Outdated morality and ethical standards in zoos professionals of the past

[ZooNews2024]

This thread's title is "Twycross Zoo:Molly Badham" so hardly unreasonable to discuss her in this thread.

If she is being singled out it's because she is the subject of the thread.

Other than TLD's point, that her long dead thread appears to have been resurrected for a reason.

Ann, that hardly explains why Hagenbeck was selected, with no reference to others when he is not in the thread title.

 

[merlin]

Ann, that hardly explains why Hagenbeck was selected, with no reference to others when he is not in the thread title.

This has already been explained. He's one of the people everyone in this community knows and it was to illustrate a point being made. You're just acting weird for not accepting the fairly logical explanation which everyone else seems to understand. Maybe you should stop and actually ask yourself if there's anything you're doing wrong, since literally nobody else seems to have an issue with this...

 

[ZooNews2024]

This has already been explained. He's one of the people everyone in this community knows and it was to illustrate a point being made. You're just acting weird for not accepting the fairly logical explanation which everyone else seems to understand. Maybe you should stop and actually ask yourself if there's anything you're doing wrong, since literally nobody else seems to have an issue with this...

Why are you being so selective and not criticising everyone who deserved it.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Criticism which arose as part of an active and ongoing discussion would be entirely different - if a thread had been created recently to discuss the cruelty of past zoological husbandry practice, and the OP had joined in order to take part in that discussion, it would be an entirely different and perfectly justifiable scenario.

Problem (hopefully) solved - I have turned the thread into a more general one focusing on the wider subject, so now people can discuss and highlight any and all the examples they wish and the thread can return to the topic at hand rather than arguments about its scope.

 

[ZooNews2024]

I would like to thank the moderators for splitting this off, and to re-state my own position as an amateur zoo historian.

At no point did I defend any of the outdated practices of the past, regardless of whether these were done by major scientific institutions or by private individuals.

All I asked (demanded!) is that these actions be fairly, equally and consistently remembered, and debated - and NOT air-brushed out of history.

Their legacy is the World we live in today - whether you like (or approve of) that, or not.

 

[GeeZee]

(MODERATOR NOTE: post split from an obituary of Molly Badham which was "bumped" after several years by a newly registered member as below)

Her work with the PG Tips chimps should not be commended. My dad worked at Chessington and London Zoo with primates for a number of years, and one of his closest friends/colleagues headed primates at Twycross. I was hearing from him the other day that she could be quite cruel behind closed doors. He would head into work early sometimes and catch her training sessions with them, where she would tie their legs tightly to the stilts they would have to walk on to practise, and if they got it wrong she would hit them over the head. My dad also visited and was allowed to go behind the scenes because of his work, and he says they were severely messed up after they retired. They had to be kept in a back area because its too distressing/disturbing to the public to see, and when Molly came to visit them while he was there, as soon as she walked in they started screaming and defecating everywhere out of fear. Granted she has done good work for animals and conservation as a whole, by she is by no means a good person.

While I thank you for your contribution and experience, it is a bit bizarre that you would “bump” a thread that is nearly 20 years old - I’d be interested to know what made you do that, or at least how you searched it out specifically.

Although as has already been said this user has literally made an account, posted this and then not logged in again, seems rather fruitless arguing about it.

We can’t reasonably expect people who were born over 100 years ago to have the same knowledge or ethical frameworks as we do today, it’s like comparing chalk and cheese.