Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025

[Tiger91]

I agree a new barn (or two) would be beneficial.

Dubbo currently has three barns:

The first barn (three stalls) was built in 1977 for the 1.4 young African elephants.

The second barn (two stalls) was built ahead of the arrival of the 1.1 African elephants in 1983.

The third barn (three stalls) was built in 2014 ahead of the transfer of the Asian elephants from Taronga.

The herd has expanded since then, with three bulls each occupying their own stall; and Anjalee due to give birth later this year.

That's essentially the issue, there elephant exhibits are all disjointed, and there is actual space not used around them they could better utilise. They should be building a new bull barn with 5 or 6 stalls. Then a larger cow barn with enough stalls to house a growing matriarchal herd. They have the zebra exhibit next to the elephants I believe slatted as land that can be used for future elephants. And you dont need an exhibit for zebras when they are on the main savannah.

There elephant yard are all barren and literally look like cattle yards with terrible water 'pools' that resemble just large concrete water troughs in the older paddocks. The paddocks have needed a revamp for a long long long time. Not only would it allow for a better utilisation of space. It would allow the paddocks to be designed in a way that can be more stimulating to the elephants them selves while being made larger.

 

[Zoofan15]

The problem is Dubbo don't have a good barn set up that will support matriarchal herd growth - the cows are housed in the newer barn (consisting of three stalls), with one adult cow in each. With Kanlaya maturing into an adult and Anjalee's calf on the way, that barn in particular is certainly beginning to run short on space.

A new, large barn like Werribee's built in place of the original barns would be great with the bulls then being able to utilise the newer barn.

Agreed. Following the move to protected contact at Zoos Victoria and Taronga, there’s been a growing emphasis on herd births - where the elephants fulfill the role of midwives and younger cows learn through observation. The old barns don’t support this process.

Compare this to Werribee, where they have movable walls to allow separation; but otherwise have the herd all in together.

 

[Jambo]

What would benefit Western plains is a complete rebuild of there elephant area. This idea that the herd needs an indoor barn for them all to fit in is absolute rubbish. Both Werribee and Monarto have harsher winters, I will die on this hill. It's nothing more than a waste of money for either an extra cafe or elephant experience. It does not benefit the elephants and wastes space.

What would be better is to build two new modern barns for night accomodation. With two paddocks for bulls with a couple of smaller musth paddocks attached. Then building two larger paddocks for the matriarchal herd. They would be Able to build larger paddocks, create a more fission and fussion holding style for the elephants. While being able to seperate bulls of when needed but having two large paddocks to have them in during the day allowing multiple bulls to be held together. Bulls are not solitary, the overwhelming majority of the live and semi cohesive groups of bulls. Which is usually headed up by a large mature bull. They then seperate out when musth hits. Western plains if it had larger bull habitats, that were actual elephant habits (I've seen cattle paddocks have more depth to them and look and function better). They would be able to house the bulls together easier.

The idea of the barn is not primarily to keep the cows inside during harsh weather, but more so giving them a large space whereby they can remain together overnight (as they would in the wild), rather than being split up into a variety of smaller spaces. Inevitably, if Dubbo do wish to continue breeding - a new barn is necessary.

There's plenty of space to expand the current elephant complex and it's simply an investment Taronga will need to be willing to take. Personally, I say if they want to build a new barn for the matriarchal herd why not redevelop the complex as a whole - add additional paddocks with more diverse terrain, viewing, water access ect. There's the space for them to double their current complex and rival Werribee's size wise if they want.

 

[Zoofan15]

That's essentially the issue, there elephant exhibits are all disjointed, and there is actual space not used around them they could better utilise. They should be building a new bull barn with 5 or 6 stalls. Then a larger cow barn with enough stalls to house a growing matriarchal herd. They have the zebra exhibit next to the elephants I believe slatted as land that can be used for future elephants. And you dont need an exhibit for zebras when they are on the main savannah.

There elephant yard are all barren and literally look like cattle yards with terrible water 'pools' that resemble just large concrete water troughs in the older paddocks. The paddocks have needed a revamp for a long long long time. Not only would it allow for a better utilisation of space. It would allow the paddocks to be designed in a way that can be more stimulating to the elephants them selves while being made larger.

Yes, it’s important Dubbo make plans to accommodate their own surplus if they wish to continue breeding. Even the US apparently have little interest in importing our surplus bulls, so it’s clear Australasian as a region will need to factor retention of male offspring into breeding recommendations. Increasing their capacity at Dubbo will enable them to breed at more regular birth intervals .

 

[Tiger91]

The idea of the barn is not primarily to keep the cows inside during harsh weather, but more so giving them a large space whereby they can remain together overnight (as they would in the wild), rather than being split up into a variety of smaller spaces. Inevitably, if Dubbo do wish to continue breeding - a new barn is necessary.

There's plenty of space to expand the current elephant complex and it's simply an investment Taronga will need to be willing to take. Personally, I say if they want to build a new barn for the matriarchal herd why not redevelop the complex as a whole - add additional paddocks with more diverse terrain, viewing, water access ect. There's the space for them to double their current complex and rival Werribee's size wise if they want.

Yes I agree with this. The new barn in its current goal last I read was to provide an indoor area to house elephants during harsh weather. More akin to the European indoor elephant houses than just a new barn. I did get the impression there would potentially be viewing. Which is comical when you look at the wether the other open range zoos have.

What they need is two new or one large barn to house the elephants over night. Not wasting space on an 'indoor area for bad weather' But an actual barn with the facilities to keep the elephants over night or for future breeding. They need to make the investment into creating a new elephant area. Werribee's is phenomenal and a redo and expansion into something like that is what western plains needs to do.

 

[Zoofan15]

Yes I agree with this. The new barn in its current goal last I read was to provide an indoor area to house elephants during harsh weather. More akin to the European indoor elephant houses than just a new barn. I did get the impression there would potentially be viewing. Which is comical when you look at the wether the other open range zoos have.

What they need is two new or one large barn to house the elephants over night. Not wasting space on an 'indoor area for bad weather' But an actual barn with the facilities to keep the elephants over night or for future breeding. They need to make the investment into creating a new elephant area. Werribee's is phenomenal and a redo and expansion into something like that is what western plains needs to do.

It will be interesting to observe the evolution of how elephants are housed going into the future as a growing emphasis is placed on the rearing of well socialised elephants (males and females).

Luk Chai is the model of a well socialised elephant and Melbourne reported no issues in him cohabiting with Man Jai.

Gung by contrast grew up at Taronga without a mentor and has never been a social bull.

 

[Tiger91]

It will be interesting to observe the evolution of how elephants are housed going into the future as a growing emphasis is placed on the rearing of well socialised elephants (males and females).

Luk Chai is the model of a well socialised elephant and Melbourne reported no issues in him cohabiting with Man Jai.

Gung by contrast grew up at Taronga without a mentor and has never been a social bull.

Bulls are not as social as cows, there not going to be around each other all the time. In the wild they will often form loose groupings of a couple of bulls that feed and travel together. In a larger exhibit you could cohabitate a couple of bulls, but the paddocks need to be ample in size enough that the bulls can seperate of. They also ideally need line of site breaks instead of baren open paddocks.

It's not something we couldn't achieve here in how we keep bulls. But it would require a new ideology of not keeping every bull in its own small paddock once they reach a certain age. Older bulls will also discipline younger bulls. Again this is natural and not something we should shy away from or not hold bulls together because they might fight. Cows also fight and do.

 

[Zoofan15]

Bulls are not as social as cows, there not going to be around each other all the time. In the wild they will often form loose groupings of a couple of bulls that feed and travel together. In a larger exhibit you could cohabitate a couple of bulls, but the paddocks need to be ample in size enough that the bulls can seperate of. They also ideally need line of site breaks instead of baren open paddocks.

It's not something we couldn't achieve here in how we keep bulls. But it would require a new ideology of not keeping every bull in its own small paddock once they reach a certain age. Older bulls will also discipline younger bulls. Again this is natural and not something we should shy away from or not hold bulls together because they might fight. Cows also fight and do.

The ideal would be a paddocks large enough to afford bulls space, while allowing for separation (via yards and smaller exhibits) during musth and other periods of time where separation is essential.

The common method seems to be to allow a bull into with the herd to mate; but when there’s multiple cows that aren’t the target for impregnation, it may be worth having a yard specifically for the purpose of mating. Dubbo currently has one with two swing gates (to enable to the cow to escape the bull if she wishes).

 

[Jambo]

Bulls are not as social as cows, there not going to be around each other all the time. In the wild they will often form loose groupings of a couple of bulls that feed and travel together. In a larger exhibit you could cohabitate a couple of bulls, but the paddocks need to be ample in size enough that the bulls can seperate of. They also ideally need line of site breaks instead of baren open paddocks.

It's not something we couldn't achieve here in how we keep bulls. But it would require a new ideology of not keeping every bull in its own small paddock once they reach a certain age. Older bulls will also discipline younger bulls. Again this is natural and not something we should shy away from or not hold bulls together because they might fight. Cows also fight and do.

I do agree - and this could be achieved through implementing a variety of barriers within the exhibit, when it comes to varying terrain or natural barriers (such as water, trees, rocks ect.) throughout the exhibit. A lot of European exhibits do this well and have consequently been able to display their bulls together in set ups far more often than not.

I think we were very fortunate to have two very social bulls in Luk Chai and Man Jai get along well and be able to spend almost every day together; however this is something we can't grow to expect and I do believe that there is an innovative solution out there that can resolve our issues with housing bulls together (even those that may not be the most social).

 

[Tiger91]

I do agree - and this could be achieved through implementing a variety of barriers within the exhibit, when it comes to varying terrain or natural barriers (such as water, trees, rocks ect.) throughout the exhibit. A lot of European exhibits do this well and have consequently been able to display their bulls together in set ups far more often than not.

I think we were very fortunate to have two very social bulls in Luk Chai and Man Jai get along well and be able to spend almost every day together; however this is something we can't grow to expect and I do believe that there is an innovative solution out there that can resolve our issues with housing bulls together (even those that may not be the most social).

Look if there's one thing our zoos love its a bit of faux rock!.

More seriously, I do like the design seen in some zoos where the faux rock is used as a garden bed. Where you have the rock then have trees etc planted in the top. It works as a good line of sight break that can be nicer to look at and add enrichment to the paddocks.

There's a lot we could learn from Europe in keeping elephants. Werribee has utilised this and it shows in there new complex. Which makes western plains look very dated.

 

[Zoofan15]

Look if there's one thing our zoos love its a bit of faux rock!.

More seriously, I do like the design seen in some zoos where the faux rock is used as a garden bed. Where you have the rock then have trees etc planted in the top. It works as a good line of sight break that can be nicer to look at and add enrichment to the paddocks.

There's a lot we could learn from Europe in keeping elephants. Werribee has utilised this and it shows in there new complex. Which makes western plains look very dated.

Taking inspiration from European herds (and husbandry guidelines), one change observed in the region (assisted by breeding the species since 2009) is the evolution of related, multigenerational herds. They’re still a melting pot of matrilines (at both Dubbo and Werribee), but it’s a huge progression from the days of keeping pairs or trios of elephants at city zoos - and fantastic to see.

Monarto will too see the evolution of this if Pak Boon can successfully breed/produce daughters.

 

[Jambo]

Taking inspiration from European herds (and husbandry guidelines), one change observed in the region (assisted by breeding the species since 2009) is the evolution of related, multigenerational herds. They’re still a melting pot of matrilines (at both Dubbo and Werribee), but it’s a huge progression from the days of keeping pairs or trios of elephants at city zoos - and fantastic to see.

Monarto will too see the evolution of this if Pak Boon can successfully breed/produce daughters.

Would be great if *cough cough* Taronga actually allowed their cows to produce matrilines!!

It would be a huge shame if Pak Boon doesn't end up conceiving at Monarto and Taronga end up with just a single surviving female calf from their initial four founding females, with two being entirely unrepresented.

 

[Zorro]

Would be great if *cough cough* Taronga actually allowed their cows to produce matrilines!!

It would be a huge shame if Pak Boon doesn't end up conceiving at Monarto and Taronga end up with just a single surviving female calf from their initial four founding females, with two being entirely unrepresented.

It appears that the Taronga/Dubbo herd is lagging more and more behind the Werribee herd and at the end of the day it goes back to the management decisions. I believe they could have done better and who knows how long its going to be before TWPZ gets the new barn and any new paddocks, in the meantime the clock is ticking with the cows that could be bred before they get post reproductive

 

[Zoofan15]

It appears that the Taronga/Dubbo herd is lagging more and more behind the Werribee herd and at the end of the day it goes back to the management decisions. I believe they could have done better and who knows how long its going to be before TWPZ gets the new barn and any new paddocks, in the meantime the clock is ticking with the cows that could be bred before they get post reproductive

The biggest blow to Taronga’s programme was the loss of the adolescent female Tukta (2010-2018). She was born the same year as Zoos Victoria’s Mali, who was their sole surviving female calf until the birth of the latest cohort. It’s not hard to imagine she would have bred by now had she still been alive.

Melbourne Zoo had 3.2 calves born between 2010-2016. Three are now deceased; one was exported; and one remains (and has bred).

Taronga Zoo by comparison had 4.2 calves born between 2009-2018. Two are now deceased; one was transferred out; and three remains (none have bred).

 

[Zorro]

The biggest blow to Taronga’s programme was the loss of the adolescent female Tukta (2010-2018). She was born the same year as Zoos Victoria’s Mali, who was their sole surviving female calf until the birth of the latest cohort. It’s not hard to imagine she would have bred by now had she still been alive.

Melbourne Zoo had 3.2 calves born between 2010-2016. Three are now deceased; one was exported; and one remains (and has bred).

Taronga Zoo by comparison had 4.2 calves born between 2009-2018. Two are now deceased; one was transferred out; and three remains (none have bred).

As you rightly pointed out they have had some bad luck and very few female calfs born hopefully they won't compound the problem by letting fertile cows go unbred to long who could have produced some female calfs to carry on the different lines they currently have. It would be a real shame to see the Werribee herd going from strength to strength while the Dubbo herd starts to regress backwards after getting away from such a wonderful beginning!

 

[Zoofan15]

As you rightly pointed out they have had some bad luck and very few female calfs born hopefully they won't compound the problem by letting fertile cows go unbred to long who could have produced some female calfs to carry on the different lines they currently have. It would be a real shame to see the Werribee herd going from strength to strength while the Dubbo herd starts to regress backwards after getting away from such a wonderful beginning!

I agree. It would be of huge benefit to breed from Porntip again as otherwise the continuation of her line depends on the survival of her six year old daughter, which is by no means guaranteed (even with advances in the EEHV vaccine trial).

If Anjalee produces a female calf, that will at least give Dubbo a second line to build on.

It appears Thong Dee will never have the opportunity to establish her own matriline, though she is the most well represented female founder - with five living descendants; and Luk Chai tipped to sire three more calves within the coming years. It’s a shame to see her effectively retired from breeding after her last calf at 19 years, but if any cow was to be retired, I can understand why her.

 

[Jambo]

The biggest blow to Taronga’s programme was the loss of the adolescent female Tukta (2010-2018). She was born the same year as Zoos Victoria’s Mali, who was their sole surviving female calf until the birth of the latest cohort. It’s not hard to imagine she would have bred by now had she still been alive.

Melbourne Zoo had 3.2 calves born between 2010-2016. Three are now deceased; one was exported; and one remains (and has bred).

Taronga Zoo by comparison had 4.2 calves born between 2009-2018. Two are now deceased; one was transferred out; and three remains (none have bred).

Even if Tukta hadn't bred by this point, she still would've only been fairly young (just over 14) and would've likely provided Monarto with a potential second breeding cow, and a better foundation for the establishment of a matriarchal herd there.

Both Melbourne and Taronga effectively achieved the same success breeding wise - Melbourne just had unfortunate luck breeding wise and have made up for it as of late. Taronga however, seem to be going down the wrong trajectory if the decision has been made to not breed from Thong Dee and Porntip again (primarily for spatial reasons).

If Taronga really do need all of the space they can - transfer Sabai down to Werribee in the meantime, where there is space. He could then be swapped out for one of the Sydney bulls once he matures.

 

[Zoofan15]

Even if Tukta hadn't bred by this point, she still would've only been fairly (just over 14) and would've likely provided Monarto with a potential second breeding cow, and a better foundation for the establishment of a matriarchal herd there.

Both Melbourne and Taronga effectively achieved the same success breeding wise - Melbourne just had unfortunate luck breeding wise and have made up for it as of late. Taronga however, seem to be going down the wrong trajectory if the decision has been made to not breed from Thong Dee and Porntip again (primarily for spatial reasons).

If Taronga really do need all of the space they can - transfer Sabai down to Werribee in the meantime, where there is space. He could then be swapped out for one of the Sydney bulls once he matures.

It would have been nice to have seen Luk Chai and Sabai reunited at Werribee, as well as freeing up space at Taronga Western Plains Zoo. My guess is Zoos Victoria are reluctant to acquire an additional bull that has no application to their breeding programme given there’s no guarantee they’ll be able to shift him in a decade’s time when they need to bring in the new bull.

Depending on how the relationship between the Sydney bulls evolves, they may even want their bull back (i.e. it might be a loan of 12-18 months) if they feel there’s a chance they could be reintegrated. Whether they’d even go together to Werribee would depend on how well they’re getting on by that stage. They have a close relationship now but things can change.

 

[Jambo]

It would have been nice to have seen Luk Chai and Sabai reunited at Werribee, as well as freeing up space at Taronga Western Plains Zoo. My guess is Zoos Victoria are reluctant to acquire an additional bull that has no application to their breeding programme given there’s no guarantee they’ll be able to shift him in a decade’s time when they need to bring in the new bull.

Depending on how the relationship between the Sydney bulls evolves, they may even want their bull back (i.e. it might be a loan of 12-18 months) if they feel there’s a chance they could be reintegrated. Whether they’d even go together to Werribee would depend on how well they’re getting on by that stage. They have a close relationship now but things can change.

It would be much better if the region operated cohesively rather than as individual facilities - so in this case Werribee should be willing to take on Sabai for the better of the program!

From what I understand, Sydney are keen to move one or both of their bulls out eventually when they're desired by the regional breeding program. Considering their representation, I'd be surprised if we see both moved out (and to two different facilities), but it's possible that if they're still close, they could both be transferred to Werribee together with a pair of Werribee's bulls going to Sydney.

 

[Zoofan15]

It would be much better if the region operated cohesively rather than as individual facilities - so in this case Werribee should be willing to take on Sabai for the better of the program!

From what I understand, Sydney are keen to move one or both of their bulls out eventually when they're desired by the regional breeding program. Considering their representation, I'd be surprised if we see both moved out (and to two different facilities), but it's possible that if they're still close, they could both be transferred to Werribee together with a pair of Werribee's bulls going to Sydney.

I agree. It would have been so much better if Australia Zoo had acquired Indian/Sri Lankan elephants rather than Sumatran elephants; and if Taronga had sent Sydney Zoo bulls elephants. At a minimum, they could have transferred over Pathi Harn, with Sabai then joining him in a few years.

Ultimately, I feel like a lot will rest on Putra Mas’ success as a natural breeder at Monarto. If he’s incapable of mounting their cows, a decision will need to be made whether to go the AI route (which I think is the most likely); or whether to transfer over either Pathi Harn or a Dublin bull.