North American Asian Elephant Population 2025

I feel LA and even Bronx have been lacerated by ARAs for housing elephants much more than a lot of the other AZA elephant facilities. Oregon has gotten considerable activist flack over the years even with their hunky dory habitat, but that zoo held up very well. And Portland's program def has a brighter future than LA despite all the activist censure they received.
 
Last edited:
The Horse Boy said:
I feel LA and even Bronx have been lacerated by ARAs for housing elephants much more than a lot of the other AZA elephant facilities
Click to expand...

Pure unfortunate circumstance really. Billy's behavior made him an easy target to put pressure on the zoo, then especially when they lost two elephants back to back. Bronx has to keep Happy and Patty separate so the activists cry foul, seemingly completely ignoring that Happy cannot safely be mixed with other elephants. The activists are merely taking advantage of easily misconstrued circumstances, much like a lot of activism and politics.
 
Great Argus said:
Pure unfortunate circumstance really. Billy's behavior made him an easy target to put pressure on the zoo, then especially when they lost two elephants back to back.
Click to expand...
You mean the head bobbing and swaying? I know that ignites anti zoo sentiment esp in these damn activists. I said earlier in this thread that I worry that he might keep dispalying that demeanor in Tulsa.
 
The Horse Boy said:
You mean the head bobbing and swaying? I know that ignites anti zoo sentiment esp in these damn activists. I said earlier in this thread that I worry that he might keep dispalying that demeanor in Tulsa.
Click to expand...
He's bound to continue that behavior in Tulsa. ARAs will hound and harass any facility Billy is at, even if he stopped any stereotypic behavior. It's not a ""Sanctuary"", so therefore it's an evil and unethical facility in their eyes.
 
Julio C Castro said:
It could be perhaps sort of “go big or go bust” approach to exhibiting elephants. They’re very social animals and perhaps to keep family units as close as possible that they’d need to maintain enough space for their herds.
Click to expand...
It feels remarkably counter productive to push facilities to accomodate both bachelor and breeding groupings. There is just very little reason for it imo when there is an increasing need for more facilities (of both species) to accomodate individuals, bachelors and breeding cows alike. If a facility does have the room for both, great! But if it's a requirement creating a barrier for potential holders then that's a problem that shouldn't be there.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
He's bound to continue that behavior in Tulsa. ARAs will hound and harass any facility Billy is at, even if he stopped any stereotypic behavior. It's not a ""Sanctuary"", so therefore it's an evil and unethical facility in their eyes.
Click to expand...
I'm super positive the activists will start screaming their heads off at Tulsa night and day during Billy's stay there. Sometimes I wonder if his perpetual head bobbing he exhibits even in Elephants of Asia is a sign of some traumatic memory from his youth as if it's a type of motor tic.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
It feels remarkably counter productive to push facilities to accomodate both bachelor and breeding groupings. There is just very little reason for it imo when there is an increasing need for more facilities (of both species) to accomodate individuals, bachelors and breeding cows alike. If a facility does have the room for both, great! But if it's a requirement creating a barrier for potential holders then that's a problem that shouldn't be there.
Click to expand...
I totally understand but it appears to be the trend as one thing that many of the newer elephant exhibits share in common is the the sheer cost so that may be a bigger deterrent as well. According to the AZA Standards for Elephant Management and Care, it’s a requirement for new or renovated exhibits to be able to hold adult males. So I’d imagine if a facility were to have a bull on site with intention of breeding, they’d have to account for additional space for them. But at the end of the day, it’s whatever may be the goal for any facility whether they’re holding or breeding them while submitting plans for new/renovated elephant exhibits.
 
Julio C Castro said:
I totally understand but it appears to be the trend as one thing that many of the newer elephant exhibits share in common is the the sheer cost so that may be a bigger deterrent as well. According to the AZA Standards for Elephant Management and Care, it’s a requirement for new or renovated exhibits to be able to hold adult males. So I’d imagine if a facility were to have a bull on site with intention of breeding, they’d have to account for additional space for them. But at the end of the day, it’s whatever may be the goal for any facility whether they’re holding or breeding them while submitting plans for new/renovated elephant exhibits.
Click to expand...
Has that standard been in place since 2010 or 2011 or later than that? I know not every new or repurposed exhibit must hold a bull, but more have the ability to manage one in case they plane to bring in one- even if they start out by just housing older females for some time. Examples are Dallas, Milwaukee, Smithsonian and possibly Audubon and Cheyenne.
 
Last edited:
Any specific reason why brand new or repurposed elephant enclosures must be able to hpuse adult bulls? I've earlier pointed out that much of the older and smaller elephant enclosures were only cow proof.
 
The Horse Boy said:
Any specific reason why brand new or repurposed elephant enclosures must be able to hpuse adult bulls? I've earlier pointed out that much of the older and smaller elephant enclosures were only cow proof.
Click to expand...
The only holders needed in the long term will be bachelor and breeding facilities, so naturally they will need to house adult bulls to fulfill that purpose no matter what route they go down. Facilities that aren't bull-proof can't really contribute.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
The only holders needed in the long term will be bachelor and breeding facilities, so naturally they will need to house adult bulls to fulfill that purpose no matter what route they go down. Facilities that aren't bull-proof can't really contribute.
Click to expand...
I guess it's why the newer enclosures must be bull proof even if they start out by housing a geriatric cow herd for some time.
 
tigris115 said:
It's just a good habit to build all enclosures to be bull proof as you never know what elephants you'll get or how they'll get along.
Click to expand...
Better safe than sorry as the saying goes. I think the reason a lot of the older facilities were only cow proof was because it was historically believed that bulls are more agressive and dangerous to work with than the cows, zoos haven't attempted to breed elephants in the old days and just more reinforced barriers are just more expensive
 
Last edited:
What a crying shame that Los Angeles wasted a wild caught genetically valuable bull with post reproductive cows his entire time at the facility. Years ago they should have either sent him to a zoo with breeding aged Asian cows or bring in younger ripe females for him to mate. Now it's a much bigger waste that they trucked said bull to another facility with non reproductive adults followed by perhaps eventually moving other Asian fauna down to EOS given how much money and elephant themed dedication was placed in that exhibit. If they did decide to bring in new elephants after all, I would not be the least bit surprised any plans would be kept incognito until say a mother daughter pair and a breeding bull arrive just as what happened with the Tulsa trip.
 
Last edited:
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
He's bound to continue that behavior in Tulsa. ARAs will hound and harass any facility Billy is at, even if he stopped any stereotypic behavior. It's not a ""Sanctuary"", so therefore it's an evil and unethical facility in their eyes.
Click to expand...

And supposedly the lawsuit has already been filed with LA Zoo and Tulsa Zoo to relocate Billy and Tina... How ridiculous is that? LOL

It will take a very long time to die down.
 
Nile Hippo Expert said:
Punch (along with her African companion Mikki) has arrived at TES from Louisville Zoo.
The Louisville Zoo officially no longer has elephants – Here's where they went | whas11.com
So Topeka wins as the last zoo with African and Asian Elephants sharing space in the country!
Click to expand...
While I still feel a bit skeptical that elephants might return with a large brand new habitat at all, I feel if that does end up happening let's say in the next 5 ot so years, it'll be African. The only US zoos I can see returning to Asians after a considerable hiatus from a phase out would be San Antonio and even Bronx if they do phase out after Happy. As I have said earlier this year when i made a future for the population thread, it's a strong possibility that America will have more African facilities than Asians in the future. The African population seems to be a lot more stable with a brighter future ahead of them. Here's what they said abt the future of their current habitat and perhaps the future one in a couple news articles and their website.

Next Steps for the Habitat

'Punch and Mikki’s yard will be repurposed into a bigger habitat for the Zoo’s southern white rhinoceroses. The Zoo then hopes to welcome a new species — okapi, also known as forest giraffe — into the current rhino yard. In future master planning exercises, the Zoo will consider the potential of having elephants back at the Zoo.'
 
Last edited:
The Horse Boy said:
While I still feel a bit skeptical that elephants might return with a large brand new habitat at all, I feel if that does end up happening let's say in the next 5 ot so years, it'll be African. The only US zoos I can see returning to Asians after a considerable hiatus from a phase out would be San Antonio and even Bronx if they do phase out after Happy. As I have said earlier this year when i made a future for the population thread, it's a strong possibility that America will have more African facilities than Asians in the future. The African population seems to be a lot more stable with a brighter future ahead of them.
Click to expand...
Best quote I've heard about zoos and their future - never say never. Important thing is, if zoos are serious about building a sustainable population of elephants, calves on the ground and consolidation are the way to go. Zoos consolidated gorillas back in the 80s and now there's a sufficient self-sustaining population, and the same thing's happening with elephants.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top