong candidate to receive said bull once it matures.

However, in the event Putra Mas and Pak Boon don't breed, or only daughters are produced I would hope they'd consider using AI or even transferring him down to Werribee eventually.

I agree with both you and Zoofan however I just hope his transfer to Monarto is successful, This is going to be no mean feat, Once he is there (hopefully) I really don't see him being transferred out again, I hope I am wrong about this but at this point I would be happy to see him arrive at Monarto zoo in one peace!

 

[Zoofan15]

Kulab was only really given the opportunity to conceive as they wanted another calf alongside Mali for social purposes. Ideally, conceiving at the age of ten and birthing at the age of twelve is perfect and has been replicated with Melbourne's last two breeding cows - Num Oi and Mali.

I'm confident the same will be done with Aiyara and Kati with both females likely conceiving circa 2035 alongside calves from Num Oi and Mali. As has been said, this second cohort of calves born at Werribee will likely be sired by a different bull (likely one of the Sydney bulls).

Melbourne timed their first four births extremely well:

0.1 Mali (2010) to Dokkoon
1.0 Ongard (2010) to Kulab

1.0 Sanook (2013) to Num-Oi
1.0 Man Jai (2013) to Dokkoon

It was just unfortunate that Sanook died shortly before Man Jai’s passing.

Melbourne’s keepers said Luk Chai will be retired after a second cohort of calves has been produced. He will be sufficiently represented at that point.

 

[Zoofan15]

I agree with both you and Zoofan however I just hope his transfer to Monarto is successful, This is going to be no mean feat, Once he is there (hopefully) I really don't see him being transferred out again, I hope I am wrong about this but at this point I would be happy to see him arrive at Monarto zoo in one peace!

It’s entirely possible Putra Mas will remain at Monarto for life.

Melbourne’s keepers said it’s equally possible Luk Chai will remain at Werribee after he retires from breeding to fulfill a mentor role to young bulls coming through. Werribee have space for two adult bulls, so the next breeding bull (probably from Sydney) could be loaned for 12-18 months; and then returned once the cows are in calf. Roi-Yim will require space as he matures.

 

[Zorro]

Would it be known at what stage the new proposed elephant house at the Western Plains zoo is at currently perhaps still in the planning stage or further along than that?

 

[Zoofan15]

Would it be known at what stage the new proposed elephant house at the Western Plains zoo is at currently perhaps still in the planning stage or further along than that?

It definitely hasn’t progressed beyond the planning stage. When I enquired in 2023, I was told it was at least five years away. Since there’s been no updates since then, I’d assume 2028 is about the earliest we could expect it to be built.

The idea is it’ll be large enough to accomodate the entire herd indoors for an extended period over winter, so it’ll be a massive building. If reports are accurate that the current facilities lack the capacity to enable multiple cows to breed simultaneously, then I hope the new barn will at least address that. Cohorts are so beneficial to calves social development.

 

[Zorro]

It definitely hasn’t progressed beyond the planning stage. When I enquired in 2023, I was told it was at least five years away. Since there’s been no updates since then, I’d assume 2028 is about the earliest we could expect it to be built.

The idea is it’ll be large enough to accomodate the entire herd indoors for an extended period over winter, so it’ll be a massive building. If reports are accurate that the current facilities lack the capacity to enable multiple cows to breed simultaneously, then I hope the new barn will at least address that. Cohorts are so beneficial to calves social development.

This could well backfire on them if they are having very large gaps between births

 

[Zoofan15]

This could well backfire on them if they are having very large gaps between births

Unfortunately it appears likely they’ve decided to retire Thong Dee and Porntip from the breeding programme. It’s been nine and seven years respectively since their last calves and if Thong Dee were to conceive now, she’d hold the regional record for the longest birth intervals between calves (currently stands at nine years between Dokkoon’s second and third calves).

There’s a slim chance Porntip will breed again (and that the reason nothing has been announced yet is due to them staggering the birth of her and Anjalee’s calves). It would have made sense to breed from Porntip first, but Anjalee may have taken priority due to her reproductive issues.

What seems more likely is that the next calves after Anjalee’s birth this year will be her second calf around seven years from now, tying in with Kanlaya’s first calf (possibly both born 2032 if the new barn is built by then).

 

[Zorro]

Unfortunately it appears likely they’ve decided to retire Thong Dee and Porntip from the breeding programme. It’s been nine and seven years respectively since their last calves and if Thong Dee were to conceive now, she’d hold the regional record for the longest birth intervals between calves (currently stands at nine years between Dokkoon’s second and third calves).

There’s a slim chance Porntip will breed again (and that the reason nothing has been announced yet is due to them staggering the birth of her and Anjalee’s calves). It would have made sense to breed from Porntip first, but Anjalee may have taken priority due to her reproductive issues.

What seems more likely is that the next calves after Anjalee’s birth this year will be her second calf around seven years from now, tying in with Kanlaya’s first calf (possibly both born 2032 if the new barn is built by then).

That seems like a real shame if they have retired both Thong Dee and Porntip from breeding considering the amount of trouble they went to to get them imported in the first place and the sheer expense of it, Perhaps "if" this is the case to transfer both of them to Monarto zoo to kick start their breeding herd other wise its going to be a struggle for them not to mention very slow to get any breeding done if at all. Importing new cows "if" needed for Monarto would be both difficult and expensive not to mention a long drawn out process, so a transfer from Dubbo would be the most logical as an option. I must admit I am somewhat disappointed with the way the Taronga/Dubbo herd has been managed overall.

 

[Zoofan15]

That seems like a real shame if they have retired both Thong Dee and Porntip from breeding considering the amount of trouble they went to to get them imported in the first place and the sheer expense of it, Perhaps "if" this is the case to transfer both of them to Monarto zoo to kick start their breeding herd other wise its going to be a struggle for them not to mention very slow to get any breeding done if at all. Importing new cows "if" needed for Monarto would be both difficult and expensive not to mention a long drawn out process, so a transfer from Dubbo would be the most logical as an option. I must admit I am somewhat disappointed with the way the Taronga/Dubbo herd has been managed overall.

I (and many others) share your frustration with this. I’ve long been of the opinion that Thong Dee should have been sent to Monarto Safari Park in conjunction with the Taronga cows. It would give them a second viable cow to work with and allow her the chance to breed (with another founder, creating a new line).

Porntip and Kanlaya are the future of the Dubbo herd, so retaining them is reasonable enough; but Thong Dee has no daughters and therefore no ties to this herd. She could establish her own matriline is transferred to Dubbo.

 

[Zorro]

I (and many others) share your frustration with this. I’ve long been of the opinion that Thong Dee should have been sent to Monarto Safari Park in conjunction with the Taronga cows. It would give them a second viable cow to work with and allow her the chance to breed (with another founder, creating a new line).

Porntip and Kanlaya are the future of the Dubbo herd, so retaining them is reasonable enough; but Thong Dee has no daughters and therefore no ties to this herd. She could establish her own matriline is transferred to Dubbo.

Perhaps another option could of been to keep both Thong Dee and Porntip at Taronga and had them mated there (before Gung was moved) with the intent to move them both to Dubbo after a new bigger house and or yards were built in that way there would of been no crowding at Dubbo with the bonus of having bred these two cows which could be accommodated at Western Plains zoo at a later date!

 

[Zoofan15]

Perhaps another option could of been to keep both Thong Dee and Porntip at Taronga and had them mated there (before Gung was moved) with the intent to move them both to Dubbo after a new bigger house and or yards were built in that way there would of been no crowding at Dubbo with the bonus of having bred these two cows which could be accommodated at Western Plains zoo at a later date!

Thong Dee transferred to Dubbo while pregnant with Sabai, but I agree investing in facilities to better manage the herd into the future would have paid dividends.

While Anjalee was a welcome addition to the Australian population, had she gone to Monarto instead, then that too would have allowed Monarto to acquire a second viable cow (and give them a compatible companion to Burma). Dubbo could have them continued with their two breeding cows.

The problem with my idea I guess is that Putra Mas is an unproven breeder. Sending Anjalee to Dubbo allowed her the best chance to conceive.

 

[Zorro]

Thong Dee transferred to Dubbo while pregnant with Sabai, but I agree investing in facilities to better manage the herd into the future would have paid dividends.

While Anjalee was a welcome addition to the Australian population, had she gone to Monarto instead, then that too would have allowed Monarto to acquire a second viable cow (and give them a compatible companion to Burma). Dubbo could have them continued with their two breeding cows.

The problem with my idea I guess is that Putra Mas is an unproven breeder. Sending Anjalee to Dubbo allowed her the best chance to conceive.

I believe sending Anjalee to Dubbo was a good idea breeding her to a proven bull which worked out well since all other efforts before had failed her, I give them credit for that move. The thing which concerns me is the timeline for the new proposed barn, however long that's going to take overall!

 

[Jambo]

I believe sending Anjalee to Dubbo was a good idea breeding her to a proven bull which worked out well since all other efforts before had failed her, I give them credit for that move. The thing which concerns me is the timeline for the new proposed barn, however long that's going to take overall!

It's a shame that Werribee's facility hadn't been built sooner as integrating Anjalee (and Burma) with Melbourne's herd would've been a really good option and a better social situation for both cows imo.