Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025

[Zoofan15]

Questions/Confirmation Needed

I thought it would be useful to list unanswered questions we have about the region’s elephants that people visiting the respective zoos and willing to ask questions could then ask.

Many of these we have formed our own assumptions, but confirmation from those working in the industry (in many cases with the elephants directly) would be helpful.

1. Monarto’s breeding plans. Confirmation Monarto intend to breed; whether they’ve ruled out breeding from Tang Mo (given Berlin advising Taronga it was non-viable); and whether they’d resort to AI if Putra Mas doesn’t naturally breed.

2. Updates on Dubbo’s plans to build a matriarchal herd barn (believed to be at least three years away).

3. Whether there’s any intention of transferring Sabai out of Dubbo (perhaps to join Luk Chai at Werribee).

4. Confirmation Thong Dee and Porntip have been removed from the breeding programme at Dubbo.

5. Whether Australia Zoo still plan to import a bull (widely believed to no longer be going ahead).

6. Werribee’s future plans beyond a cohort of calves from Luk Chai circa 2028 i.e. a replacement bull from Sydney Zoo (probably too early for keepers to give a definitive answer).

 

[ZCChip]

I think we can possibly have an answer to the potential AI. Who does the AI in Australia? Specialists from Germany I believe? If so that can get expensive and timing will be hard with the short time the cow is receptive.

 

[Zorro]

I think we can possibly have an answer to the potential AI. Who does the AI in Australia? Specialists from Germany I believe? If so that can get expensive and timing will be hard with the short time the cow is receptive.

Yes the German team have traveled to Australia many times, I believe Putra Mas is very unlikely to breed naturally and he has only the one living calf so far at Dubbo

 

[Zorro]

Questions/Confirmation Needed

I thought it would be useful to list unanswered questions we have about the region’s elephants that people visiting the respective zoos and willing to ask questions could then ask.

Many of these we have formed our own assumptions, but confirmation from those working in the industry (in many cases with the elephants directly) would be helpful.

1. Monarto’s breeding plans. Confirmation Monarto intend to breed; whether they’ve ruled out breeding from Tang Mo (given Berlin advising Taronga it was non-viable); and whether they’d resort to AI if Putra Mas doesn’t naturally breed.

2. Updates on Dubbo’s plans to build a matriarchal herd barn (believed to be at least three years away).

3. Whether there’s any intention of transferring Sabai out of Dubbo (perhaps to join Luk Chai at Werribee).

4. Confirmation Thong Dee and Porntip have been removed from the breeding programme at Dubbo.

5. Whether Australia Zoo still plan to import a bull (widely believed to no longer be going ahead).

6. Werribee’s future plans beyond a cohort of calves from Luk Chai circa 2028 i.e. a replacement bull from Sydney Zoo (probably too early for keepers to give a definitive answer).

As to number 5. I will stick my neck out and say very unlikely to happen!

 

[Zoofan15]

I think we can possibly have an answer to the potential AI. Who does the AI in Australia? Specialists from Germany I believe? If so that can get expensive and timing will be hard with the short time the cow is receptive.

Yes the German team have traveled to Australia many times, I believe Putra Mas is very unlikely to breed naturally and he has only the one living calf so far at Dubbo

The Berlin team has overseen/led the AI attempts across all zoos in the region that have attempted to breed their elephants (Auckland, Perth, Taronga, Melbourne and Dubbo).

In some cases, AI has been undertaken out of necessity (Bong Su at Melbourne Zoo was a behavioural non-breeder); and other times for the purpose of promoting genetic diversity in the herd (Porntip’s calves; acknowledging the other reason was waiting for Gung to grow in stature).

Although the regional focus will now be on natural breeding, it may be worth undertaking AI with at least one more cow using Putra Mas as a donor if he’s unable to sire calves to Pak Boon.

 

[Zoofan15]

As to number 5. I will stick my neck out and say very unlikely to happen!

I’m inclined to agree at this stage. Their initial plans to import two bulls would have sustained their herd breeding wise for decades, but unfortunately even now the Covid restrictions have long cleared, there’s no apparent intention of resuming planning for this import.

Ultimately, Australia Zoo would have been better off supporting the regional breeding programme by holding Indian/Sri Lankan elephants.

 

[Zorro]

I’m inclined to agree at this stage. Their initial plans to import two bulls would have sustained their herd breeding wise for decades, but unfortunately even now the Covid restrictions have long cleared, there’s no apparent intention of resuming planning for this import.

Ultimately, Australia Zoo would have been better off supporting the regional breeding programme by holding Indian/Sri Lankan elephants.

If they were serious they could have imported 1. 3. to start with

 

[Zoofan15]

If they were serious they could have imported 1. 3. to start with

That would have been a better way to do it; or ensured a couple of the cows were in calf when they imported them, which would have given them time to build the build barn/protected contact facilities needed to manage a bull on site.

The two older cows are now past prime first time breeding age, with a decreasing window for breeding with the younger two:

0.1 Megawati (19/07/1999)
0.1 Widya (21/05/2001)
0.1 Christina (01/12/2009)
0.1 Raflesia (00/11/2014)

 

[Zorro]

That would have been a better way to do it; or ensured a couple of the cows were in calf when they imported them, which would have given them time to build the build barn/protected contact facilities needed to manage a bull on site.

The two older cows are now past prime first time breeding age, with a decreasing window for breeding with the younger two:

0.1 Megawati (19/07/1999)
0.1 Widya (21/05/2001)
0.1 Christina (01/12/2009)
0.1 Raflesia (00/11/2014)

As with many of their plans and ideas seem to dwindle down or disappear altogether, It comes as no surprise, I would not be surprised if they were only intended to be display animals to draw in the public?. I can not recall any building or structure for the original 3 circus cows they may not have had anything that I can recall!

 

[Jambo]

As with many of their plans and ideas seem to dwindle down or disappear altogether, It comes as no surprise, I would not be surprised if they were only intended to be display animals to draw in the public?. I can not recall any building or structure for the original 3 circus cows they may not have had anything that I can recall!

No doubt - I wouldn't be surprised if 'breeding' was just a word thrown out there to provide rationale for their import.

Obviously Australia Zoo wanted elephants following the loss of their last Bullen's girls in 2013; and it's likely they would have had to wait quite a long time if they wanted another herd, whether that was to be from within the region or even from overseas.

If they were to end up acquiring a bull they would also have to find a way to deal with any surplus bulls born. Which would be a huge investment.

 

[ZCChip]

As with many of their plans and ideas seem to dwindle down or disappear altogether, It comes as no surprise, I would not be surprised if they were only intended to be display animals to draw in the public?. I can not recall any building or structure for the original 3 circus cows they may not have had anything that I can recall!

They may be more focused on fending off advances on the young man Irwin after his modeling in underwear all over social media!

 

[Zoofan15]

No doubt - I wouldn't be surprised if 'breeding' was just a word thrown out there to provide rationale for their import.

Obviously Australia Zoo wanted elephants following the loss of their last Bullen's girls in 2013; and it's likely they would have had to wait quite a long time if they wanted another herd, whether that was to be from within the region or even from overseas.

If they were to end up acquiring a bull they would also have to find a way to deal with any surplus bulls born. Which would be a huge investment.

The cows also would have been desirable as they were initially managed in full contact, only later switching to protected contact.

Like you say, Australia Zoo would have to accomodate their own surplus as the other zoos in the region are focussed on the Indian/Sri Lankan subspecies and unwilling to hybridise.

Bringing over two of the cows in calf would have been a compromise between importing a bull/s and never breeding. If they was really lucky, they could have welcomed two female calves; but even a male calf could have been built purpose built bull facilities as he matured. They hype surrounding an elephant calf at Australia Zoo would have at least partly offset the costs of this and potentially been a worthy investment by the zoo. They can’t give their animals decent names to save themselves, but they can certainly market their product like no other. The elephant calf would have had a cringe name and a huge social media following.

They may be more focused on fending off advances on the young man Irwin after his modeling in underwear all over social media!

That was more of Robert than I needed/wanted to see.

A few Australian zoos have since taken inspiration to do their own photo shoots, like it’s a social media trend or something. Last time I’ve seen something on this level was the Owen Grady facing off three raptors scene replicated by about every zoo with ostriches or similar.

 

[ZCChip]

.

That was more of Robert than I needed/wanted to see..

I was being sarcastic but that zoo does seem to march to their own drum. It is all about public relations not conservation. Why do you think they want to keep cows on free contact? So they can touch them and talk about them on tv. So they had Robert model as a draw perhaps.

i wouldn’t be surprised if they admitted they never intended to have a bull behind the scenes.

 

[Zorro]

I was being sarcastic but that zoo does seem to march to their own drum. It is all about public relations not conservation. Why do you think they want to keep cows on free contact? So they can touch them and talk about them on tv. So they had Robert model as a draw perhaps.

i wouldn’t be surprised if they admitted they never intended to have a bull behind the scenes.

That's right they appear to be on the road to "where ever" the original plan of three stages never got past the first stage unfortunately, They love hype and chasing fame I avoid visiting.

 

[Zoofan15]

If Putra Mas successfully makes it, he’ll make the girls a lot more comfortable and content. Something about a bull just makes cows feel more at home. Same with humans lol

I’m predicting the cows will give Putra Mas a very warm
reception once he arrives on site at Monarto.

It’s Burma’s reaction I’m most looking forward to seeing since she was imported from a logging camp as an eight year old and hasn’t seen a bull since then (assuming there was one on site during her juvenile years).

As a side note, it’s good to see the elephants labelled correctly as ‘Asian elephant’ on Monarto’s map. That ridiculous video promoting the lodge featured African elephants and had me concerned Zoos SA’s intention was to was have them serve as ambassadors for their African counterparts; yet to be fair they’ve consistently advertised them as Asian elephants - rather than ‘elephants’ and the lodge is independently run.

 

[Zorro]

They may be more focused on fending off advances on the young man Irwin after his modeling in underwear all over social media!

Looks like he will be appearing on the tv show in the USA soon "Dancing with the stars"

 

[Jambo]

I’m predicting the cows will give Putra Mas a very warm
reception once he arrives on site at Monarto.

It’s Burma’s reaction I’m most looking forward to seeing since she was imported from a logging camp as an eight year old and hasn’t seen a bull since then (assuming there was one on site during her juvenile years).

Permai grew up with Putra Mas, so the pair are quite close and still maintain a great friendship. I'm sure Putra Mas's presence will be comforting once he does arrive at Monarto - hopefully in the coming months.

It'll also be interesting to see the reactions of the Taronga cows - especially Tang Mo who grew to be not as fond of Gung as she grew older!

Putra Mas too is a fully grown, mature bull so it will also be intriguing to see how he takes to the new cows - and he will have the opportunity to hopefully go in and interact with them on a more prominent basis (hopefully) for the first time in over a decade.

 

[Zorro]

Just an open question, I would assume that the barn/s and yards/exhibit will have cameras and 24 hour surveillance considering these elephants have arrived from 3 different locations to keep a close eye on the situation?

 

[Zoofan15]

Just an open question, I would assume that the barn/s and yards/exhibit will have cameras and 24 hour surveillance considering these elephants have arrived from 3 different locations to keep a close eye on the situation?

Yes they do. All zoos in the region have 24/7 CCTV monitoring of their elephants - both on exhibit and in the barns.

It’s useful for gauging reactions of the elephants to each other while the keepers aren’t there to observe; though at this stage they will not have direct physical contact without the staff there to intervene/seperate them if required.

 

[Zorro]

Yes they do. All zoos in the region have 24/7 CCTV monitoring of their elephants - both on exhibit and in the barns.

It’s useful for gauging reactions of the elephants to each other while the keepers aren’t there to observe; though at this stage they will not have direct physical contact without the staff there to intervene/seperate them if required.

That's good to know for sure. I would image that a couple of the Taronga elephant keepers will travel with them and stay for a couple of weeks to settle them in!