Australasian Western Lowland Gorilla Population

[Jambo]

Nothing’s been announced yet.

There’s basically two ways it could go:

1) Transfer over Frala and Mbeli from Taronga
2) Import females from Europe

If the first option, then it’s possible we could hear something within the next month or two.

If the second option, an import could be anything up to a year away. No imports were planned as of my visit 16 months ago and they wouldn’t have been expecting the death of a prime aged female, so this has very much come out of left field.

There was talk of acquiring at least one female from Europe recently, but it remains unknown whether Melbourne were actively looking into that prior to Kimya's death or whether they were still in the foundation stages.

Anyhow, now it's likely a pair of females will be coming across, so whether that changes anything on the European side of things. Ie. whether they'll now need to consider a pair of females remains to be foreseen. It would be much easier to acquire two females from the same troop.

 

[Zoofan15]

There was talk of acquiring at least one female from Europe recently, but it remains unknown whether Melbourne were actively looking into that prior to Kimya's death or whether they were still in the foundation stages.

Anyhow, now it's likely a pair of females will be coming across, so whether that changes anything on the European side of things. Ie. whether they'll now need to consider a pair of females remains to be foreseen. It would be much easier to acquire two females from the same troop.

Assuming imports from Europe, I would definitely expect it to be a pair as Kanzi is not anticipated to remain in Melbourne’s troop long term. Given the size of the exhibit, two breeding females would be ideal - with breeding recommendations given to allow 4-5 offspring to be produced between them in the coming years.

The sporadic breeding (especially at Melbourne) has largely contributed to the issues we have now. In addition to there being no male offspring to transition Otana into a bachelor troop, there’s a single adolescent between all the holders eligible for transfer.

 

[Jambo]

Assuming imports from Europe, I would definitely expect it to be a pair as Kanzi is not anticipated to remain in Melbourne’s troop long term. Given the size of the exhibit, two breeding females would be ideal - with breeding recommendations given to allow 4-5 offspring to be produced between them in the coming years.

The sporadic breeding (especially at Melbourne) has largely contributed to the issues we have now. In addition to there being no male offspring to transition Otana into a bachelor troop, there’s a single adolescent between all the holders eligible for transfer.

Yes, two females will now be the priority. I had wondered whether in the event a female had already been chosen; whether consideration would be put towards just acquiring that female, and another female from a different troop.

On a global scale, troops in the past have been founded on multiple unrelated females (and a silverback), however considering Otana's past I wonder whether they'll consider it preferable to have two females from the same troop so they'd have each other's support during introductions.

 

[Zoofan15]

Yes, two females will now be the priority. I had wondered whether in the event a female had already been chosen; whether consideration would be put towards just acquiring that female, and another female from a different troop.

On a global scale, troops in the past have been founded on multiple unrelated females (and a silverback), however considering Otana's past I wonder whether they'll consider it preferable to have two females from the same troop so they'd have each other's support during introductions.

Considering Otana is the silverback, I’d 100% consider it a wise contingency to introduce two females you can rely on to support each other versus unrelated females who could compound the issue by siding with Otana against the other. This approach is often taken with chimpanzees.

To offset the issue of breeding two related females (likely sisters or half sisters) with the same male, they could introduce the pair and then transfer one out in 2-3 years once she’s established in the troop. That said, demographically speaking, Melbourne wouldn’t be in a position to spare females (and receiving one in exchange presents the issue above).

 

[Jambo]

Considering Otana is the silverback, I’d 100% consider it a wise contingency to introduce two females you can rely on to support each other versus unrelated females who could compound the issue by siding with Otana against the other. This approach is often taken with chimpanzees.

To offset the issue of breeding two related females (likely sisters or half sisters) with the same male, they could introduce the pair and then transfer one out in 2-3 years once she’s established in the troop. That said, demographically speaking, Melbourne wouldn’t be in a position to spare females (and receiving one in exchange presents the issue above).

Even in those cases I mention (surrounding introducing unrelated females to found a troop), the same issues were encountered in certain females being highly ambitious and therefore playing the other female off against the silverback.

This can work, in larger troops, with a perhaps a more competent silverback but obviously with Otana this is the great unknown and considering the only other female in the troop will be his daughter, Kanzi, his focus will largely be on any new females upon their arrival. Even in the cases I remember, it was usually three or four new females introduced meaning they all began on the same foot essentially.

 

[Zoofan15]

Even in those cases I mention (surrounding introducing unrelated females to found a troop), the same issues were encountered in certain females being highly ambitious and therefore playing the other female off against the silverback.

This can work, in larger troops, with a perhaps a more competent silverback but obviously with Otana this is the great unknown and considering the only other female in the troop will be his daughter, Kanzi, his focus will largely be on any new females upon their arrival. Even in the cases I remember, it was usually three or four new females introduced meaning they all began on the same foot essentially.

It’s such a fine line to tread as too many females (or females who have a close relationship) can gang up on the silverback. This has been a problem with inexperienced silverbacks like Mzuri at Jersey.

There was even a concern Frala (a strong personality) would overwhelm Kibali, but these fears were unfounded. Like Mouila transitioning from Bongo’s troop to Kibabu’s in the late 80’s, she made the move with dignity and acceptance.

Kibabu was described as a near perfect leader and that’s an excellent way to describe him. Mouila was his favourite female; but he always showed special care towards Frala following the births of her infants and was overall a fair and respected leader.

 

[Pertinax]

I was correct in my assumption of the early groupings of Taronga’s gorillas. This article below further details the exhibits that the gorillas moved into in 1964. I thought this would be of interest to @Pertinax, who was enquiring about this the other day. The gorillas were presumably held in the cage block housing chimpanzees and orangutans prior to this.

It was hoped this would encourage breeding and indeed it was reported in 1969 that it was thought Mary was pregnant two years prior (1967), which turned out to be a false alarm. Of course we know now that housing in 1.1 pairs was far from ideal with regards to promoting breeding (in addition to at least one of the males, Buluman being sterile).

Further Information on Taronga’s Early Gorillas

Groupings:

Three gorilla couples at Taronga Park will move into the zoo's most modern home units.

The couples who will occupy them are George and Mary; Annabel and Buluman; and Little John and Betsy.

George and Mary, and Annabel and Buluman, are already living together as householders. Little John and Betsy have met each other"according to zoo chief Sir Edward Hallstrom—but have yet to be introduced to domestic bliss.

Description of accomodation:

At the rear, flanking a small hall, are two separate night cages, each with a bed made of wooden slats. The gorillas will make their own beds each night, padding them with mattresses of wood wool shavings. , Refrigerators in the flats will keep fresh the milk, eggs and fruit on which the big gorillas

The flats have underfloor heating,' sinks with hot and cold water, and are painted in restful pastel colours.

Each has a large "living room" at the front, with a glass wall through which visitors will be able to watch the gorillas playing. The play area is equipped with tables and climbing bars, and the gorillas will be given heavy, unbreakable toys.

Source: Sydney Morning Herald (Sunday, January 19, 1964).

Thanks for posting. I know its all a very long time ago now and knowledge was limited, but clearly they would have been far better to let all six be together, to stimulate social( and later) sexual interest, than in these pairings which often supress sexual interest. Obviously if all six had grown to maturity, then two of the males would eventually have had to be removed, but they would have had far more potential with them that way.
Little John at four years old would have been the most likely( if he wasn't damaged by mumps that is) to breed, being older than the others, that's how the first breeding at Columbus took place- older male with younger female.

Its interesting how Taronga also had six gorillas like that in an era when singles or pairs were the norm in most zoos worldwide that had them.

 

[Zoofan15]

Thanks for posting. I know its all a very long time ago now and knowledge was limited, but clearly they would have been far better to let all six be together, to stimulate social( and later) sexual interest, than in these pairings which often supress sexual interest. Obviously if all six had grown to maturity, then two of the males would eventually have had to be removed, but they would have had far more potential with them that way.
Little John at four years old would have been the most likely( if he wasn't damaged by mumps that is) to breed, being older than the others, that's how the first breeding at Columbus took place- older male with younger female.

Its interesting how Taronga also had six gorillas like that in an era when singles or pairs were the norm in most zoos worldwide that had them.

Especially with financing from Sir Edward Hallstrom, Taronga was in a position to purchase large numbers of animals and no doubt saw the acquisition of six young gorillas as a wise contingency should some die. This method was effective with chimpanzees, seeing them establish the most successful captive breeding colony in the world for their time.

Interestingly, a 1953 article detailing the arrival of Common chimpanzee and Mandrill noted the dealer had caught eight gorillas for Taronga the year prior. There was a requirement to quarantine them in the Canary Islands for three months (concern of Yellow Fever) during which time they all died. Taronga potentially could have ended up with eight gorillas circa 1953!

 

[Jambo]

A surplus of female gorillas in Europe that never seem to find there way to Australia where they are really needed

At the end of the day it comes down to recommendations. For some reason, Melbourne never had a recommendation to acquire additional females (I have my own personal speculation as to why), but this is absolutely something they're looking at now.

 

[Zorro]

At the end of the day it comes down to recommendations. For some reason, Melbourne never had a recommendation to acquire additional females (I have my own personal speculation as to why), but this is absolutely something they're looking at now.

Surely at the end of the day someone is in charge or has some control of the species in the region?

 

[Jambo]

Surely at the end of the day someone is in charge or has some control of the species in the region?

Since we operate as extension to the EEP, it is essentially the EEP who make any decisions as to whether we receive new gorillas (or do not), in coordination with the ZAA.

 

[Zorro]

Since we operate as extension to the EEP, it is essentially the EEP who make any decisions as to whether we receive new gorillas (or do not), in coordination with the ZAA.

So it appears that our end were asleep at the wheel!

 

[Zoofan15]

At the end of the day it comes down to recommendations. For some reason, Melbourne never had a recommendation to acquire additional females (I have my own personal speculation as to why), but this is absolutely something they're looking at now.

The only justification for not importing gorillas for Melbourne’s troop sooner is allowing Orana time to mature into the silverback role. He took up leadership of the troop as an inexperienced black back and was clearly overwhelmed by the role. Adding new females could have compounded his stress.

We’ve now reached the point more females are critical and Otana is now in his 20’s. I would expect to see a minimum of two females arrive within the year.

 

[Jambo]

The only justification for not importing gorillas for Melbourne’s troop sooner is allowing Orana time to mature into the silverback role. He took up leadership of the troop as an inexperienced black back and was clearly overwhelmed by the role. Adding new females could have compounded his stress.

We’ve now reached the point more females are critical and Otana is now in his 20’s. I would expect to see a minimum of two females arrive within the year.

Prior to Kimya's death, there was interest in at least one female to join Melbourne's troop. I'd imagine now, at least two females will be the priority. And should indeed arrive this year.

 

[Zoofan15]

Prior to Kimya's death, there was interest in at least one female to join Melbourne's troop. I'd imagine now, at least two females will be the priority. And should indeed arrive this year.

The logical way to proceed is to transfer over Frala and Mbeli from Taronga Zoo; and send Kanzi in return to join Kibale and Johari in a breeding troop. This would provide both zoos with breeding troops of 1.2 gorillas and allow up to three females the opportunity to breed (depending on whether Frala is to remain retired from breeding).

This would ensure Mbeli is paired with a different male to produce her next infant; and allow Johari to remain in a troop with a silverback that tolerates her. Kanzi has no breeding application in Melbourne’s troop, but could breed at Taronga.

Taronga would have to seperate off their adolescent males at this point (which is inevitable anyway), who would ideally transfer out in the future.

 

[Jambo]

This is the beauty of it while at the Melbourne zoo they were in a paddock like it or not ,but now they can choose any where they want to go whenever they want to something they could never have had before. I also like the idea of the now hands off approach let themselves sort themselves out like they do in the wild that's got to be so much better for them. Without sounding negative I wish now they could turn this success now towards building something for the Gorillas, now they have dwindled now to just two animals them let do the same now for Gorillas they have shown how they got it so right for elephants now get it right for Gorillas especially now they have a lot of extra room now the elephants have vacated!

The luxury that Werribee has in this case is space. A luxury Melbourne does not have, so whilst I would love to see a world class complex for Gorillas at Melbourne, I struggle to see where the space would be for this without further taking away space that is currently dedicated to other species.

Imo one option I'm a fan of is moving the breeding group across to Werribee, and expanding the complex there to include a second enclosure; and potential aerial pathways that they could access - similar to Philadelphia. Melbourne could then still retain their current exhibit; which is still world class to be fair, and hold their bachelor group there where a redevelopment wouldn't be necessary anytime soon.

 

[Zorro]

The luxury that Werribee has in this case is space. A luxury Melbourne does not have, so whilst I would love to see a world class complex for Gorillas at Melbourne, I struggle to see where the space would be for this without further taking away space that is currently dedicated to other species.

Imo one option I'm a fan of is moving the breeding group across to Werribee, and expanding the complex there to include a second enclosure; and potential aerial pathways that they could access - similar to Philadelphia. Melbourne could then still retain their current exhibit; which is still world class to be fair, and hold their bachelor group there where a redevelopment wouldn't be necessary anytime soon.

That's is an excellent idea indeed!

 

[Zoofan15]

The luxury that Werribee has in this case is space. A luxury Melbourne does not have, so whilst I would love to see a world class complex for Gorillas at Melbourne, I struggle to see where the space would be for this without further taking away space that is currently dedicated to other species.

Imo one option I'm a fan of is moving the breeding group across to Werribee, and expanding the complex there to include a second enclosure; and potential aerial pathways that they could access - similar to Philadelphia. Melbourne could then still retain their current exhibit; which is still world class to be fair, and hold their bachelor group there where a redevelopment wouldn't be necessary anytime soon.

Either way it would be good to see more regular breeding at Melbourne Zoo (and the region in general). Not only will there be a surplus of females that can be transferred between troops, it creates more opportunities to create bachelor troops of adolescent males.

Otana is the best example of a male who can’t feasibly move into a bachelor troop. Had he had the opportunity to sire infants to more than one female, he’d surely have sons at this point. Kaius is potentially another example. His sibling (three years his junior) is female and there’s no guarantee Kipenzi’s next infant will be male either. Let’s hope Mogo get a new female sooner rather than later and Taronga and Melbourne undertake the obvious swap I outlined previously of Frala and Mbeli for Kanzi.

One of the biggest blows to the region was Adelaide turning on a sixpence to decide not to acquire gorillas, which in conjunction with Sydney Zoo canning their plans to acquire them (widely reported to have been Orana’s males) also a great loss of a potential holder.

 

[Zorro]

Either way it would be good to see more regular breeding at Melbourne Zoo (and the region in general). Not only will there be a surplus of females that can be transferred between troops, it creates more opportunities to create bachelor troops of adolescent males.

Otana is the best example of a male who can’t feasibly move into a bachelor troop. Had he had the opportunity to sire infants to more than one female, he’d surely have sons at this point. Kaius is potentially another example. His sibling (three years his junior) is female and there’s no guarantee Kipenzi’s next infant will be male either. Let’s hope Mogo get a new female sooner rather than later and Taronga and Melbourne undertake the obvious swap I outlined previously of Frala and Mbeli for Kanzi.

One of the biggest blows to the region was Adelaide turning on a sixpence to decide not to acquire gorillas, which in conjunction with Sydney Zoo canning their plans to acquire them (widely reported to have been Orana’s males) also a great loss of a potential holder.

Just to add Adelaide also doing a U turn with Sri Lankan Leopards and also not importing a female Pygmy Hippo (waiting now for someone else to breed one)

 

[Zoofan15]

Just to add Adelaide also doing a U turn with Sri Lankan Leopards and also not importing a female Pygmy Hippo (waiting now for someone else to breed one)

That was equally disappointing.

Adelaide were reportedly planning to exhibit a family/breeding troop of gorilla, so it’s no stretch to imagine a bachelor troop (comprised of male infants born in said troop) would later make its way to Monarto.

The export of Orana’s males to Sydney Zoo would have freed them up to bring in a breeding troop, which in turn could have supplied Taronga and Melbourne with adolescent females in the coming years. Orana’s financial situation played a role in these plans being cancelled sadly, but would have been of immeasurable benefit to the region.