European (Tea)Cup - League E - Chester vs Burgers

[TeaLovingDave]

Having just come out of a hard-fought match, Burgers - perhaps one of the favourites to progress beyond this stage - now faces the distinct possibility of an even tougher fight, as it comes face-to-face against Chester in the category of AFRICA.

It perhaps goes without saying that I hope that the discussion and debate continues to be as lively and active as it was in the last match!

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Given the massive quantity, scope and consistently-high quality of what Chester has to offer in this category, compared to the relatively limited (but generally high standard) offering by Burgers, I think a 3-2 vote for the former seems a fair place to start pending discussion.

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

Surprisingly, "Africa" doesn't feel like Chester's strongest suite, although in all fairness, their new "Africa" section was still under development when I last went, so what do I know?

Now, this is tight, as both collections have a very solid collection of big-name African animals and the enclosures they have are also really good, so there's little to separate them there. I just genuinely think Chester stands out a little more. Maybe it's just because it feels like it covers all of Africa rather than primarily savannah focused (their rainforest collection is pretty solid, for example) and there's a little more variety overall, but it could just be me. Certainly their collection of Madagascan creatures is really impressive, and that counts here.

 

[EliasNys]

Burger's work with chimpanzees should also be mentioned, they were the first to experiment with a large group of chimpanzees. Without them chimpanzees would be way worse off! There are also some African species in the Bush such as aardvark. And then of course the savannah and lion and cheetah enclosures. They have a ring-tailed lemur island, African penguin and a Meerkat enclosure too.

Judging from the zoo map, Chester has way more to offer, especially with the new heart of Africa area. So I think a 4-1 is in order here.
But I don't know Chester that well (blame brexit ) so I don't know how the enclosures actually look.

 

[Philipine eagle]

The Western lowland gorilla and Golden-bellied mangabey mixed enclosure in Burger's is also worth mentioning.

The savanna and great apes exhibits are excellent at Burgers' but the Bush has not a lot to offer: Red crested turaco, Snowy-crowned robin-chat; Rodriguez bat, Speckled mousebird, Aardvark, Red fody and a frog Phlytimantis maculatus, that's about it.

I've never been to Chester, so how is the quality of the exhibits there?

 

[Lafone]

If Chester had not just relaunched the Africa area then despite the other Chester features and collection I would have been more swayed to Burger's Bush and Savannah exhibits. The new Africa area is really well done however and really brings balance to the offer in this space and @Maguari shared some excellent images after the opening (all these photos are credit @Maguari)

the outdoor areas are really well laid out and the new hidden Savannah has some interesting animals too

and thoughtfully created viewing

as well as areas where you can get a bit closer such as this area for the birds

there are some great new free flight aviaries too for Flamingoes, Cranes and smaller birds such as the Lilac Brested Roller group. Chester has some really high quality exhibitry and well laid out enclosures most of which have interesting viewing. I agree with @CrashMegaraptor that the representation of lots of areas across Africa is a great strength in this section of the competition.

Having visited the new Chester area it is impressive with a couple of minor exceptions (noisy area next to the Bat Eared foxes but they have a really large outside area) and a real investment in future success.

Chester also has a good enclosure for the Chimps with a busy breeding group and the general collection is good across this category. The excellent breeding record for the Rolloways and other primates who are well housed with good viewing is also something to note.

Burgers obviously has quality exhibits it does really well so it feels more 3/2 in favour of Chester for me than 4/1 so that's how I voted for now.

 

[pipaluk]

Chester is very lucky it is against Burgers in this category! Had it been against Berlin it would have struggled and Beauval it would have lost against heavily. A relatively comfortable 3-2 for me in Chester's favour

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Had it been against....Beauval it would have lost against heavily.

If you think that Chester is inferior to Beauval to that degree, I reckon you are either underselling just how much Chester has to offer in this category in terms of quality *and* quantity, overselling the quality and quantity at Beauval, or both But that just gives me an excuse to highlight a variety of points no one has mentioned yet for the purposes of *this* match!

GRASSLANDS / HEART OF AFRICA

The photographs cited by @Lafone upthread (and originally posted by @Maguari) primarily depict the various aspects which were newly-constructed or heavily revamped for the new exhibit complex; however, thus far no one has really mentioned the three major pre-existing segments of this area of the zoo which have been retained more-or-less intact, and which have long been some of the best exhibits within the zoo as a whole - let alone within the specific purview of this category.

Tsavo Aviary

Perhaps one of the best walkthrough aviary exhibits in the UK, if not Europe, and certainly one of my favourite zoo exhibits full stop:

Per a comment on the second photograph above, the exhibit currently contains the following species:

• Bruce's Green Pigeon
• Purple Glossy Starling
• Lilac-breasted Roller
• Blacksmith Plover
• Hamerkop
• Maccoa Duck
• Red-winged Starling
• Hottentot Teal
• Village Weaver

African Wild Dog exhibit

A series of linked enclosures for African Wild Dog, which is one of the largest - if not *the* largest - and best exhibits for the species I have seen anywhere in Europe at around 4,500 m²:

Tsavo Rhino House and Black Rhinoceros paddocks

As with the above two exhibits, the massive complex of paddocks for Eastern Black Rhinoceros at Chester has been a particular highlight of the zoo for many years prior to the recent redevelopment of that area of the zoo - and they have been retained more or less "as is" within the Grasslands complex, with the only real change being a reduction in public footpaths between the paddocks. The onshow paddocks cover a total of around 19,000 m², with a further 11,000 m² of offshow breeding paddocks.

MADAGASCAR

The Madagascar complex at Chester covers around 6,000 m², and comprises the following:

• an exhibit for a breeding group of Coquerel's Sifaka, with both indoor and outdoor viewing
• an exhibit for a breeding group of Fossa, with both indoor and outdoor viewing
• a large walkthrough lemur exhibit, containing (IIRC) Ring-tailed Lemur, Red Ruffed Lemur and Crowned Lemur.

Sifaka

Fossa

Lemur Walkthrough

Elsewhere in the zoo, there are exhibits for several other Malagasy species, with some of the highlights including:

Ploughshare Tortoise

Oustalet's Chameleon and Radiated Tortoise

Aye-Aye

Given the nocturnal nature of this species and thus the exhibit, the quality of available photographs is poor - however, this is probably the best extant exhibit for the species I have seen in Europe (with the only onshow exhibits I have not seen being those at Jersey).

Mixed exhibit for Malagasy reptiles

OTHER

Particular highlight exhibits within this category, to name but a few, include the Monkey House and associated outdoor island exhibits (which contains Roloway Monkey and Mandrill among other non-category taxa), the Okapi house and paddocks, the wide variety of amphibian exhibits within Tropical Realm, and the large outdoor exhibit for Chimpanzee - I have hit the photo limit for this post, so I shall post further images depicting some of these tomorrow unless someone else beats me to it!

In the meantime, having run through all of the above and reminding myself just how good Chester is within this category, I feel reasonably comfortable in upgrading my vote to 4-1 overall

 

[TeaLovingDave]

On another note, please post your thoughts and arguments pertaining to your 5:0 vote @VictoriaCrownedOutlaw , lest your vote be discounted per the established rules

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

Now watch as Chester gets "Temperate Forest" as its final match-up, a category it pretty much has... what, a couple of owls and that's it? XD

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Now watch as Chester gets "Temperate Forest" as its final match-up, a category it pretty much has... what, a couple of owls and that's it? XD

There's also the offshow Scottish Wildcats held as part of the breeding programme for the taxon, but as you note things are pretty patchy for Chester in that regard

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

There's also the offshow Scottish Wildcats held as part of the breeding programme for the taxon, but as you note things are pretty patchy for Chester in that regard

Especially considering all the other categories it could get in this round. If my calculations are correct, the remaining categories for League E are Birds (which Chester has a really good collection of, including some rescued and very rare ones), Carnivores (which it has a solid showing), Tropical Forests (a category it's already won) and Islands (I mean, come on, this is Chester we're talking about!). Giving it Temperate Forest really would be a slap to the face. XD

 

[Kalaw]

I struggle to vote for Burgers' here for the same reason as in the Paris thread: the general feeling I had of the Safari being underwhelming, with the blatantly European woodland and looming pylon in the background killing any immersion, despite it being evidently excellent for the animals. I haven't seen Chester's new 'Heart of Africa' in person yet, but from the photos the whole complex looks far more appealing to me. That said, the actual savannah itself is much smaller, and I've always been of the opinion that any savannah exhibit feels a little incomplete without rhinos.

Beyond that, I adored the ape enclosures at Burgers' and their historic impact is really profound. Not only the enclosure itself (as @EliasNys says, the first to experiment with a genuine group of chimpanzees featuring multiple mature males, as well as one of the key innovators in the idea of large grass-covered islands), but also the important research performed by various notable primatologists at the zoo. Certainly, both the chimpanzee and gorilla enclosures at Burgers' are far superior to the (by no means mediocre) chimpanzee enclosure at Chester. But overall, I just don't think Burgers' has enough of serious quality to surpass Chester, which may be one of Europe's very finest for Madagascan fauna, is one of the most important zoos globally in the captive breeding of Black Rhinos, and has a far broader Madagascan collection.

While this is a clear win for Chester, I definitely won't go any further than 3-2. The ape enclosures, the free-fliers in the Bush, and the objective excellence of the Safari area absolutely earn two points at least.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

That said, the actual savannah itself is much smaller, and I've always been of the opinion that any savannah exhibit feels a little incomplete without rhinos.

I'd argue that shoehorning the Black Rhinoceros onto the savannah exhibit when they already have the aforementioned world-class exhibit complex devoted to them would have been a very bad move and wouldn't have improved Grasslands in the slightest

the free-fliers in the Bush,

I think the vast majority of those are Asian or South American, mind you!

On another note, please post your thoughts and arguments pertaining to your 5:0 vote @VictoriaCrownedOutlaw , lest your vote be discounted per the established rules

Still time for @VictoriaCrownedOutlaw to either explain their 5:0 vote in order to allow it to be counted, or indeed to downgrade it in order to avoid mandatory explanation!

 

[Kalaw]

I'd argue that shoehorning the Black Rhinoceros onto the savannah exhibit when they already have the aforementioned world-class exhibit complex devoted to them would have been a very bad move and wouldn't have improved Grasslands in the slightest

I agree, but that doesn’t change the fact that rhinos on a savannah really add to the spectacle, especially a genuine crash of seven or more à la Burgers’. And who’s to say that they couldn’t have gotten white rhinos? Having three species of rhino would be a serious bragging point and I don’t see any reason for Chester not to do it.

I think the vast majority of those are Asian or South American, mind you!

I’m aware that African birds are a minority of the Bush, or else it may well be enough to swing some votes, myself perhaps included, in Burgers’ favour. It’s worth mentioning their presence all the same as the exhibit truly is excellent.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Having three species of rhino would be a serious bragging point and I don’t see any reason for Chester not to do it.

I imagine space will have been the main constraining factor, given the fact that the vast majority of Grasslands was built on areas of the zoo which were already occupied by exhibits - the only exception being the visitor lodges and the associated giraffe exhibit. Of course, they could have forsaken the lodges entirely
Out of curiosity, I just checked on ZTL and it seems the only European collections with three species of rhinoceros are Port Lympne and Zoo du Bassin d'Arcachon!

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

Whipsnade used to have three species back in the day, although the blacks have long since gone.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

A pretty foregone conclusion from early on - and it should be noted that the final result does *not* include the unsubstantiated 5-0 vote per the established rules.

Chester - 63/100 points - 63.000%
Burgers - 37/100 points - 37.000%

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