North American Asian Elephant Population 2025

E Maximus said:
Phoebe would not be going anywhere. Her care team would send Sunny and Rudy before her. She’s been there far too long and she’s much preferred. Rudy is also a “trouble” child so to speak so that would be an easy off load. Also, white oak does not own Sunny and Rudy so they would probably be “sold” or “loaned” to another zoo.
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Would she be considered a trouble child because she was a circus elephant that was not well socialized or because she would not allow the bull to breed her?

Both Rudy and Sunny were circus elephants so think about how their lives were structured. Chains for many hours and kept in a dysfunctional group under direct contact. They may develop an attitude after that.
 
E Maximus said:
Phoebe would not be going anywhere. Her care team would send Sunny and Rudy before her. She’s been there far too long and she’s much preferred. Rudy is also a “trouble” child so to speak so that would be an easy off load. Also, white oak does not own Sunny and Rudy so they would probably be “sold” or “loaned” to another zoo.
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And to be fair, by that point in time, Phoebe will likely be a much older, post reproductive female. So moving her at that point would probably be unlikely. Moving Rudy/Sunny + daughters of Sunny would be more realistic.

I wonder whether Columbus would ever consider splitting the matriarchal herd and moving the other half to The Wilds; which has the space and a beautiful landscape for an elephant complex.
 
Jambo said:
And to be fair, by that point in time, Phoebe will likely be a much older, post reproductive female. So moving her at that point would probably be unlikely. Moving Rudy/Sunny + daughters of Sunny would be more realistic.

I wonder whether Columbus would ever consider splitting the matriarchal herd and moving the other half to The Wilds; which has the space and a beautiful landscape for an elephant complex.
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The issue is that The Wilds is not, in it's current state, really suited to have an animal like elephants in their complex. Unlike SDZP or even the upcoming WildCare Park, The Wilds is entirely jeep tours and has only a handful of exhibits you can view via walking, but you need to be dropped off by the bus to access them. Elephants, for obvious reasons, aren't a realistic choice to put in that format.
I think theyre trending in a slightly new direction with a new giraffe barn for winter viewing, but I struggle to see where and how they'd incorporate a massive complex that would need to be viewed via some kind of walking path in the existing design.
I'm not opposed to it in the least though and it would allow for a potential White Oak or ALS sized herd all while potentially still having a group at the main zoo. I think it would require a bit of a revamp of several core elements of the facility before it would be a genuine option though.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
The issue is that The Wilds is not, in it's current state, really suited to have an animal like elephants in their complex. Unlike SDZP or even the upcoming WildCare Park, The Wilds is entirely jeep tours and has only a handful of exhibits you can view via walking, but you need to be dropped off by the bus to access them. Elephants, for obvious reasons, aren't a realistic choice to put in that format.
I think theyre trending in a slightly new direction with a new giraffe barn for winter viewing, but I struggle to see where and how they'd incorporate a massive complex that would need to be viewed via some kind of walking path in the existing design.
I'm not opposed to it in the least though and it would allow for a potential White Oak or ALS sized herd all while potentially still having a group at the main zoo. I think it would require a bit of a revamp of several core elements of the facility before it would be a genuine option though.
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Monarto Safari Park in Australia recently opened an elephant complex which is primarily viewable by a bus route; with only a single viewing area dedicated to those on foot. So it's certainly do-able - just because most of the park is 'drive through' so to speak, doesn't mean the elephants have too be as well.

I also like the idea of the jeep dropping people off at a specific viewing area for the elephants. It could have an elephant barn/pool located there which would help increase the chances of elephant visibility there.
 
Jambo said:
Monarto Safari Park in Australia recently opened an elephant complex which is primarily viewable by a bus route; with only a single viewing area dedicated to those on foot. So it's certainly do-able - just because most of the park is 'drive through' so to speak, doesn't mean the elephants have too be as well.

I also like the idea of the jeep dropping people off at a specific viewing area for the elephants. It could have an elephant barn/pool located there which would help increase the chances of elephant visibility there.
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I think it would be a poor choice to place a big ticket animal like elephants as an additional bus stop on the open air tours for popularity reasons. One of The Wilds' biggest criticisms is the fact that visitors don't have freedom to view animals on their own time, and for a big ticket animal like elephants that opinion would only double (ESPECIALLY if calves are involved). Bronx has had this criticism with their monorail as well, it's just not the best way to maximize on the popularity potential elephants have in the US.
 
Jambo said:
If Saint Louis still hold a herd, I don't see why this should be an issue - especially if you can already see them in a usual zoo setting there.

It's probably not fair to compare this situation to the Bronx, as their monorail is consistently on the move. The Wild's bus certainly stops a fair bit to view the animals.

On the freedom to view the animals, placing the Elephant Stop at the start/finish of the tour, could easily fix that problem. Or the Elephants could be utilised as the main 'halfway' point of the tour whereby visitors would be allowed to get off the bus and remain off for however long they wished; with the ability to jump back on a bus to see the rest of the zoo as they please. Just a few thoughts - there's a lot of ways that it could be worked around if the only thing stopping the elephants is the ability to view them 'properly' so to speak.
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This discussion should maybe move to the speculation thread.
 
Elephant Enthusiast said:
Suzy, the oldest Asian elephant in North America and the matriarch of the Endangered Ark Foundation's herd, passed away at the age of 74 on June 10, 2025.

Endangered Ark Foundation | Facebook
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That's very saddening to hear. What makes me even more sad is that the Endangered ARK Foundation is part of circus organization. Me and I think a lot of us on here would much prefer to see wild animals, esp elephants, in accredited zoos than circuses. I hate how circuses chain elephants feet a lot the times when they aren't performing or moving. No aza zoo would accept that approach these days.
 
The Horse Boy said:
That's very saddening to hear. What makes me even more sad is that the Endangered ARK Foundation is part of circus organization. Me and I think a lot of us on here would much prefer to see wild animals, esp elephants, in accredited zoos than circuses. I hate how circuses chain elephants feet a lot the times when they aren't performing or moving. No aza zoo would accept that approach these days.
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There are many people on the flip side of the coin who would argue that the trade off of being tethered at times is a lot of exercise and mental stimulation when they're not tethered compared to many, many elephants kept in AZA facilities.

All elephants in accredited zoos these days are maintained PC - this means zero foray from their enclosure, more limited interaction with keepers, and less interaction with the public. Sure, there's less safety risk, don't have regular tethering, and less potential for handler abuse. They've got each other (hopefully), there are beautiful new facilities being built, and many great professionals taking care of them. But is it as a matter of fact better or worse? It means no walks around grounds, no being taken to new places off site, no very very hands on attention from keepers. I'm not sure youre qualified at all to be making that judgment. I'm not pro or anti FC or circus, nor do I work with elephants professionally - but I know there's more to it and that perhaps I should try to see the whole picture before getting black and white on the matter.
 
HawkAlot said:
There are many people on the flip side of the coin who would argue that the trade off of being tethered at times is a lot of exercise and mental stimulation when they're not tethered compared to many, many elephants kept in AZA facilities.

All elephants in accredited zoos these days are maintained PC - this means zero foray from their enclosure, more limited interaction with keepers, and less interaction with the public. Sure, there's less safety risk, don't have regular tethering, and less potential for handler abuse. They've got each other (hopefully), there are beautiful new facilities being built, and many great professionals taking care of them. But is it as a matter of fact better or worse? It means no walks around grounds, no being taken to new places off site, no very very hands on attention from keepers. I'm not sure youre qualified at all to be making that judgment. I'm not pro or anti FC or circus, nor do I work with elephants professionally - but I know there's more to it and that perhaps I should try to see the whole picture before getting black and white on the matter.
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Sorry but ..., animal welfare and wellbeing of any elephant group in captivity are not best served by treating elephants like pet animals and in full contact with their own mahout for companionship. It is simply unnatural ... and this is where sanctuaries fail to see sense nor do the decent right thing.


Fine and I am happy with that ..., if and when sanctuaries like Endangered Ark may have a role to play with the old generation of elephants maintained in zoos and other ex situ facilities ..., but really that steps from a different era and that is coming to end end before not too long. And honestly, it is a philosophy misconstrued by an emotion led anthropomorphised view by Homo "sapiens" that serves the individual interest of a lone elephant perhaps, but it aint elephant natural social structure nor behaviour nor ecology to treat any human attendent as part of their herd and it just fails to see the natural order of things and the wider realities existing within Nature, both untouched range and those hopelessly invaded by our species in the Wilds. Wild Nature simply does no longer exist...., we impact the entire One Planet Earth - at least in the Western world - 4.8, 3.7 or more times Earth's limits.

Yes and absolutely under tip top conditions most elephants do have their place in the wilds and inside range... at the same time the reality is that (hu-)mankind is not exactly the elephant species on the whole as its best friend and most national parks and protected areas are constricted by ever growing human populations and the limits they put on free movement and migration of wild elephants.

Zoos and ex situ conservation breeding facilities provide a safe haven for the species, ensure in accredited facilities adequate and expert husbandry and animal management and housing facilities, signal a conservation message and inspire both public opinion and create awareness of what we need to change in our Natural World if endangered species and ourselves do have a chance to survive well into the future.... FWIIW, sanctuaries for the best part do not work in the interest nor provide any substantial support for in situ conservation of wild elephants.

Well, if you do wish for elephants in 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, 1000 and beyond Now ... this is what should happen on a grand scale. Half Earth as E.O. Wilson would have it. Reduce Footprint and Increase Handshake.

Now you may not agree with me ..., which is absolutely fine, just this is the wider perspective that I bring to the table.

Have a Nice Day.
 
Zina spent most of her life with the Ringling circus and their herd had a cronic TB problem for decades. Originally the disease was transmitted from circus workers to one or more elephant, and then the elephants infected their herd mates. And probably also their keepers, which may have passed the disease to other elephants…
 
Yassa said:
Zina spent most of her life with the Ringling circus and their herd had a cronic TB problem for decades. Originally the disease was transmitted from circus workers to one or more elephant, and then the elephants infected their herd mates. And probably also their keepers, which may have passed the disease to other elephants…
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Ah yes, that certainly explains it.

Poor Zina, at least she's in a much better place now.
 
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