North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation

It seems that several forumsters air doubts about bull Vus'musi. Well, to be honest his life history has been met with some hurdles and obstacles on the way up the ladder. It has certainly not been easy on him and how he was shoved up state and back and disposed off once again.

Please all take note and bear in mind Vus'musi (b. 2004 in the wild with a wildborn sire) was the first bull calf by cow Ndulamitsi and had his brothers Lutsvando (b. 2010 - left SD-WAP in 2019 for Alabama) and Umzula-Zuli (b. 2012 still at the zoo ...) grew up alongside him within the SD-WAP herd.

TBH transferring a pubescent maturing bachelor bull to be with an experienced cow at Fresno - Chaffee Zoo was more a well-intended if desperate attempt to get him to breed at too young an age. For Goossens sake's, he was yet 10 and when he returned at 18 he was perhaps just about getting a clue as to what a bachelor maturing young bull should behave like.

For sure the cows Nolwazi (adult, wildborn 1994) and her daughter Amahle (maturing, and just settling in a primiparous cow ... between 2019-2022) at Fresno would not have considered Vus anything but a bachelor plaything annoyance at the corner of their herd instinct and most certainly the adult cow Nolwazi would not regard him as anything looking like a potential breeding partner. Sorry folks, it was more like a joke of a transfer in.

When he was returned to SD-WAP in 2022 he just presented a management challenge to the current matriarchal / cow elephant group and their offspring. Again, with his mother Ndula on site ..., not an ideal situation and certainly not natural ..., where bachelor bulls move away from their herd and get in with other bachelors in an adult bull's territory in the wilds and look in how the mature bulls get along with the cows. So, it was only inevitable that he would be retransferred out .., plus the planned move back of elder cow Shaba back to base and have her settle with the cow herd meant that sending out V. again was the best of both worlds (with San Diego Zoo now operating as a current (and future more ...) bachelor group for maturing bulls.

The timeframe 2022-2024 was rather light on any potential reinfroductions of V. to the younger cows in the herd .... and admittedly it seems to have taking him time to adjust to the younger cows Khosi, Phakamile and Qinisa as well. Despite what has been observed here ... it seems more like a good bit of wishful thinking and a questionmark if, yes when ... and perhaps that any of them ended up falling pregnant from his first moves into a breeding capacity.

Believe me, ... I really do hope he managed to get some of the younger cows pregnant ..., but right now San Diego WAP has been sitting on its laurels so long ... that it is imperative that the entire set of breedable cows at SD-WAP do demand that an experienced bang-on and proven bull does that the job on the double A.S.A.P.!!!!!
 
The timeframe 2022-2024 was rather light on any potential reinfroductions of V. to the younger cows in the herd .... and admittedly it seems to have taking him time to adjust to the younger cows Khosi, Phakamile and Qinisa as well. Despite what has been observed here ... it seems more like a good bit of wishful thinking and a questionmark if, yes when ... and perhaps that any of them ended up falling pregnant from his first moves into a breeding capacity.

Believe me, ... I really do hope he managed to get some of the younger cows pregnant ..., but right now San Diego WAP has been sitting on its laurels so long

Honestly I was in the same boat and almost 100% believed there were no pregnancies at the safari park. However, it was shared that there are multiple pregnancies in the population sired naturally by a first-time father. There is a singular bull other than Musi it could be (Tamani), and it feels far less likely that he would've gotten both Kansas City girls pregnant.
 
There is a singular bull other than Musi it could be (Tamani), and it feels far less likely that he would've gotten both Kansas City girls pregnant.
I think the reason why he may have not immediately started breeding the hogle pair is bc he was sitting with a bunch of geriatric cows from when he arrived from Birmingham at 10. I think Birmingham sent him to KC too early as they sent Callee and Ajani away yo breed when they were abt 18, which is close to maturity. I think his birth facility (Tampa) also sent him to bachelor herds at a bit too young at 6 and a half. In the wild, most bulls leave their natal groups around 10 to 12, so Calle Ajani and all of Mabu's bachelor sons left their family herds at 9-10.
 
Honestly I was in the same boat and almost 100% believed there were no pregnancies at the safari park. However, it was shared that there are multiple pregnancies in the population sired naturally by a first-time father. There is a singular bull other than Musi it could be (Tamani), and it feels far less likely that he would've gotten both Kansas City girls pregnant.

It could also be Indianapolis with Kedar successfully breeding Zahara and Ivory - but similarly yes my money is on SDZSP.
 
I think the reason why he may have not immediately started breeding the hogle pair is bc he was sitting with a bunch of geriatric cows from when he arrived from Birmingham at 10. I think Birmingham sent him to KC too early as they sent Callee and Ajani away yo breed when they were abt 18, which is close to maturity. I think his birth facility (Tampa) also sent him to bachelor herds at a bit too young at 6 and a half. In the wild, most bulls leave their natal groups around 10 to 12, so Calle Ajani and all of Mabu's bachelor sons left their family herds at 9-10.
Yes. That, and Christie has not bred in over 16 years. The likelihood of her ever having another calf is slim. Zuri could be pregnant, but that's not "multiple" cows.
 
Honestly I was in the same boat and almost 100% believed there were no pregnancies at the safari park. However, it was shared that there are multiple pregnancies in the population sired naturally by a first-time father. There is a singular bull other than Musi it could be (Tamani), and it feels far less likely that he would've gotten both Kansas City girls pregnant.
Where was it shared that there are multiple pregnancies sired by a first-time father? It appears I have missed this information.
 
Yes. That, and Christie has not bred in over 16 years. The likelihood of her ever having another calf is slim. Zuri could be pregnant, but that's not "multiple" cows.
Maybe tamani go to a bachelor herd again for retraining or a more active breeding herd then bring in a proven breeder for zuri. Callee wpuld be out as he and zuri share the same father. I'm not sure tamani really has his breeding instincts in him just yet
 
Maybe tamani go to a bachelor herd again for retraining or a more active breeding herd then bring in a proven breeder for zuri. Callee wpuld be out as he and zuri share the same father. I'm not sure tamani really has his breeding instincts in him just yet
There aren't really any strong options to bring in Tamani's place. Nor do I think being shipped to a bachelor facility would help him. Bachelor facilities can be vital in bull development, but if Tamani genuinely doesn't know how to breed females then him going to a bachelor facility isn't going to make those skills develop.
 
Tampa really shot themselves in the foot when sending Tamani, before witnessing breeding behavior and learning how to be a breeding bull from Sdudla, and even more show that they didn't breed Mbali and Matjeka again after having their calves, hell even Ellie could've had another calf during 2012-2013.
 
There aren't really any strong options to bring in Tamani's place. Nor do I think being shipped to a bachelor facility would help him. Bachelor facilities can be vital in bull development, but if Tamani genuinely doesn't know how to breed females then him going to a bachelor facility isn't going to make those skills develop.
Although he may have missed the crucial part of social development, it's possible this could still be improved upon if he was to be moved back to a facility where this is possible. It's essential for this to be 'modelled' to him. But it's difficult to do this at his age, as it's almost impossible to have two mature bulls in with cows at the same time!

To be honest, I don't think his age at moving out his maternal group would've been a big issue. At the end of the day, it really comes down to the herd - some herds elect to push bulls out much earlier, other's don't, and it can come down to a variety of factors; personalities, herd size ect.
 
Question

For Asian elephant AI, can they use semen from wild or semi captive bulls?

Would certainly be a hell of a genetic boost

Interesting question!

Studies note that semen has been collected from anaesthetised free-ranging bulls via electroejaculation (as opposed to manual collection from restrained bulls), so theoretically it would be possible to collect it.

However the requirements to import the semen into North America would be almost as stringent as importing the bull itself.
 
It was/is the hope for Kedar to be the breeding bull there. Theyve been trying to breed him to Zahara for years with no sucess, hence Jabari's AI birth. The odds of Kedar being a successful breeding bull when he hasn't had any experience with an older bull or even left his natal facility are very slim. They can't afford to keep waiting for some breeding skills to develop when Zahara is the sole breeding female and she has no daughters yet.
Simply put, Kedar is taking up the spot that desperately needs to go to a proven breeding bull. The fact that Indi is so reliant on AI is something that severely needs to be fixed. Theyve only produced one surviving female and a solid line of non-breeding males. A severe disappointment given the value of those animals' genes.

The reason why Indianapolis lost some of their elephants was because of an EEHV outbreak the zoo had back in 2019. It was not something the zoo had any control over regarding the calves that died.
 
Where was it shared that there are multiple pregnancies sired by a first-time father? It appears I have missed this information.

I found out last year from a really credible source (and by that I don’t mean anyone on zoochat), that a bull successfully impregnated multiple cows at a facility I cannot disclose publicly till the institution makes it public themselves. But the bull is a first time father. And that is not a rumor btw, this is confirmed.
 
The reason why Indianapolis lost some of their elephants was because of an EEHV outbreak the zoo had back in 2019. It was not something the zoo had any control over regarding the calves that died.
I am aware of that. Which is why I said "surviving".
I am also very aware that you do not like to discuss criticism of facilities on these forums, but as I have stated before, others are allowed to have those discussions.
 
Maybe tamani go to a bachelor herd again for retraining or a more active breeding herd then bring in a proven breeder for zuri. Callee wpuld be out as he and zuri share the same father. I'm not sure tamani really has his breeding instincts in him just yet
KC Zoo needs to re-arrange its cow herd. Really, I would honestly advocate to transfer the mid range cows (all build 1978) out to a facility to reduce the cow herd and only hang on to the eldest Lady (at 57+ ... she is way too old and she should be able to live out her twilight years here and the youngest of the non-reproductive cows Zoe (who arrived some time in 2007) and build a breeding group around proven breeder Christie and her daughter Zuri.

Tampa really shot themselves in the foot when sending Tamani, before witnessing breeding behavior and learning how to be a breeding bull from Sdudla, and even more show that they didn't breed Mbali and Matjeka again after having their calves, hell even Ellie could've had another calf during 2012-2013.
Absolutely! Tampa never did themselves any good favours and it is sad that so much time was lost on getting the cows Mbali and Matjeka bred. I am at odds why and how this got to pass at Lowry Park the way it did.

Honestly I was in the same boat and almost 100% believed there were no pregnancies at the safari park. However, it was shared that there are multiple pregnancies in the population sired naturally by a first-time father. There is a singular bull other than Musi it could be (Tamani), and it feels far less likely that he would've gotten both Kansas City girls pregnant.
I know about that "rumour" and untill the zoo concerned wises up and communicates the multiple pregnancies (should they be this year or next in 2026?) it remains pretty much an informed guessing game. I am loathe to do any predictions here ... and rather prefer zoos to make an announcement.
 
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know about that "rumour" and untill the zoo concerned wises up and communicates the multiple pregnancies (should they be this year or next in 2026?) it remains pretty much an informed guessing game. I am loathe to do any predictions here ... and rather prefer zoos to make an announcement.
Pregnancies can usually be determined two to three months after conception at earliest, so going back to when the comment was made and adding onto that timeframe; at latest, it would have to be early next year.
 
Pregnancies can usually be determined two to three months after conception at earliest, so going back to when the comment was made and adding onto that timeframe; at latest, it would have to be early next year.

the timeline I have, and that’s if the cows this bull impregnated are still pregnant and didn’t have any pregnancy complications, the calves for sure would be born by early 2026 or possibly even late 2025. And to clarify regarding the bull I’m talking about who’s a first time father, is an African Elephant and NOT an Asian elephant.
 
KC Zoo needs to re-arrange its cow herd. Really, I would honestly advocate to transfer the mid range cows (all build 1978) out to a facility to reduce the cow herd and only hang on to the eldest Lady (at 57+ ... she is way too old and she should be able to live out her twilight years here and the youngest of the non-reproductive cows Zoe (who arrived some time in 2007) and build a breeding group around proven breeder Christie and her daughter Zuri.
I think TES would be the best location for all 4 of the 1978 born cows to head to, then either Lady, or Zoe if she passes in the next few years, could act as a matriarch over Christie and Zuri's family. That way their hers finally replicates a real family herd like in the wild like many other elephant programs have done recently. Look at what Dallas did with their 4 golden girls and Sedgwick with their old cow Stephanie when the young Swaziland cows arrived in 2015. If Amy did not die at Fresno, she would have served as a perfect matriarch over nowalzi and amahle and her daughter miss bets if she hadn't passed neither, let alone a more abundance of cows for Mabu to mate since his arrival from Tucson
 
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