European (Tea)Cup - PRESTIGE LEAGUE - Beauval vs Antwerp and Planckendael

Beauval vs Antwerp and Planckendael - TROPICAL FOREST

  • Beauval 5/0 Antwerp and Planckendael

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Antwerp and Planckendael 4/1 Beauval

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Antwerp and Planckendael 5/0 Beauval

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .

TeaLovingDave

Moderator
Staff member
15+ year member
A good one to start off with, I reckon - the category is TROPICAL FOREST.

As always, remember that although posting your evidence and reasoning isn't mandatory (unless you wish to cast a 5:0 vote) it is strongly requested, as an increase in discussion and evidence generally leads to an increase in participation and therefore - hopefully - a more reliable result.
 
I've been to Antwerp within the last couple years and Beauval a little while ago, but not to Planckendael. This category feels very strongly represented at both participants.

The Equatorial Dome and South American Aviary both opened after my Beauval visit, so it is likely that the zoo has become even stronger in this category than I recall it being. I won't detail any of those as I have no first-hand experience of them.

The zoo has no less than five tropical greenhouses, although not all of their inhabitants are likely to count here. The Birds Greenhouse was a particular strong suit, with some very large and densely-planted aviaries, all wire-fronted, amidst a large and immersive walkthrough space. Rarities here include Andean Cock-of-the-rock and Pesquet's Parrot. There are also free-flying birds in the Gorillas Greenhouse, which I found particularly excellent, with several pathways off into the bushes allowing close-up views of the birds, and some waterways in the floor inhabited by stingrays proving a particular highlight. If memory serves, there were also some stingrays, along with such mammals as chevrotains and sloths, in the bird house. The climax of the Gorillas Greenhouse is a former manatee pool now home to large Amazonian fish and crocodilians, for whom it is exceptionally deep. The gorilla enclosure itself is one of the larger that I have seen and decently well-landscaped. Elsewhere in the zoo is a similarly-sized second enclosure with a bachelor group.

The Apes Greenhouse has some nice chimpanzee and orangutan enclosures, with good space and solid climbing (although for the orangs you would maybe want a little more, and the landscaping is a little unimaginative). Also in this building are some mediocre callitrichid enclosures and a Vivarium, which I thought was good, but the inhabitants have likely changed drastically with several of them moving to the Dome. The worst part of Beauval in this category is probably the Sumatran Tiger enclosure, which isn't pictured in the gallery, but struck me as far too small and a little bare. Nearby is a rather good Jaguar enclosure - certainly the best of Beauval's central belt of feline enclosures, and fortunately for them here, the only other one that counts in this category. The zoo keeps multiple species of lemurs in beautiful islands allowing them to climb to remarkable heights on mature trees, and nearby is one of the larger and more attractive Pampas enclosures that I have personally seen (the only place I've ever seen baby Capybaras, and they were adorable). Unfortunately, they do share with some pinioned ducks.

Moving to the southern portion of the zoo, I really like the big Clouded Leopard and Javan Langur cages, spacious with a lot of climbing, and attractively fading into the hillside behind. Tasmanian Devils are always a delight, and their enclosure is quite large and steep. Not sure how many inhabitants of the Australia Greenhouse count, but I am sure the tree kangaroos, who have a very large enclosure, will. There is a basic, but big and pretty, Okapi enclosure, shared with one of Beauval's best rarities: the Yellow-backed Duiker. While the majority of Asian Plains won't count, I suspect the Malayan Tapir and Reeve's Muntjac enclosure, which is really good aside from the mix with pinioned cranes. I think we concluded in the previous thread that the Giant Pandas count here, which would prove an enormous advantage to Beauval as well.

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@Maxime - family gorilla enclosure, shared with Patas Monkeys.

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@Antoine - new stingray, caiman and other Amazonian fish pool, formerly for manatees.

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@SivatheriumGuy - orangutan and gibbon enclosure.

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@Maguari - a small portion of the Vivarium.
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@lintworm - Jaguar enclosure.

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@Maguari - overview of the guereza and lemur islands.

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@Antoine - Pampas enclosure.

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@Antoine - Clouded Leopard enclosure.

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@twilighter - Okapi and Yellow-backed Duiker enclosure.

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@twilighter - Tasmanian Devil enclosure.

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@TheoV - tapir, muntjac and White-naped Crane enclosure.

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@twilighter - one of two excellent Giant Panda enclosures.

Now that I think about it, this may well be Beauval's strongest category. There is so much of excellence, and other than the tigers, nothing of any real weakness. All the above and that isn't even including the Dome, which is one of the 'big five' of European tropical houses!

Antwerp doesn't really have much to answer with. I'm not sure whether or not the Indian Elephants count, but if they do then that is a serious dent here as the enclosure is awful. They of course have some excellent ape enclosures of their own, although slightly weaker than Beauval's, I would argue, with Amahoro the last Eastern Gorilla in captivity being a highlight. There are several relevant offerings in the excellent Reptile House as well, but in general, Antwerp alone has nothing even remotely comparable to Beauval. I will have to wait to see from others what Planckendael has, but from what I have seen in the gallery it doesn't quite seem like enough to turn the tides. 3-2 Beauval for now.
 
Now that I think about it, this may well be Beauval's strongest category.

I think maybe Africa is pretty close as well, I reckon not many, if any in Europe, are as good on that front. Hippos, elephants, the savanna, bits of the dome, apes, okapi, the new rocks of Dodoma, lions, cheetahs, plus a bunch of aviaries and other primate species - definitely a strong suit.

Does Planckandael have anything to offer in this category? It seems pretty clear cut right now but wondering if there's much on the Belgian side besides Amahoro?
 
I think maybe Africa is pretty close as well, I reckon not many, if any in Europe, are as good on that front. Hippos, elephants, the savanna, bits of the dome, apes, okapi, the new rocks of Dodoma, lions, cheetahs, plus a bunch of aviaries and other primate species - definitely a strong suit.

Does Planckandael have anything to offer in this category? It seems pretty clear cut right now but wondering if there's much on the Belgian side besides Amahoro?
Planckendael has a wonderfull bonobo enclosure. They also have some relevant African species like bongo. In the SA part they have Bush dogs, a monkey walkthrough island and giant anteaters. The Oceania part has cassowary and koala. The Asia part at Planckendael has red panda and Asian Elephants (if those count?) and a tropical house with butterflies and bird aviaries. They also keep Sulawesi Crested Macaque and ASCO, and Orang-Utans and Gibbons.
 
I think maybe Africa is pretty close as well, I reckon not many, if any in Europe, are as good on that front. Hippos, elephants, the savanna, bits of the dome, apes, okapi, the new rocks of Dodoma, lions, cheetahs, plus a bunch of aviaries and other primate species - definitely a strong suit.

Does Planckandael have anything to offer in this category? It seems pretty clear cut right now but wondering if there's much on the Belgian side besides Amahoro?

Probably one of the toughest matches so far.

Imo there is enough to win for the Belgian duo. From what i heard about the Dome at Bauval it isn't the best executed tropical house. And just being large is imo not enough (Side note, if i remember corectly the manatees at the dome to not count). Of course Amahoro is the stronges belgian asset here. But despite there are many lovely (historical) exhibits at both collections. Let's start with a few pictures, before coming to another important point.

A short overview of Antwerp, starting with the butterfly house


The monkey house isn't state of the art anymore, but for the smaller species despite the lack of outdoor area for most of theme not too bad. Also home to tree kangaroos


The okapis with the historical moorish temple is just one of many stunning buildings at Antwerp, mixed with red duiker


Several exhibits at and around the bird house and at aviaries throughout the park are home to tropical birds




Maybe not the best aesthetic, but still very good ape exhibits.

Gorilla mixed with Hamlyns monkey. I haven't found a picture of the outdoor area of the chimps. But it is similar to the Gorilla one.


Part of the indoor area for chimps


The bongo exhibit as an example for another hofstock exhibt. Other mammals at the park include babirusa, malayan tapir, pygmy hippos and dusky pademelon


Furthermore there are several tanks at the aquarium and terrarium, including a large tank for fish from the Amazonas and komodo dragons





Despite the exhibits one should also mention the large history between Antwerp and animals from the Congo. Of course the okapis stand out, but also others like the congo peafowl. Very few zoos have such a strong bond to an animal like Antwerp and the Okapi (Ex- and In-situ, especially sind most of the In-situ work is financed from zoos around the globe). That they exhibit theme at such a great historical building is another large benefit for Antwerp. Yeah Antwerp (and Planckendael, where i intend to bring up some pictures to, unless someone is faster than me) have nothing as striking and large as Beauval. But given the fact that both competitors offers a lot within this category i do not think, that just building large is enough to win. I definitely prefer the lovely setting at Antwerp.
 
Probably one of the toughest matches so far.

Imo there is enough to win for the Belgian duo. From what i heard about the Dome at Bauval it isn't the best executed tropical house. And just being large is imo not enough (Side note, if i remember corectly the manatees at the dome to not count). Of course Amahoro is the stronges belgian asset here. But despite there are many lovely (historical) exhibits at both collections. Let's start with a few pictures, before coming to another important point.

A short overview of Antwerp, starting with the butterfly house


The monkey house isn't state of the art anymore, but for the smaller species despite the lack of outdoor area for most of theme not too bad. Also home to tree kangaroos


The okapis with the historical moorish temple is just one of many stunning buildings at Antwerp, mixed with red duiker


Several exhibits at and around the bird house and at aviaries throughout the park are home to tropical birds




Maybe not the best aesthetic, but still very good ape exhibits.

Gorilla mixed with Hamlyns monkey. I haven't found a picture of the outdoor area of the chimps. But it is similar to the Gorilla one.


Part of the indoor area for chimps


The bongo exhibit as an example for another hofstock exhibt. Other mammals at the park include babirusa, malayan tapir, pygmy hippos and dusky pademelon


Furthermore there are several tanks at the aquarium and terrarium, including a large tank for fish from the Amazonas and komodo dragons





Despite the exhibits one should also mention the large history between Antwerp and animals from the Congo. Of course the okapis stand out, but also others like the congo peafowl. Very few zoos have such a strong bond to an animal like Antwerp and the Okapi (Ex- and In-situ, especially sind most of the In-situ work is financed from zoos around the globe). That they exhibit theme at such a great historical building is another large benefit for Antwerp. Yeah Antwerp (and Planckendael, where i intend to bring up some pictures to, unless someone is faster than me) have nothing as striking and large as Beauval. But given the fact that both competitors offers a lot within this category i do not think, that just building large is enough to win. I definitely prefer the lovely setting at Antwerp.
All good points (I forgot about the tank in the Aquarium, and the historical connection with the Okapis), and you are right to say that the manatees don't count here. One major thing that you fail to mention that in the 21st Century, Antwerp still keeps Indian Elephants in these stalls:

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@KevinB

If the two bull elephants both stand in the same stall at any one time, they can't move without crashing into one another, something which I had the misfortune of witnessing on my visit. I really struggle to justify that. After its recent expansion, the outdoor area, pictured below, is a little better, but still the worst that I have seen by some margin:

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@KevinB

I will wait for you to provide an overview of Planckendael before deciding, but personally, the sister collection has a lot of heavy lifting to do in order to overcome this and prevent a 4-1 vote from myself. I'm not fond of Beauval's tiger enclosure, and from photos the new one for Pygmy Hippos in the Dome isn't great either, but this is a whole other level of awful. Content staying at a 3-2 for now, though.

And of course, I am happy to accept that all of the above is redundant if we conclude that Indian Elephants are a grasslands species, but I personally think it is fairer to count them for both 'grasslands' and 'tropical forests.'
 
@Kalaw i agree with the elephants, i simply forgot theme and i agree with you about the situation (if i remember correctly i already mention this at their match against Stuttgart). And against my original intention i also finished with Planckendael now.

At Planckendael there is one of the largest bonobos exhibits at Europe. The picture shows only a part of the large island


Inside are several separate areas


Aviary for ring tailed and black lemurs


Bongo and dik dik paddock


Bush dogs at the american part of the zoo


There is also a very nice walkthrough for new world monkeys


Aguit and giant ant eater


At this part of the park there are also capybaras and a few birds

Probably the most of Planckendaels offering are within their asian area with an impressive exhibit for elephants.


The asiatic lion exhibit


There are some aviaries for tropical birds around at the asian themed part


At my visit the orangutan house (which is also home to gibbons and a bunch of other species) wasn't opened yet, so i hope to describe it at least somehow correct
Herps


One of the ape islands they are also mixed with ASCO


One of the indoor ape exhibits. Afaik they also have some butterflies at the house




Gibbon island


The exhibit for sulawesi crested macaques


Last the Oceania area

If i remember correctly only the cassowaries count.


I hope i have covered most of the Belgians offering. If not, anyone fell free to add something. It is certainly not perfect but imo still a very large variety. Imo it is a very close match, where mostly personal preferences will make the difference. Given the lovely setting of the exhibits at Antwerp and the fact that you can see five different ape species at KDMA including Amahoro make a small advantage in favor of Antwerp/Planckendael
 
I will wait for you to provide an overview of Planckendael before deciding, but personally, the sister collection has a lot of heavy lifting to do in order to overcome this and prevent a 4-1 vote from myself. I'm not fond of Beauval's tiger enclosure, and from photos the new one for Pygmy Hippos in the Dome isn't great either, but this is a whole other level of awful. Content staying at a 3-2 for now, though.

Maybe one more thougt on this. Although it is out of question that the elephant exhibit is really bad. I rather see such an exhibit used a few more years after the EEP coordinator asked for it, than a not necessary, completly new built Pygmy Hippos exhibit at one of the richest European zoos which will most likely be used for a very long time and beeing (too) small since the opening.
 
@Kalaw i agree with the elephants, i simply forgot theme and i agree with you about the situation (if i remember correctly i already mention this at their match against Stuttgart). And against my original intention i also finished with Planckendael now.

At Planckendael there is one of the largest bonobos exhibits at Europe. The picture shows only a part of the large island


Inside are several separate areas


Aviary for ring tailed and black lemurs


Bongo and dik dik paddock


Bush dogs at the american part of the zoo


There is also a very nice walkthrough for new world monkeys


Aguit and giant ant eater


At this part of the park there are also capybaras and a few birds

Probably the most of Planckendaels offering are within their asian area with an impressive exhibit for elephants.


The asiatic lion exhibit


There are some aviaries for tropical birds around at the asian themed part


At my visit the orangutan house (which is also home to gibbons and a bunch of other species) wasn't opened yet, so i hope to describe it at least somehow correct
Herps


One of the ape islands they are also mixed with ASCO


One of the indoor ape exhibits. Afaik they also have some butterflies at the house




Gibbon island


The exhibit for sulawesi crested macaques


Last the Oceania area

If i remember correctly only the cassowaries count.


I hope i have covered most of the Belgians offering. If not, anyone fell free to add something. It is certainly not perfect but imo still a very large variety. Imo it is a very close match, where mostly personal preferences will make the difference. Given the lovely setting of the exhibits at Antwerp and the fact that you can see five different ape species at KDMA including Amahoro make a small advantage in favor of Antwerp/Planckendael
Excellent overview that makes me feel a lot more content with a 3-2 Beauval as opposed to 4-1. All the primate enclosures look excellent, but I'm particularly impressed by the hornbill aviary. My favourite birds, so often presented in tight and restrictive aviaries - to see one that provides them with ample space for flight both indoors and outdoors is really impressive. Certainly much better than the aviaries for large hornbills in Beauval's Birds Greenhouse, although supposedly there are also Von der Decken's Hornbills in a large walkthrough aviary within the Dome.

For reference:

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@Maxime - Rhinoceros Hornbill aviary. I can't remember if there is outdoor access, but if there is then it is probably quite small as most of the outdoor aviaries adjacent to the greenhouse were poor.

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@Antoine - walkthrough in the Dome, with an outdoor aviary attached.

Would be very interested if someone who has visited Beauval since the Dome and S.A. Aviary opeed can explain what they contribute to this, as I don't know anything beyond the gallery and zoo website.
 
Probably one of the toughest matches so far.
Gorilla mixed with Hamlyns monkey. I haven't found a picture of the outdoor area of the chimps. But it is similar to the Gorilla one.
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@KevinB
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@KevinB - two sides of the Chimpanzee enclosure which has received even more climbing frames (second picture). The enclosure goes on for a bit longer than is shown on the first pic.

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@KevinB - They also have 2 larger indoor areas like this, and about 4 or 5 boxes to seperate them.
 
In addition to what @remar already wrote about Antwerp

Chimpansee outdoor:

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And the Owl-faced guenon foraging in the Gorilla-Guenon enclosure

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Very unfortunate that Planckendael replaced its excellent Asian hall with orangutans and some pigeons a few years ago.

In terms of species, both Belgian zoos could very possibly still compete with Beauval, and the historic buildings in Antwerp are an absolute bonus there, but I fear they will still rightly lose out.
 

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Given the excellent feedback relating to the category-relevant exhibits and species at the Belgian collections, which (in my opinion) make it fairly clear that this is quite a close match even if the edge might end up going towards Beauval, I would be interested to hear from @Raikou and @Jogy as the sole 4:1 voters regarding their views and opinions :)
 
Looking at all the pictures - and despite being at all three locations in the last 3 years - I've changed my vote to 3:2 Beauval as rightfully there are some really nice enclosures especially at Plankendael that justify 2 points...
 
The new hippo house at Antwerp opened today, so it now counts for the cup too right?

For pictures: Zoo Antwerpen heropent nijlpaardenhuis na verbouwing: zes diersoorten

To maintain internal consistency with prior decisions - to be specific, the time we allowed criticism of the bull elephant exhibit at Zoo Berlin to be permitted within a thread which we learned a day or so into the match was actually posted some hours after the bull elephant died and left the exhibit vacant, on the grounds the discussion pertained to the status quo as understood when the thread started - I think it would not be permissible for this match.

It's fair game for future matches if relevant however.
 
A well-fought match on both sides!

Beauval - 63/110 points - 57.273%
Antwerp and Planckendael - 47/110 points - 42.727%
 
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