No, they got them after my visit. I haven't seen them or photos of them, but they do claim to have them.
European Bison news
- Thread starter Jurek7
- Start date
If you bothered to look few messages up in this thread, history of the last European bison in North America is described.
I guess wildlife can simply smell it. Dogs, rats and honey bees were trained to find explosives, there is no reason why deer or bison could not smell explosives too.
Current population numbers of European Bison at the end of 2003 were just released, currently for Poland. The population grew, and there are 2820 wisents, including 194 in zoos, wildlife parks and enclosed herds, and 2626 in the wild.
Wild populations are:
1. BIESZCZADY – 802
2. LASY JANOWSKIE – 10
3. PUSZCZA AUGUSTOWSKA – 27
4. PUSZCZA BIAŁOWIESKA – 892
5. PUSZCZA BORECKA – 136
6. PUSZCZA KNYSZYŃSKA – 322
7. PUSZCZA ROMINCKA – 9
8. STADA W ZACHODNIEJ POLSCE (West Poland) – 428.
Source: Białowieski Park Narodowy | Białowieza
My comments:
In West Poland, few years ago one sub-herd settled only 35 km from the German border and continues to live there. I keep waiting when some cross the border. There are several large forests in the East Germany, including these abandoned military areas, and dispersal is the best insurance against disease and other threats. In the West Poland, several cases of poaching of Wisent were found again in 2023. This is worrying also because over-eager hunters in West Poland are potentially a danger to people, too. Wisent are likely shot by over-enthusiastic or shortsighted hunters hoping for red deer or wild boar. Unfortunately, health tests and supervision of hunting clubs in Poland are often fiction. Still, the Wisent population in West Poland is growing. Interestingly, the increase from 349 in 2022 to 428 in 2023 is higher than realistically possible by breeding. Probably some Wisents were lost to counts in the 2010s, when one year there was a visible dip in the number of counted cows. They probably dispersed to an unknown place and reappeared in 2023.
I guess wildlife can simply smell it. Dogs, rats and honey bees were trained to find explosives, there is no reason why deer or bison could not smell explosives too.
Current population numbers of European Bison at the end of 2003 were just released, currently for Poland. The population grew, and there are 2820 wisents, including 194 in zoos, wildlife parks and enclosed herds, and 2626 in the wild.
Wild populations are:
1. BIESZCZADY – 802
2. LASY JANOWSKIE – 10
3. PUSZCZA AUGUSTOWSKA – 27
4. PUSZCZA BIAŁOWIESKA – 892
5. PUSZCZA BORECKA – 136
6. PUSZCZA KNYSZYŃSKA – 322
7. PUSZCZA ROMINCKA – 9
8. STADA W ZACHODNIEJ POLSCE (West Poland) – 428.
Source: Białowieski Park Narodowy | Białowieza
My comments:
In West Poland, few years ago one sub-herd settled only 35 km from the German border and continues to live there. I keep waiting when some cross the border. There are several large forests in the East Germany, including these abandoned military areas, and dispersal is the best insurance against disease and other threats. In the West Poland, several cases of poaching of Wisent were found again in 2023. This is worrying also because over-eager hunters in West Poland are potentially a danger to people, too. Wisent are likely shot by over-enthusiastic or shortsighted hunters hoping for red deer or wild boar. Unfortunately, health tests and supervision of hunting clubs in Poland are often fiction. Still, the Wisent population in West Poland is growing. Interestingly, the increase from 349 in 2022 to 428 in 2023 is higher than realistically possible by breeding. Probably some Wisents were lost to counts in the 2010s, when one year there was a visible dip in the number of counted cows. They probably dispersed to an unknown place and reappeared in 2023.
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I suppose with the new Government that regulation of hunting and the hunter profession may be more than likely. Also improved forest and protected area management.
FYI: I am so happy we are finally getting to a substantial figure of almost 3,000 wisent and 2 populations hearing the magic figure of 1,000 individuals for that population.
Markhor625
Member
I remember seeing them there many years ago as a kid. As a zoo curator some years ago, in my search for animals I came across a private holder of bison in the Midwest, my mind is vague, who claimed to have a herd of pure Wistent descended from animals he got from Catskill Game farm. I never verified it, and private holders can be sketchy. I also remember Toronto Zoo used to have a large herd of them. Dont know if they still do.
Wisp O' Mist
Well-Known Member
Grant's Farm? I keep hearing rumors that they have Wisent.
The last Wisent at Toronto Zoo died in 2009.
Don Majeski
Well-Known Member
So a breeder , who supplies animals to hunting lodges, purchased Wisents from an accredited AZA institution dedicated to preservation ( National Zoo) so they could be resold, then shot?
Unbelievable
If that happened, it meant there was at least a chance of perpetuating the stock, in which AZA collections had clearly lost interest
just a wild guess but perhaps you meant 2023?
Don Majeski
Well-Known Member
Seems a sad but inconvenient truth
Wisp O' Mist
Well-Known Member
Shadow Nursery didn't set out to provide exotic animals to hunting reserves, it was a private venture run by a man who just happened to like rare and exotic *animals and was invested in propagating them.
(*And plants. Mostly plants, to be perfectly honest. Don Shadow's first love was flora, the fauna was just a side interest of his. Hence why he named his place Shadow Nursery.)
When Shadow Nursery went under, it was only then that the animals were sold into the private hunting trade.
You're not aware that up until ten or fifteen years ago, it was commonplace for American zoos (Yes, even AZA-accredited ones) to move entire species into the private sector due to lack of space or industry interest, often with few to no restrictions on what said private individuals did to said animals (Or their offspring) afterwards, are you?
Hell, it still goes on nowadays! Albeit usually only with specific individual animals and with significant rules attached to what can be done to said individuals.
You might find the book Animal Underworld by Alan Green an enlightening read. It's dated (It was published back in 1999), but it's a good historical resource if you want to learn more about this topic.
Or you could just search ZooChat, there's been plenty of discussion about the practice here over the years.
It's also worth mentioning that Don didn't ultimately sell the animals, it was his family who were left to manage the animals after Don suddenly fell ill and was unable to continuing caring for his collection.
And as you mention, animals are still regularly shifted out of the AZA and into the private sector, but there are more rules now for who they can send animals to. Many of us are familiar with Hemker which has managed to amass a collection representing almost every species you can think of in the US, a lot of which have come from AZA clear-outs.
~Thylo
~Thylo
Don Majeski
Well-Known Member
I was aware of the practice but was not aware that it was so prevalent.
They might as well ship animals directly to the abattoir open food processing plants on the grounds sought of a,
“Meet ‘em, then eat ‘em policy”
I suppose that was original intention of those, “Game Farms” of our youth that evolved into recreational but were still supplying exotic fodder to hunting lodges and canned hunts - I recall some notorious stories about the former Catskills “Game Farms” but was unaware that true zoological institutions -allegedly dedicated to preservation , conservation and science subscribed to these practices.
Anyway it is a shame we have abandoned the propagation and exhibition of Wisent in scientific institutions
Zoos sending surplus stock to the US private trade and some ending up at hunting lodges is NOT the same thing as zoos directly selling to hunting lodges.
How do you think all of these exotic hoofstock species got into these unaccredited zoos and private ranches in the first place?
~Thylo
Don Majeski
Well-Known Member
Directly or indirectly this unfortunate
Hopefully would employ more contraception procedures before culling their herds before selling them off to private “ preserves” which , they must be aware of by now. Inevitably leads to them being bred for hunting lodges .
As you know the entire situation in the USA that allows any kind and amount of exotic animals to be maintained as pets, trophy’s - call them what you wish -is absurd.
Every day there is another horror story about an exotic carnivore or primate or reptile doing something , then having to be exterminated as a result of their “owner” having been allowed to own them in the first place .
When there should be laws in place that allows individuals to maintain non domesticated animals merely to satiate their egos is beyond me .
Everything is not “livestock “ - to be worn or eaten but this government certainly doesn’t see it that way
As the owner of a private bird collection, I find this attitude objectionable in the extreme. I keep my twenty odd species to the best of my ability at considerable expense, with occasional birds coming and going with the zoo world. At least three species would be globally extinct but for stocks maintained in private collections. I’m thinking Nene, Vietnam Pheasant and Pere David Deer. Also almost certainly several Goodeid fish species. And yes, I have my birds because I enjoy them. The world in general benefits from there being a few more of those species in existence.
I would add that many species cannot be effectively contracepted without permanently compromising the fertility of those individuals
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Don Majeski
Well-Known Member
I did mean to denigrate yourself or any private collectors who have the means, knowledge and a sufficient amount of well trained staff proficient veterinary to maintain a monotypical or eclectic collection . And, yes, I salute the Duke of Bedford as as the Aspinal’s and Durrell and Arab potentates of the globe for their great contribution.
However, you and your kin are the great exceptions to the rule .
In the U.S. exotic animals are treated as if they were one step away from a Wuhan wet market.
What was the recent case of the notorious “Tiger Man” or the woman who had anthropoidal erotica relationship with her chimp or rappers who keep Tiger, crocodiles or anything with fangs to impress their potential nubile teenage conquests ?
As has been stated: There are more tigers in Texas than in Sumatra
Something is awry here
I applaud you for your efforts but hope there’s would be greater federal laws to prohibit the ownership of animals from nature being held by thrill seekers
Don Majeski
Well-Known Member
Wisp O' Mist
Well-Known Member
Incorrect, this statement was shown to be nothing more than a fabrication last year. There never were 20,000 privately-owned tigers in American backyards, it was all a fabrication...
Unpopular Opinion. Game Ranches / Hunting Ranches have contributed to the conservation of many species as a whole. While the Tigers in Texas is a bit of an Urban Legend, Blackbuck, Scimitar Horned Oryx, Addax....are more common in Texas than in some of their home ranges and some of those Texas animals have contributed (if I'm not totally wrong here) to the reintroduction of the species (Oryx and Addax I believe) into their native ranges. Those "exotic" herds in Texas do support a hunting industry...yes...but they also support the global conservation of those species. Anti-hunting (sustainable hunting that does not threaten the existence of the species) is a moral stance (and I'm not a hunter) and ranch hunting does strike me as a little less than "fair chase"; that said...sustainable hunting (especially for profit) requires sustainable populations (comprised of healthy animals) and that is a net positive.
Once those ranches in Texas are subdivided to provide housing and businesses to support the ever growing human population...the anti-hunters will have their victory...the animals will just be gone as well. Second unpopular opinion...I believe free range exotics (Axis, Sika, Fallow, Blackbuck, Aoudad, Nilgai, etc...) should be managed as wildlife with the intent of preserving those populations (alongside the native animals, which generally have broader ranges anyway). Along with the exotics still largely confined to private ownership, those populations may become very important to the conservation of those species in the future.
I would imagine that the AZA has many behind the scenes, informal contacts with those ranches...even if only through non-AZA partner zoos...and hopefully those ranches will have species available to replenish the AZA collections whenever we are fortunate enough to encounter a zoo director committed to the keeping and display of exotic hoof-stock...(where permitted to import across state lines). I don't work in zoo industry so I'm just making baseless assumptions regarding the relationship between private holders, non-AZA, and AZA institutions.
Once those ranches in Texas are subdivided to provide housing and businesses to support the ever growing human population...the anti-hunters will have their victory...the animals will just be gone as well. Second unpopular opinion...I believe free range exotics (Axis, Sika, Fallow, Blackbuck, Aoudad, Nilgai, etc...) should be managed as wildlife with the intent of preserving those populations (alongside the native animals, which generally have broader ranges anyway). Along with the exotics still largely confined to private ownership, those populations may become very important to the conservation of those species in the future.
I would imagine that the AZA has many behind the scenes, informal contacts with those ranches...even if only through non-AZA partner zoos...and hopefully those ranches will have species available to replenish the AZA collections whenever we are fortunate enough to encounter a zoo director committed to the keeping and display of exotic hoof-stock...(where permitted to import across state lines). I don't work in zoo industry so I'm just making baseless assumptions regarding the relationship between private holders, non-AZA, and AZA institutions.