North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation
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The Horse Boy
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And they could use sand substrate for much of the barn. Based on the pics and vids I saw of Jet, they look to use either rubber or cement flooring. I'm amazed all the elephants feet held up well from it over the years.
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Frankie_number_1_fan
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It's still relatively common for older exhibits to have at least a few stalls with cement/rubber floors. I know Columbus only late last year updated theirs to be 100% sand. Saint Louis' barn, being around the same age, likely was in a similar boat.
I'm almost certian if they opted to build a new elephant complex at WildCare Park then an indoor viewing area of some kind would be implemented. It's becoming more commoplace for safari park style facilities to have indoor viewing opportunities to keep ticket sales coming in during the colder months.
All things considering, I do hope this is a path Saint Louis takes soon.
The Horse Boy
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I know I might have overgeneralized there. I just was worried the elephants might get foot and joint pain and illnesses as they have historically suffered from in captivity and died prematurely for that reason. I know the Kansas City Indianapolis and Tampa (Lowry Park) barns were built around the same time period as Saint Louis. I saw a YT video over a keeper interview over the elephant barn at Kansas City and she said they have a couple stalls with sand all the way. Indianapolis has concrete all around and so does Tampa.
The Horse Boy
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I am optimistic Tsavo will start mating the cows at Reid Park in the near future so their birth success continues growing The only uncertainty there is that he is AI born- much of these bulls have not really sired calves naturally at appropriate moments, like Ajani Louie Kedar and even Tamani. Besides that factor, he was brought up in an high end facility around the appropiate social groupings (Disney), so I'm still confident he knows the ropes of mating he's learned from Maclean in his bachelor phase. He also arrived just last fall at 16, and he's nearly 17 now., so he's still a fairly young bull. There's also no real rush on the cows end as Semba is much older than him and the 3 younger girls are a bit too young to first conceive I guess.
It's not really got anything to do with them being 'AI born', more so the limited social interaction they've had with competent bulls who've been able to demonstrate correct mating and courting behaviours.
Tsavo however has grown up in a great social situation at DAK, and has spent time with his half brothers and father so he's really in the perfect position to breed. He's very valuable on his maternal side being the only surviving offspring of his now deceased mother.
0.1 Nandi (2014) is now of perfect age to first conceive, so hopefully he's successful in mating her.
Frankie_number_1_fan
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Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (Since I never personally visited DAK during this time) but Tsavo very well could've observed natural breeding multiple times over the years. A mounting doesn't guarantee a pregnancy after all, and it's likely Mac couldve been in with him while he bred any of the cows.
As for breeding at Reid Park, they likely are going to aim for two calves in approximately 3 or so years going by their previous birthing intervals (Nandi in 2014, Penzi in 2020 and Meru in 2024). Nandi is old enough to conceive, but given Reid Park's limited capacity it makes the most sense to space births out to a reasonable degree. I'd say it's also possible they'll elect to not breed Semba again since, if I'm remembering correctly, her pregnancy with Meru was high risk.
That's intriguing to hear. Any idea why? She's not an 'old' for a mother by any means.
Frankie_number_1_fan
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"Last fall, routine monitoring of Semba alerted staff to potential medical concerns. This led the Zoo’s elephant and veterinary teams to provide extra care, including additional lab work and ultrasounds. The team began 24-hour monitoring in late November, which is a few months earlier in the pregnancy than is typical."
Here is the statement the zoo made when Meru was born. I swear I remember reading something that gave more detail but this is what I could find quickly. I would say that it's just like any mammal pregnancy, complications can suddenly arise that can deter them from giving birth successfully again. Not saying this is the case with Semba, but something to potentially consider given the Zoo's limited space as well.
Here is the statement the zoo made when Meru was born. I swear I remember reading something that gave more detail but this is what I could find quickly. I would say that it's just like any mammal pregnancy, complications can suddenly arise that can deter them from giving birth successfully again. Not saying this is the case with Semba, but something to potentially consider given the Zoo's limited space as well.
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The Horse Boy
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I know mlilo at Dallas has her first calf at 12 in 2016 and lolly omma and claire at Omaha had their first births at around 13. So it should be no big difference if Nandi conceive in the next year or two.
The Horse Boy
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What is the maximum number of elephants Reid Park can hold then?
Frankie_number_1_fan
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I'm not certain on their exact capacity, but I do know that their current exhibit is a bit over 3 acres of actual elephant space. I'd say they maybe could push into double digits but that's generous.
Point being, they have two viable cows currently and two upcoming within the next decade (assuming both survive), spacing out births is the best and only way to healthily grow their herd while not exceeding capacity, and it's gone very well for them so far!
The Horse Boy
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And tsavo's arrival helped reassure me that the barriers can withstand bulls. Even though Tucson housed a mature one (Mabu) for ten years, I was still unsure if the facility was that sturdy as I saw on vids and pics online that each areas of the cable fencing at the rear of the outdoor habitat end with two short posts on each side and the same fence that bisects that paddock is also really low. I did notice that they recently raised up the said double back poles however.
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For what it is worth: Nandi has the good age and is probably now reproductively mature enough to breed with a potential new bull on side (thank goodness it happens bc AI is just not a best route to go....). Potentially, new bull Tsavo with DAK experience of mature bull breeding over there ..., may have acquired sufficient skills to make it now on his own here.
As to San Diego WAP, I do hope they get in a bull ASAP when some of the habitat parts are fully operational and able to entertain both matriarchal breeding herd and a bull on site.
The Horse Boy
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I hope that happens right after their habitat is slated for completion later this year. The only great candiates to me would be Tendaji or Callee as they have not had any involvement with the SDSP cows. Callee might be an even better choice as Tendaji will prob stay in Dallas a little while longer to produce more calves with Mlilo or Zola and he is also able to successfully breed any female on site very quickly as with his Omaha and Sedgwick experience. Therefore Callee will have many girls he chooses to mate.
Problem is that Callee is by Jackson who has many offspring. We do not want many Callee babies! Just need a handful of females.
Wasn't there speculation as well that Tsavo may have very well already sired a calf at DAK? It was between him and Jabali I believe, as Mac was ruled out due to being said cows father + it occurring through natural breeding. That said, I believe there was also chatter about said calf possibly having been miscarried. :/
When it comes to SDZSP - I wouldn't be shocked if Musi goes back once a lot settles down. While unconfirmed - it seems very plausible that SDZSP has at least a few pregnant cows due before 2026. Furthermore, lots of construction going on. I'm going out on a limb and assuming he was transferred to SDZ as a "his job here is done for now, one less thing to worry about in the chaos" sort of thing. He is far too valuable a bull to be sitting in bachelor holding long term, especially if he is in fact a proven natural breeder now.
As for bulls such as Callee and Mabu - with all of the cows (minus one) at Sedgwick, Dallas, Omaha, and Fresno now bred to have their first calf at least, I'd agree that having them breeding isn't as dire in terms of a "we need to get these cows bred before they get too old/go too long" sense. There is still a laundry list of places that have young cows needing to have their first calf (NC, Reid Park, KC, DAK, Tampa, Pittsburgh, SDZSP all spring to mind), but there either appear to be things in the works at these places or hopefully there are things we're just unaware of. I do hope some more shuffling occurs, and we see some more double bull setups involving them as mentors/back ups.
When it comes to SDZSP - I wouldn't be shocked if Musi goes back once a lot settles down. While unconfirmed - it seems very plausible that SDZSP has at least a few pregnant cows due before 2026. Furthermore, lots of construction going on. I'm going out on a limb and assuming he was transferred to SDZ as a "his job here is done for now, one less thing to worry about in the chaos" sort of thing. He is far too valuable a bull to be sitting in bachelor holding long term, especially if he is in fact a proven natural breeder now.
As for bulls such as Callee and Mabu - with all of the cows (minus one) at Sedgwick, Dallas, Omaha, and Fresno now bred to have their first calf at least, I'd agree that having them breeding isn't as dire in terms of a "we need to get these cows bred before they get too old/go too long" sense. There is still a laundry list of places that have young cows needing to have their first calf (NC, Reid Park, KC, DAK, Tampa, Pittsburgh, SDZSP all spring to mind), but there either appear to be things in the works at these places or hopefully there are things we're just unaware of. I do hope some more shuffling occurs, and we see some more double bull setups involving them as mentors/back ups.
The Horse Boy
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That's true. Yet you could argue that Tsavo in Tucson is also Jackson's son making him Callee's half brother. So I should anticipate he'll start becoming a breeding machine like his two bull relatives.
That being said, I should imagine with the last two Sedgwick calves due later this year they will wait to have him breed each of the 5 young cows to conceive and produce 5 more calves until they do another bull swap as I said earlier in the Sedgwick news thread. I still think San Diego WAP would be an excellent choice for him, but I also can see that they might move him to Indy Dallas North Carolina Fresno or Tampa when that time comes, which i feel should be around later next year. If NC or Indy were his next places to breed, then he'd give the Louie or kedar great mating guidance which is long overdue for both boys.
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If he did impregnate some of the cows, the latest they would be due is the end of this year. It's interesting as I more so perceived the move out of necessity (ie. SP needed to move him to make space for construction). Perhaps he returns if he's gotten the job done already, but if he hasn't, I struggle to see him given another chance especially when you consider how dire the situation is with some of the cows needing to conceive asap.
Realistically, the three cows he should have been paired with are; 0.1 Khosi (2006), 0.1 Kamile (2007) and 0.1 Qinisa (2012). All cows are also Safari Park born and yet to conceive. You'd hope Khosi and Kamile at the least are already pregnant, given their ages.
The Horse Boy
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I worry about Musi's breeding prospects in general even if he ended up at a facility besides the Safari Park like Omaha. He resided with a mother daugter pair in Fresno starting when it opened nearly 10 years ago for over several years and has not impregnated them for his entire stay there. I think it was because he was still very young by the time they sent him out and there was no older bull with breeding experience to guide him, so when they acknowledged he was not breeding there, they sent him back to San Diego and was instantly traded with Mabu from Tucson and he got the job done fast. If the Safari Park did the right thing then, they should either have sent him to Birmingham and learn from bulwalgi until he entered the appropiate age to participatr in breeding herds , or had a mentor bull at fresno to show him the ropes of courting and mating with breeding cows already present. I think that's why he's now at elephant oddsey with two other young bulls, to get his breeding instincts in gear for when he goes to breeding facilities again. He has a wild sire with a lot of genetic value, more than all of Mabu's captive born sons.