Zoochat (Tea)Cup 2025

A pair of matches which were a lot quieter than I expected, but which nonetheless helped to contribute to the overall course of the Zoochat Cup:

League E - Chester vs Beauval - ISLANDS

Chester - 65/100 points - 65.000%
Beauval - 35/100 points - 35.000%

League F - Antwerp and Planckendael vs Stuttgart - GRASSLAND AND DESERTS

Antwerp and Planckendael - 52/95 points - 54.737%
Stuttgart - 43/95 points - 45.263%

The next two matches have kicked off, and I hope they may be a little more lively:

European (Tea)Cup - League E - Vienna vs Burgers

European (Tea)Cup - League F - Prague vs Stuttgart

We shall reconvene anon :)
 
So, we're now 2/3rds of the way through Leagues E and F, and here are the scores so far, at least from what I can tell...

LEAGUE E
Chester - 7/8
Zoo Berlin - 5/8 with 1 round remaining
Burgers - 5/8 with 1 round remaining
Vienna - 4/8 with 2 rounds remaining
Beauval - 4/8 with 1 round remaining
Paris - 3/8 with 1 round remaining

LEAGUE F
Tierpark Berlin - 7/8 with 1 round remaining
Prague - 6/8 with 2 rounds remaining
Stuttgart - 5/8 with 1 round remaining
Wroclaw - 5/8
Antwerp & Planckendael - 4/8 with 1 round remaining
Leipzig - 3/8 with 1 round remaining

If everything is correct (it probably isn't), this tells me Chester, T-Berlin and Prague are guaranteed a spot in the next round, whilst Paris and Leipzig are almost definitely heading home at this point.
 
CrashMegaraptor said:
So, we're now 2/3rds of the way through Leagues E and F, and here are the scores so far, at least from what I can tell...

LEAGUE E
Chester - 7/8
Zoo Berlin - 5/8 with 1 round remaining
Burgers - 5/8 with 1 round remaining
Vienna - 4/8 with 2 rounds remaining
Beauval - 4/8 with 1 round remaining
Paris - 3/8 with 1 round remaining

LEAGUE F
Tierpark Berlin - 7/8 with 1 round remaining
Prague - 6/8 with 2 rounds remaining
Stuttgart - 5/8 with 1 round remaining
Wroclaw - 5/8
Antwerp & Planckendael - 4/8 with 1 round remaining
Leipzig - 3/8 with 1 round remaining

If everything is correct (it probably isn't), this tells me Chester, T-Berlin and Prague are guaranteed a spot in the next round, whilst Paris and Leipzig are almost definitely heading home at this point.
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So what would the position have been before the rules on matches carried forward from round 1 were suddenly changed @CrashMegaraptor ? It was argued the change of rules would make it more interesting. As far as I can see all it did was massively benefit Chester , Berlin and Burgers and kill Beauval even before it had to play Chester on a category nobody could beat them on!! 'lucky' Beauval has been screwed on more than one count, I must be a conspiracy theorist, but I could add more!
 
pipaluk said:
So what would the position have been before the rules on matches carried forward from round 1 were suddenly changed @CrashMegaraptor ?
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I've been keeping track of both sets of results - the other version would be as follows (with rankings determined by match wins first and then overall percentage:

LEAGUE E

Chester - 4/5
Zoo Berlin - 2/5 (one round remaining)
Burgers - 2/5 (one round remaining)
Beauval - 2/5 (one round remaining)
Vienna 1/5 (two rounds remaining)
Paris - 1/5 (one round remaining)

LEAGUE F

Tierpark Berlin - 4/5 (one round remaining)
Prague - 3/5 (2 rounds remaining)
Wroclaw - 2/5
Stuttgart - 2/5 (one round remaining)
Antwerp & Planckendael - 1/5 (one round remaining)
Leipzig - 0/5 (one round remaining)

....so the results aren't too dissimilar, but as I hoped looking at the ongoing percentages the change has kept more collections in the running overall, as the only two collections with no chance of progression are currently Leipzig and Paris - whilst under the initially-planned rules the Belgian pair would definitely be out too, and chances for Vienna and Stuttgart would be very slender indeed.

pipaluk said:
s and kill Beauval even before it had to play Chester on a category nobody could beat them on!! 'lucky' Beauval has been screwed on more than one count, I must be a conspiracy theorist, but I could add more!
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Putting aside the fact that Beauval *still* has a chance to progress now, and that your belief that these chances had been "killed" even before the last match is entirely false.....

Given the fact that (like almost everyone else barring @Kalaw ) you didn't bother arguing the case for Beauval in their last match, and (unlike all those silent voters) you didn't even vote one way or another, I think that you have very little right whatsoever to complain about the result of that match. As Kalaw proved (and I acknowledged within the thread itself) it was certainly possible for someone to provide a valid and interesting defence for Beauval deserving the win, and you had 72 hours to do so.

Moreover, thinly-veiled insinuations about the credibility of the Cup or my sense of scruples do you zero credit whatsoever. To put it very bluntly, if I wanted to ensure that any given collection had zero chance in the Cup, I wouldn't have included them in the first place.
 
Indeed. Let us assume for brevity's sake that Burgers holds on to its lead and beats Vienna in its current category. The final two match-ups for Group E are Vienna vs Beauval and Paris vs Z-Berlin. If Beauval beats Vienna and Berlin loses to Paris, then both are at five wins a piece, and then it comes down to percentages... or, possibly, countback from their Round 1 match-up, which would put Beauval through.

EDIT: I should also point out that the final two categories for League E are "Temperate Forests" and "Tropical Forests". Whilst I have limited knowledge of Beauval, what I do know is that both of these categories are very favourable for it.
 
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The next batch of results, with one match being significantly more active (and closer) than the other:

League E - Paris Zoo & Menagerie vs Zoo Berlin - TROPICAL FOREST

Paris - 31/70 points - 44.286%
Zoo Berlin - 39/70 points - 55.714%

League F - Prague vs Tierpark Berlin - AFRICA

Prague - 63/120 points - 52.500%
Tierpark Berlin - 57/120 points - 47.500%

And the next two matches - the last before we progress to the next round:

European (Tea)Cup - League E - Vienna vs Beauval

European (Tea)Cup - League F - Antwerp and Planckendael vs Leipzig

Enjoy :)
 
The last two matches from this round:

League E - Vienna vs Beauval - TEMPERATE FOREST AND WOODLAND

Vienna - 46/100 points - 46.000%
Beauval - 54/100 points - 54.000%

League F - Antwerp and Planckendael vs Leipzig - WATER AND WETLANDS

Antwerp and Planckendael - 55/90 points - 61.111%
Leipzig - 35/90 points - 38.889%

A few summary posts to follow, before the next round of matches (and an explanation of the general format of the matches to come) kicks off tomorrow :)
 
All three competitors to progress from League E were determined by win count, and no "percentage score" tiebreaks ended up required there; conversely in League F a combination of methods was required to determine progression, as a total of three competitors (Wroclaw, Antwerp and Planckendael, and Stuttgart) shared third place in win count, with percentage score required to determine the victor.

The collections progressing to the finals round are marked in bold:

  1. Prague 8/8
  2. Tierpark Berlin 7/8
  3. Chester 7/8
  4. Zoo Berlin 6/8
  5. Burgers 6/8
  6. Wroclaw 5/8
  7. Antwerp & Planckendael 5/8
  8. Stuttgart 5/8
  9. Beauval 5/8
  10. Vienna 4/8
  11. Paris 3/8
  12. Leipzig 3/8

When compared to the results of the first round, a number of interesting points can be observed:

  • Prague, Tierpark Berlin, Zoo Berlin, Burgers, Stuttgart and Paris have remained static in their overall placement.
  • Chester and Beauval have advanced three places.
  • Wroclaw and Vienna have dropped three places.
  • Antwerp/Planckendael has gained two places.
  • Leipzig has dropped two places.
It may be of some interest that the rankings would have been somewhat different had they been determined purely by percentage:

  1. Prague 69.3576%
  2. Tierpark Berlin 66.7475%
  3. Chester 57.9868%
  4. Wroclaw 56.8168%
  5. Zoo Berlin 56.6702%
  6. Burgers 54.4013%
  7. Antwerp & Planckendael 52.5870%
  8. Vienna 51.2743%
  9. Stuttgart 51.1993%
  10. Paris 50.0923%
  11. Beauval 49.5673%
  12. Leipzig 43.8358%
Interestingly, unlike the first round (where percentage scores alone would have led to a different selection of collections progressing) it can be seen here that although exact rankings differ slightly, the six collections progressing to the finals round would have been the same no matter which criteria was used.
 
Darn, and I thought for a moment the Belgian duo may have just sneaked out the comeback.

Anyway, based on previous match-ups, as follows....

Prague vs Wroclaw - Primates
Wroclaw vs T-Berlin - Tropical Forest
Prague vs T-Berlin - Africa
Z-Berlin vs Burgers - Ectotherms
Chester vs Z-Berlin - Asia
Chester vs Burgers - Africa again

So I guess that means those five categories won't be appearing in the next round, at least following the logic of Leagues E and F.
 
CrashMegaraptor said:
Darn, and I thought for a moment the Belgian duo may have just sneaked out the comeback.
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I firmly believe that they *could* have progressed to the next round over Wroclaw had they not suffered from a relatively low turnout and lack of participation across most of their matches - some of their wins could have been a lot stronger than they actually were, I think.

CrashMegaraptor said:
So I guess that means those five categories won't be appearing in the next round, at least following the logic of Leagues E and F.
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They won't be appearing in the finals league, in any case ;)

---

As I know the question is liable to be asked, the following is how progression to the finals round would have gone had I retained the originally-planned concept of only carrying forward those matches from the first round which involved progressing collections. Again, those collections which would have progressed are marked in bold:

  1. Prague 5/5
  2. Tierpark Berlin 4/5
  3. Chester 4/5
  4. Zoo Berlin 3/5
  5. Burgers 3/5
  6. Beauval 3/5
  7. Wroclaw 2/5
  8. Stuttgart 2/5
  9. Antwerp & Planckendael 2/5
  10. Paris 1/5
  11. Vienna 1/5
  12. Leipzig 0/5

And just for fun, the percentage-only rankings:

  1. Tierpark Berlin 67.7354%
  2. Prague 63.7674%
  3. Chester 53.8978%
  4. Zoo Berlin 52.6018%
  5. Wroclaw 50.9370%
  6. Burgers 50.4850%
  7. Paris 49.6190%
  8. Beauval 46.7568%
  9. Vienna 46.6396%
  10. Stuttgart 45.0866%
  11. Antwerp & Planckendael 42.8708%
  12. Leipzig 29.6028%

Interestingly, it is apparent from the above figures that had the original concept been retained not all that much would have changed - the same six collections would have progressed to the finals round, although progression would have been determined by a blend of match wins and percentage score for both leagues rather than merely one.

However, comparing these figures to the "official" figures does make it clear that the alteration did bring the overall scores and percentages a lot closer together as I hoped - there would never have been any realistic prospect of Stuttgart or the Belgian duo successfully overtaking Wroclaw in this version of events, whilst (as I noted above to Crash) it was a real possibility during the round which transpired.
 
So, here are the six competitors which have progressed through to the finals league:

HEDIGER LEAGUE (FINALS)

Prague
Tierpark Berlin
Chester
Zoo Berlin
Burgers
Wroclaw

.......and *here* are the six competitors which will face off against each other in the prestige league:

HAGENBECK LEAGUE (PRESTIGE)

Antwerp & Planckendael
Stuttgart
Beauval
Vienna
Paris
Leipzig

Surprise! :D:p

It's quite simple really:

  • Each competitor will take part in three more matches apiece, with nine matches in each league (as was the case in the last round).
  • The official winner of the Cup will arise from the Hediger League.
  • However, the final rankings within the Hediger League, along with those in the Hagenbeck League, will be combined to form a (proposed) top 12 ranking of the best zoological collections in Europe. This is another of the reasons for the alteration from the originally-planned concept for progression - to ensure the largest possible sample size of results.
After the official winner of the Cup has been crowned, there will be an additional round of matches adapted from my original and more in-depth plan for the Cup which was scrapped due to the decrease in participation and my own physical and mental spoons... but I'll reveal more about that later :)

The first matches will follow tonight!
 
TeaLovingDave said:
So, here are the six competitors which have progressed through to the finals league:

HEDIGER LEAGUE (FINALS)

Prague
Tierpark Berlin
Chester
Zoo Berlin
Burgers
Wroclaw

.......and *here* are the six competitors which will face off against each other in the prestige league:

HAGENBECK LEAGUE (PRESTIGE)

Antwerp & Planckendael
Stuttgart
Beauval
Vienna
Paris
Leipzig

Surprise! :D:p

It's quite simple really:

  • Each competitor will take part in three more matches apiece, with nine matches in each league (as was the case in the last round).
  • The official winner of the Cup will arise from the Hediger League.
  • However, the final rankings within the Hediger League, along with those in the Hagenbeck League, will be combined to form a (proposed) top 12 ranking of the best zoological collections in Europe. This is another of the reasons for the alteration from the originally-planned concept for progression - to ensure the largest possible sample size of results.
After the official winner of the Cup has been crowned, there will be an additional round of matches adapted from my original and more in-depth plan for the Cup which was scrapped due to the decrease in participation and my own physical and mental spoons... but I'll reveal more about that later :)

The first matches will follow tonight!
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I like the format. One confusion though: are we carrying all results over from the previous round (as we did before) or only the ones against other zoos from the group. Does Prague start with 8 wins or only 2? I’m guessing the latter, as having Prague on 8 and, for example, Wroclaw three behind on 5 before anything has started could mean the winner is determined fairly quickly. I understand that all results will be included for the final league of 12 you refer to, but I’m not sure if this would be ideal for the Hediger and Hagenbeck leagues themselves.
 
So, with these categories not being used for the Hediger League as already discussed

CrashMegaraptor said:
Prague vs Wroclaw - Primates
Wroclaw vs T-Berlin - Tropical Forest
Prague vs T-Berlin - Africa
Z-Berlin vs Burgers - Ectotherms
Chester vs Z-Berlin - Asia
Chester vs Burgers - Africa again
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The following won't be in the Hagenbeck League....

Vienna vs Paris - Primates
Vienna vs Beauval - Temperate Forest
Beauval vs Paris - Water
Ant/Planck vs Leipzig - Water again
Ant/Planck vs Stuttgart - Grassland & Desert
Leipzig vs Stuttgart - Islands

Which is all kinda funny because...

  1. Both have a repeat category (Africa and Water, respectively)
  2. Primates is excluded from both.
 
Kalaw said:
I like the format. One confusion though: are we carrying all results over from the previous round (as we did before) or only the ones against other zoos from the group. Does Prague start with 8 wins or only 2? I’m guessing the latter, as having Prague on 8 and, for example, Wroclaw three behind on 5 before anything has started could mean the winner is determined fairly quickly. I understand that all results will be included for the final league of 12 you refer to, but I’m not sure if this would be ideal for the Hediger and Hagenbeck leagues themselves.
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I agree totally, I argued this in the previous round , as even if Beauval won all 3 matches it would be eliminated after the rule change but would have got through if it won all 3 under the previous rule
 
Kalaw said:
One confusion though: are we carrying all results over from the previous round (as we did before) or only the ones against other zoos from the group. Does Prague start with 8 wins or only 2? I’m guessing the latter, as having Prague on 8 and, for example, Wroclaw three behind on 5 before anything has started could mean the winner is determined fairly quickly. I understand that all results will be included for the final league of 12 you refer to, but I’m not sure if this would be ideal for the Hediger and Hagenbeck leagues themselves.
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We will be carrying all results over for the sake of consistency - quite apart from anything else, if I continue flop-flopping back and forth I will get flak from someone or other :p:rolleyes: however, as was the case with the last round I will be keeping track of the scores and percentages according to the initially-planned ruleset, and the result produced will have a bearing on the additional set of matches I alluded to upthread.

pipaluk said:
I agree totally, I argued this in the previous round , as even if Beauval won all 3 matches it would be eliminated after the rule change but would have got through if it won all 3 under the previous rule
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Given the fact that (as I already pointed out) you didn't even bother to participate in the single match that Beauval lost in the last round, you really can't complain that it didn't progress.

Moreover, at the outset of the last round it had every chance to progress even *with* the rule change, as I have already explained - if Zoo Berlin or Burgers (or even both of them) had drawn an absolute stinker of a category and lost one additional match, or if someone had made the case for Beauval in the match it lost and helped to turn the tide, it very well could have progressed.

Look at it this way - despite the fact that I was seriously tempted to drop the Hagenbeck League plan and just progress with the final six competitors given aforementioned factors, I decided to plough on and you now have a chance to help Beauval to win three more matches and end the Cup with a very respectable score :D
 
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TeaLovingDave said:
We will be carrying all results over for the sake of consistency - quite apart from anything else, if I continue flop-flopping back and forth I will get flak from someone or other :p:rolleyes: however, as was the case with the last round I will be keeping track of the scores and percentages according to the initially-planned ruleset, and the result produced will have a bearing on the additional set of matches I alluded to upthread.



Given the fact that (as I already pointed out) you didn't even bother to participate in the single match that Beauval lost in the last round, you really can't complain that it didn't progress.

Moreover, at the outset of the last round it had every chance to progress even *with* the rule change, as I have already explained - if Zoo Berlin or Burgers (or even both of them) had drawn an absolute stinker of a category and lost one additional match, or if someone had made the case for Beauval in the match it lost and helped to turn the tide, it very well could have progressed.

Look at it this way - despite the fact that I was seriously tempted to drop the Hagenbeck League plan and just progress with the final six competitors given aforementioned factors, I decided to plough on and you now have a chance to help Beauval to win three more matches and end the Cup with a very respectable score :D
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My comments this time were just an observation, no criticism was intended -honest!
In an ideal world the fairest way would be for all teams to start the later rounds from scratch and everyone play everyone else in each round but I know that would take too long
 
A pair of exciting and well-fought matches, I reckon:

Finals League - Zoo Berlin vs Tierpark Berlin - LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN

Zoo Berlin - 52/105 points - 49.524%
Tierpark Berlin - 53/105 points - 50.476%

Prestige League - Beauval vs Antwerp and Planckendael - TROPICAL FOREST

Beauval - 63/110 points - 57.273%
Antwerp and Planckendael - 47/110 points - 42.727%

I have strong hopes that the next two will be even better, though!

European (Tea)Cup - FINALS LEAGUE - Chester vs Prague

European (Tea)Cup - PRESTIGE LEAGUE - Beauval vs Stuttgart

Now get discussing and voting!
 
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