Monkey World Ape Rescue Centre Monkey World Ape Rescue Centre 2009 #1

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Kifaru Bwana said:
Please get a life, my friend! If you can not stand the heat, you should not stand in the kitchen! ;) In other words valid criticism regarding Monkey World should not be confronted by - like me, not like me - assertions. These are way of the mark and have no place here in my judgement! We are all free and fair to discuss what us posters think are the issues involved or what is noteworthy to post onto others. You as an individual do not stand above us, nor below us, so please treat us with some respect and take it all at face value!
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I am sorry if you think that I dont want any criticism of MW because thats not the case as I dont agree with everything that they do I just want to understand why they seem so universally disliked when as a member of the public I actually enjoy visiting them.

And I actually thought by asking my questions I was joining in a full and frank disucssion of the issue.
 
Gigit said:
IIf that is all zoos are bothered about - I don't like you because you don't like me - then it's not too serious.
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I think MW have been quite outspoken in their critisism of mainstream zoos in the past which is not likely to win them friends.

I don't feel able to comment fairly any further, except to say that for an organisation starting from nothing their initial rescue work, mainly with the Chimps, was a major achievement. Its a pity 'politics' seems to have got into the equation somewhere along the line..:(
 
these are the only cristisms i have of MW:

1)Aris was moved out of the orang nursery too soon,look at hsiao-ning,shes almost 6 and shes still in the nursery
2)Someone should have been watchng Amy in the last few stages of her pregnancy
3)The original 4 capuchins should have been left together
4)Hananya and Rodney-if they knew hananya was soon going to challenge rodney then why ddint they seperate rodney from the group?
 
to be even handed about this, MW are not the only place to make mistakes mixing animals. It can happen anywhere. Jersey sent a seven year old male Orangutan, to a collection in France(La Boisierre) where they quickly introduced him into their group - the adult male immediately killed him.:( There are no hard and fast rules here.
 
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crust2007 said:
these are the only cristisms i have of MW:

1)Aris was moved out of the orang nursery too soon,look at hsiao-ning,shes almost 6 and shes still in the nursery
2)Someone should have been watchng Amy in the last few stages of her pregnancy
3)The original 4 capuchins should have been left together
4)Hananya and Rodney-if they knew hananya was soon going to challenge rodney then why ddint they seperate rodney from the group?
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Keeping in mind that haven't been to MM (though not for lack of trying) :) :

1) I guess Aris may have been precocious/too rambunctious? The woollies (sorry about constantly using them as an example!) had differences between their offspring's development rates, if I recall rightly, and orangs are closer to humans.
2) I wondered, when i was watching the series, if they expected to come in and find the baby abandoned but alive and relatively well. However, it would indeed have made sense for a keeper to camp over, especially because of Amy's history.
3) Agreed, though it seemed (to me) like the team at MW hoped that the existing capuchins would lead by example by adding them to the Chilean group.
4) Again, guess work and opinion, but maybe they weren't expecting Rodney to be too seriously injured/killed. The bachelors spar a lot, but no harm (that I am aware of) has come of not splitting Butch and Paco.

Also-yet again, just my silly opinion-I thought the whole Aris situation was a tragic accident. The keepers weren't really to know that he would be bitten and have an adverse affect to to the anaesthetic (though they might well have suspected an injury of some kind). Yes, the intro may well have been too early, but wasn't Kai in that group?

I'll shut up now :p
 
I'd just like to say it doesn't always matter wether a zoo has kept the species before in its history as zoo staff frequently move around from other collections with the experience and species husbandry knowledge!:)
 
mazfc said:
I am sorry if you think that I dont want any criticism of MW because thats not the case as I dont agree with everything that they do I just want to understand why they seem so universally disliked when as a member of the public I actually enjoy visiting them.
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Those are my feelings too.
 
I think it's commendable that Monkey World allowed the whole incident with Aris, the loss of Amy's baby and the problems with Ben's introduction into Hananya's group to appear in the television show, it would have been easy to avoid showing it.

Surely the accidental baby chimps were contraceptive failures not due to them thinking any male was too young to breed because they have all occurred in groups with a fully equipped mature alpha male.

Re the Ailson Cronin being rude to the marmoset woman - I thought it appeared much worse on the trailer than it did in context in the programme - they seemed to reach an amicable conclusion and the woman obviously agreed to appear on the programme.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Whereas, I do no take away any of its efforts to rescue great apes from miserable captive conditions, I do have qualms with its apparent disinterest in preserving the great apes in captivity nor in providing the great apes in its care with real natural social environments. If integrated into good social environments these great apes can an will be able to resocialise with other individuals of their species and exhibit the full compliment of all their species' natural behaviours. To deny these traumatised great apes' the full complement and reportoire of amongst others their dominance/subordinate and their reproductive behaviours is curious - to me - as well as unjust.
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MW tries its best to put the chimps in social groups and allow a normal hierarchy to develop short of the chimps killing each other if they can help it. Its not feasible to try allow that many animals to breed freely, and it's of little benefit to a group to allow them to breed and then have to hand raise the infants because the chimps don't know what to do and so on into the next generation. They have allowed the one successful chimp mother to breed again because of the benefits to the group.

You seem to want to allow these traumatised great apes' the full complement and reportoire and yet you'd have them plucked out of their groups at the mercy of their genetic potential to the chimp population.
 
i see it this way , mw is a rescue centre , and what a sad state of affairs it would be if mw were asked to help with the rescue of captive chimps and then been unable to help because theres no room , whats wrong with an organisation rescuing a primate and then taking on a lifelong responsibility for that animal and giving it a happy retirement home for the rest of its life ?
 
Changing the subject slightly why do Monkey World allow the chimps to breed "for example Susie and her youngesters Eddie and Bart" Why does monkey world need more chimps and isnt there already enough chimps in this country to go around. What good is the births of Eddie and Bart going to do apart from publicity?
 
Susie proved to be a fabulous mum , and even though Eddi wasn't planned she was a wonderful addition to the troop and brought them all together , it really changed the dynamics of paddy's group helping them to become a really settled group working together to look after the youngster , it was decided after this success to let Susie have a 2nd baby you only have to visit the park and see the whole group helping out looking after Bart too see it was the right thing to do .

i don't suppose mw themselves would say they "need" more chimps but if they are asked to help in the rescue of an animal in need then thats what they are there to do . of course there are enough chimps in this country but mw wasn't set up to take in chimps from over populated Establishments , more to rescue those primates who are suffering and need a new home to live out what life they have left in care and comfort
 
Tigerlemurguy said:
Changing the subject slightly why do Monkey World allow the chimps to breed "for example Susie and her youngesters Eddie and Bart" Why does monkey world need more chimps and isnt there already enough chimps in this country to go around. What good is the births of Eddie and Bart going to do apart from publicity?
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Other than Bart (see above) the births were contraceptive failures. Eddi is even named for the doctor who put the contraceptive implant in her mother. In one other case (I think) it was done because of the mother having problems with the contraception but short of abortions all the others were unavoidable.
 
they dont breed many orangs,i thought they were part of the breeding programme.I know amy had a baby last yr,but the last successful one was dinda almsot 3 yrs ago.
 
crust2007 said:
they dont breed many orangs,i thought they were part of the breeding programme.I know amy had a baby last yr,but the last successful one was dinda almsot 3 yrs ago.
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What do they propose to do with the Orangutans they breed? In most zoos breeding is controlled nowadays but when it occurs it is chiefly to provide the next generation for the zoos to exhibit.

In MonkeyWorld's case is there some other stated plan?
 
i dont know what they will do with them.But in 2003,alison did say it would be nice to return them to the wild if it was possible
 
That is perfectly possible, in the same way Howletts in Kent has been rehabilitating Gorillas to Africa. But its an expensive exercise and there are already large numbers of Orangutans in captivity in South East Asia which, if possible also need rehabilitating too. Still, it gives an aim for any breeding at MW.
 
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