European (Tea)Cup - League F - Wroclaw vs Tierpark Berlin

[TeaLovingDave]

This should be an interesting one, I think - a pair of zoological collections which have been moulded and shaped by the influence of the Cold War, which have developed massively in recent decades, and which are strong candidates for some of the best zoological collections in the former Communist Bloc. The category under discussion is TROPICAL FOREST, and as such should provide plenty of material for the debates and arguments to come

 

[twilighter]

Two massive collections against each other with a lot of assets in this category!
Wrocław has the Africarium card, nice Clouded Leopard exhibit, brand-new Bird house, Madagascar pavilion and very strong "Tropical" collection in general.

Tierpark Berlin renoveted ABH on the other side is dedicated mostly to South East Asia and quality of the main Tropical hall and Walktrough Tree-kangaroo/Pademelon exhibit, amoug others is very high. The new Indonesia mixed exhibit is Brilliant. Collection of Tropical rarities superb.

Wrocław is very strong, but Tierpark Berlin has answer to everything they have.

ABH beats Africarium in terrestial exhibits and species.

Both zoos have Okapis

Primate collection in Berlin's Monkey house overshadow both Madagascar and Monkey Pavilion at Wrocław. Aye-aye and Sifaka are enough to mention.

It is ironic that Bear Cuscuses that came from Wrocław are breeding at Tierpark. Giant flying squirrels are another nice touch that used to be Wrocław's draw card, but TP Berlin having the species now.

I can probably keep adding to the list, but most of us know those collections perfectly.

3-2 for Tierpark Berlin.

 

[amur leopard]

If anyone has time it would be nice to have a quick rundown of what there is at Wroclaw in the category? Not that familiar with the place right now, but the TP will probably take some beating in this category surely.

 

[Philipine eagle]

Having visited both collections last year this could be indeed a very close call.

Does @TeaLovingDave have a good eye on the collection in Wroclaw's reptile house in terms of this theme? The vast majority there will live in the tropics, but therefore not all in the (rain)forest.

The collection is very large in Wroclaw but, on the other hand, the terrariums in Tierpark's Alfred Brehmhaus are of very high quality, while the enclosures for tropical cats and bears, in themselves not that good (nor large), also seem to me slightly better than the ones in Wroclaw.

Tierpark's best lemur enclosure probably has more of a Mediterranean feel than tropical, but that's just my impression.

Wroclaw has a beautifully restored birdhouse with an unsurpassed collection, while tropical birds are not a stronghold for the Tierpark.

Large parts of Wroclaw's Afrykarium are not dedicated to tropical forest, while the ABH is exclusively dedicated to the forests of Southeast Asia.

For mammals: both have Balabac chevrotain, Sumatran tiger, Crested black macaque, NG Short-beaked echidna and okapi.
Tierpark has Aye-aye, Bawean deer, Asian golden cat, Bear cuscus, Guinean bearded Saki, Belanger's tree shrew, Venezuelan Red howler monkey, Sulawesi babirusa, Roloway guenon, White-bearded Palm Civet, Coquerel's sifaka, among others
Wroclaw has Black howler monkey, Diana and L'hoest guenon, Eastern Putty-nosed monkey, Eastern bongo, Goodman's mouse lemur, Golden-headed lion tamarin, Hammerhead bat, Indochinese clouded leopard, Sumatran Prevost's squirrel, Sri Lanka Rusty-spotted cat, Visayan spotted deer, Western pygmy hippo among others.
Quite close I think

At the moment, I would cautiously give 3-2 in Berlin's favour, as the enclosures there are newer and better, but I look forward with interest to others' analysis and I do not rule out the possibility that the (size of the) reptile collection in Wroclaw will ultimately be the decisive factor.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Does @TeaLovingDave have a good eye on the collection in Wroclaw's reptile house in terms of this theme? The vast majority there will live in the tropics, but therefore not all in the (rain)forest.

The list within the following thread should be fairly accurate, dating as it does from late September 2024:

On-show species within the Reptile House - 26/09/2024 [Zoo Wroclaw]

Although the reptile collection *is* sizeable, I think that it may be less of a factor than you suspect given that the exhibit quality is highly variable between "poor" and "pretty good" but seldom excels beyond that, and (as you note) many of the species within the reptile house are not relevant to a tropical forest category.

 

[remar]

Small correction @Philipine eagle, both have clouded leopards.

I'm quite surprised that until now, everyone has voted in favor of Berlin. For me it seems like a very close match, where both have their strengths and one could argue in either direction.

I didn't like the bird house at Wroclaw, and Berlin has the better primate house. Wroclaws manatee tank is great (but among with other parts of the house kind of ugly) Therefore i will go with 3:2 for now, but i'm still not 100% sure.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I'm quite surprised that until now, everyone has voted in favor of Berlin. For me it seems like a very close match, where both have their strengths and one could argue in either direction.

This is definitely one of those matches where a 3:2 vote in either direction feels too strong, and the overall voting structure falls apart a little - I imagine it is just a matter of chance that so far, no one has voted in the other direction or presented a solid argument or evidence for *either* direction.

Hopefully someone will provide a full breakdown of the two collections soon - failing this, I will try to get something or other written up tomorrow night

On another note, I'd be interested in hearing the arguments by @Haasje for a strong 4:1 vote in favour of Tierpark Berlin!

 

[TeaLovingDave]

The result was a little less close than it perhaps should have been - a relic, as noted, of the fact that the 5-point system does not allow for the level of subtlety that a match such as this one probably needed:

Wroclaw - 31/80 points - 38.750%
Tierpark Berlin - 49/80 points - 61.250%

Just remember, every little vote counts, even if the result already seems obvious - the single 4:1 vote for Tierpark Berlin had an overly-large impact purely due to the low number of participants!