Subspecies held in the USA, for ZTL

[Coelacanth18]

With nearly a year passed, we unfortunately still have several issues with subspecies for US holdings on ZTL... discussion sort of died out at the time, but maybe it's been long enough that people have more enthusiasm to engage with these questions again

Going through every single species one by one seems too exhaustive, so I'll just bring up ones where I've noticed inconsistencies or questionable listings - and if anyone else has others to contribute, feel free to do so! I'll start with some mammals.

Western Grey Kangaroo: there are only two subspecies and one is restricted to one small offshore island. All or virtually all of Europe's animals are listed as M. f. melanops, is it safe to assume the US entries could be listed as that rather than species-level?

Bearded Saki: There are 3 zoos listed under Chiropotes chiropotes (one of which is noted as being signed as C. satanas) while a fourth zoo is listed under C. satanas (and noted as likely misidentified C. chiropotes). It is likely the whole US population is one or the other, does anyone know which is correct?

Geoffroy's Spider Monkey: Several zoos listed under A. g. geoffroyi. I was told that the AZA manages a population of pure A. g. geoffroyi; is this correct and the basis for these entries, or is it mostly just incorrect signage or assumptions made by the person entering?

Night Monkeys: At least a couple of zoos with Aotus still haven't been listed due to species confusion. Is it time for a genus-level option, or should a "best guess" be made for these?

Angolan Colobus: I see that all of ours are listed under the Tanzanian subspecies, and that there is no species-level option. Are they actually known to be this subspecies?

 

[Great Argus]

Geoffroy's Spider Monkey: Several zoos listed under A. g. geoffroyi. I was told that the AZA manages a population of pure A. g. geoffroyi; is this correct and the basis for these entries, or is it mostly just incorrect signage or assumptions made by the person entering?

It is correct, there is a large population of A. g. geoffroyi about and they are more numerous and widespread than vellerosus. Both continue to see steady increase from confiscated animals at the southern border.

Angolan Colobus: I see that all of ours are listed under the Tanzanian subspecies, and that there is no species-level option. Are they actually known to be this subspecies?

Yes - studbook has all original wild founders as arriving from Tanzania.

 

[Great Argus]

Some further comments re spider monkeys on having mused through ZTL and AZA docs more.

Most subspecies listings on ZTL appear accurate, although many of the non-ssp listings are known subspecies just not necessarily signed/easily identified. The AZA is identifying to subspecies given the large amount of animals present and continuing to be placed in the AZA. However signage often probably isn't specific on what is held and identification may be problematic without data in hand.

A number of facilities have both geoffroyi and vellerosus - it's not necessarily an either/or situation, assumptions of one is x and means all are x not valid.

There are multiple hybrids out there as well, mostly older animals but something to be aware of. I'd be particularly cautious in putting ssp to non-AZA.

 

[Coelacanth18]

Thanks @Great Argus. No further comments from that, so I'll keep trucking on I guess.

Cape/Crested Porcupine (Hystrix): this one has been discussed before; most or nearly all in AZA should be Cape (H. africaeaustralis) while non-AZA is a black box. Other than individually going through visual IDs for a bunch of zoos, probably not possible to truly sort them out. There are still a handful of AZA (or recently so) zoos that are listed for cristata, not sure which ones are correct rather than misidentified:

Alexandria
Caldwell
Columbus
Ellen Trout
Lowry Park
Oregon
Phoenix
Pueblo

St. Vincent Agouti (Dasyprocta leporina albida): three zoos are listed under this subspecies, for an animal that is managed as one population in North America. Is there any validity to this ID?

Chinchilla (Chinchilla lanigera): this is a case where there are two options to enter - as domestic or not domestic - and people have entered under both. I'm not exactly sure what the distinction is meant to be in ZTL, so no idea if US entries are accurate or not.

Wildlife World Zoo rodents: Lots of unusual rodent species were entered under this zoo based solely on USDA reports. I suspect some of them might be misidentifications, but some are also confirmed to be true so not sure how they can be parsed out.

Plains Zebra subspecies: An instance where a bunch of zoos got listed en masse by how they catalog their zebras. Many do so by subspecies (Grant's, Burchell's, Chapman's, etc) but my understanding is that most (if not all) of these are probably a hybrid mix at this point?

 

[Great Argus]

There are still a handful of AZA (or recently so) zoos that are listed for cristata, not sure which ones are correct rather than misidentified:

Alexandria
Caldwell
Columbus
Ellen Trout
Lowry Park
Oregon
Phoenix
Pueblo

All incorrectly listed. There are five AZA that should still have cristata, but they're all entered for africaeaustralis.

Wildlife World Zoo rodents: Lots of unusual rodent species were entered under this zoo based solely on USDA reports. I suspect some of them might be misidentifications, but some are also confirmed to be true so not sure how they can be parsed out.

Yeah it's a tough one there - many go through quickly and it's hard to get any further information.

Plains Zebra subspecies: An instance where a bunch of zoos got listed en masse by how they catalog their zebras. Many do so by subspecies (Grant's, Burchell's, Chapman's, etc) but my understanding is that most (if not all) of these are probably a hybrid mix at this point?

They are all hybrids, the AZA does not manage Plains Zebra to subspecies. Many of the animals show characteristics towards one subspecies, but there aren't any pure left afaik.

 

[tigris115]

I noticed only 3 US entries for Indian elephants even though many more zoos have Asian elephants that I know can be traced to mainland Asia

I think this is something that should be brought up. Most of the ztl listings are still not quite accurate for them

 

[Great Argus]

Most of the ztl listings are still not quite accurate for them

I mean this is a true statement for much of ZTL - there are numerous species that are not at all accurate still, especially where subspecies are involved. There is a lot more assumption than research going in to many listings.

 

[Pepe]

With nearly a year passed, we unfortunately still have several issues with subspecies for US holdings on ZTL... discussion sort of died out at the time, but maybe it's been long enough that people have more enthusiasm to engage with these questions again

Bearded Saki: There are 3 zoos listed under Chiropotes chiropotes (one of which is noted as being signed as C. satanas) while a fourth zoo is listed under C. satanas (and noted as likely misidentified C. chiropotes). It is likely the whole US population is one or the other, does anyone know which is correct?

To my knowledge these are all Chiropotes sagulatus , original imports from (British) Guyana.

 

[Coelacanth18]

To my knowledge these are all Chiropotes sagulatus , original imports from (British) Guyana.

Ah, so the same as the European animals then. Did one continent get its animals from the other, or did they both just get animals from the same import location?

Also, moving on to some carnivores:

Lions: this one is a mess to work out. AZA entries are currently split between generic lion and P. l. krugeri, the South African subspecies that AZA (ostensibly) manages. There are a dozen zoos listed under both, and of those only one seems to have been done that way intentionally; in the other 11 cases it looks like two people entered lions differently for the same zoo. Some complicating factors here:
- many zoos are listed under krugeri with a note saying "part of lion SSP"; however, there may still be some older non-breeding lions in the SSP that are generic;
- I have been told that at least a few breeding lions in the SSP are not actually krugeri but are instead of a different African origin;
- the krugeri ID seems to come from the fact that most recent imports have been from South African facilities, but are these lions actually the local subspecies?
- and finally, does the AZA itself actually consider and refer to their animals as krugeri, or did this ID originate from someone here?

Tigers: there are a handful of zoos outside the AZA listed for Amur tiger; are any of these legitimate or just zoos incorrectly advertising their animals as Amur?

African Wildcat: Omaha is listed under two taxa - African wildcat (Felis silvestris lybica / Felis lybica) and Palestine wildcat (Felis lybica tristrami). Does anyone have clarity on either the animals' origins or the taxonomy going on here?

Rusty-spotted Cat: The Carson Springs facility in Florida is listed as having Sri Lankan Rusty-spotted Cat; however, I just realized that there is no species-level option for Rusty-spotted Cat, so is this subspecies ID correct?

Eurasian Lynx subspecies: I find it doubtful that any claims of Eurasian Lynx in US captive collections being pure subspecies are true, but I'd like to hear if anyone has different information first.

Binturong: That Sustainable Safari place in Minnesota is listed as having nominate subspecies; I'm guessing this is based on signage, is there any visual ID or other confirmation? Also, are all the listings for the Palawan and Javan subspecies correct?

 

[ThylacineAlive]

In the past, some zoos listed their Western Grey Kangaroos are melanops. It is worth considering that the Kangaroo Island subspecies is actually the default in Australian zoos for this species. Gladys Porter did have the nominate subspecies in the relatively recent past. I'm not sure honestly whether these integrated with the larger population or if the founders represented both subspecies. Most (all?) zoos nowadays seem to list them to species level only.

Omaha holds Palestine Wildcat, which I think is lumped with nominate by IUCN taxonomy.

The San Diegos haven't held Javan Binturong for many years now iirc. I know they still list their animals as such, but if you trace their origins they come from a private breeder in Texas who breeds animals for zoos and the private trade. Their last true Javan went to a zoo in I think Tennessee (I forget which unfortunately) where it died roughly a half decade ago now. I believe all of the Palawan listings are correct as they stem from Nashville's breeding group. The only exception is Harpursville whose animal(s) is(are) not related to the Nashville stock. I asked a keeper there once and he told me their animals came from the private trade so I somewhat doubt they are actually Palawan though that is what the zoo claims.

To my knowledge these are all Chiropotes sagulatus , original imports from (British) Guyana.

This is correct for both the US and European populations.

~Thylo

 

[Great Argus]

- many zoos are listed under krugeri with a note saying "part of lion SSP"; however, there may still be some older non-breeding lions in the SSP that are generic

This is correct, there are some "generic" about still. Includes Toronto, Utica, and Cape May for example.

- I have been told that at least a few breeding lions in the SSP are not actually krugeri but are instead of a different African origin

However, depending on how you want to look at it, there are more generics than implied. There was the import of the Sudanese male and his offspring, who along with their subsequent offspring have been continuing to be placed in breeding situations. Even under the 2 subspecies view, this would still make all offspring hybrids to a minor extent. I have traced Ugandan imported lions to nearly 2000, however it seems that line is gone from the AZA aside from possibly Busch Gardens Tampa.

- the krugeri ID seems to come from the fact that most recent imports have been from South African facilities, but are these lions actually the local subspecies?
- and finally, does the AZA itself actually consider and refer to their animals as krugeri, or did this ID originate from someone here?

All but the above mentioned import have been from South Africa, some of which came from the wild and would be krugeri. The Lion SSP however does not make any comments as to subspecies, only using pedigreed and generic.

Tigers: there are a handful of zoos outside the AZA listed for Amur tiger; are any of these legitimate or just zoos incorrectly advertising their animals as Amur?

Personally I'd question purity for any non-AZA with no known connection to the AZA.

Binturong: That Sustainable Safari place in Minnesota is listed as having nominate subspecies; I'm guessing this is based on signage, is there any visual ID or other confirmation? Also, are all the listings for the Palawan and Javan subspecies correct?

DWA should no longer have Palawan. ThylacineAlive's comments are accurate re Javan. However it's a tad moot as for genetic diversity's sake the SSP ok'd crossbreeding generic and Palawan with several such pairs having been set up for a while now.

 

[Coelacanth18]

Thanks for the information @ThylacineAlive and @Great Argus.

It sounds to me like - for accuracy's sake - really *all* Lions in the US should be listed as generic, without a source showing that at least one or more individuals at that zoo are wild-caught with a known origin (or descendants of only animals like that). I'm not sure if AZA uses the term "pedigreed" as a term for known lineage or a placeholder for unresolved taxonomy, but it seems clear that assuming breeding animals are krugeri is not an accurate assumption.

That would be a sizable pivot from the status quo, so I'll leave some time for people to plug their opinions in on that before I make any formal requests to change that though.

 

[Great Argus]

It sounds to me like - for accuracy's sake - really *all* Lions in the US should be listed as generic, without a source showing that at least one or more individuals at that zoo are wild-caught with a known origin (or descendants of only animals like that). I'm not sure if AZA uses the term "pedigreed" as a term for known lineage or a placeholder for unresolved taxonomy, but it seems clear that assuming breeding animals are krugeri is not an accurate assumption.

Remembered this monkey wrench in the studbook that should largely answer that:


Thus it is not unreasonable to assume that any pedigreed lion could originate from founders anywhere between Uganda and South Africa, although the studbook indicates basically all of the recent founder base arrived from South Africa. However as you point out it's not inherently clear whether the animals were sourced from in all cases. Furthermore there's the second monkey wrench with the Sudan origin animals that are P. l. leo genetics now being widely integrated into the melanochaita/krugeri/whatever it is. The animals could be separated out via a lot of studbook digging, but I for one am not going to that effort when somebody can overwrite it five minutes later.

 

[Chlidonias]

According to this 2024-2029 management plan, the AZA only recognise two lion subspecies - leo (north, west, central Africa, and India) and melanochaita (east and south Africa).

https://assets.speakcdn.com/assets/2332/sf2024-2029aflfpp.pdf

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Given what the studbook has to say, I do think it's fair to list the AZA breeding population as krugeri (following ZTL taxonomy), with the exception of the one Sudanese male (nubica following ZTL taxonomy) and his offspring (generic/non-subspecies), given that this one male is the only Lion the studbook identifies as being from East African origin.

The AZA seems to have a misunderstanding in the two subspecies taxonomy, as while Sudan is in eastern Africa, it is west of what has been defined as the boundary between melanochaita and leo--at least in the range maps I've seen.

EDIT: For that it's worth, in the old I S I S (pre-ZIMS) days, AZA zoos (or at least, every AZA zoo I looked at the listings for) listed their Lions as P. l. krugeri.

~Thylo

 

[Coelacanth18]

Given what the studbook has to say, I do think it's fair to list the AZA breeding population as krugeri (following ZTL taxonomy), with the exception of the one Sudanese male (nubica following ZTL taxonomy) and his offspring (generic/non-subspecies), given that this one male is the only Lion the studbook identifies as being from East African origin.

So for clarity, would this mean default listing AZA breeding or younger animals as krugeri; identify the handful that are subspecific hybrids; and otherwise list as generic?

My goal here is to 1) resolve incorrect or duplicate entries, and 2) provide people with information about how to list things going forward. I understand that sometimes - and for some species - ideally a bit of research should be done for listing, but some of
this information can be confusing or hard to access (like studbook info) and I don't want people to enter things incorrectly *or* put off entering animals indefinitely due to lack of information or clarity.

 

[Great Argus]

So for clarity, would this mean default listing AZA breeding or younger animals as krugeri; identify the handful that are subspecific hybrids; and otherwise list as generic?

Not an appropriate default unfortunately - animals with Sudanese blood are in multiple breeding situations currently. I will double check when I have more time with the updated SSP, but that line per what I recall was at Detroit (now Blank Park i think but there may still be connection), Denver, Wildlife Safari, Audubon, North Carolina, and at least one or two others.

 

[Wisp O' Mist]

The AZA seems to have a misunderstanding in the two subspecies taxonomy, as while Sudan is in eastern Africa, it is west of what has been defined as the boundary between melanochaita and leo--at least in the range maps I've seen.

Maybe somebody should tell them that, then?

 

[Coelacanth18]

Not an appropriate default unfortunately - animals with Sudanese blood are in multiple breeding situations currently. I will double check when I have more time with the updated SSP, but that line per what I recall was at Detroit (now Blank Park i think but there may still be connection), Denver, Wildlife Safari, Audubon, North Carolina, and at least one or two others.

Sorry, I had the order wrong! What I meant was: identify the zoos that have offspring from the Sudanese male and designate them as generic; designate other AZA zoos that have younger or breeding animals as krugeri; and then designate all others as generic.

Over time that is going to get a little harder to follow though, if those mixed-subspecies descendants continue to breed and be sent throughout the country.

 

[Great Argus]

Sorry, I had the order wrong! What I meant was: identify the zoos that have offspring from the Sudanese male and designate them as generic; designate other AZA zoos that have younger or breeding animals as krugeri; and then designate all others as generic.

Ah that makes more sense. I have no objection to doing that rummaging and posting here for clarity, I'm just not interested in doing the actual edits.