North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation

The Horse Boy said:
We must not forget Tsavo! I anticipate he will be a good contributor to breeding and producing offspring starting at Reid Park given his species appropriate upbringing and that fact that he is extremely valuable on his deceased mother's Moyo's side. On the whole, I'd say the amount of African bulls with the level of bandwidth similar to Jackson Mabu and now Callee needless to say, in Anerica are slowly starting to rise, then in the next few years the country will be bountiful of them unlike now. Patience is the key for success!
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I was referring to cows that can breed Mabu, Ali, Jack and Sdudla daughters (minus Jabali as mentioned). Tsavo should also do just fine though I agree, he and Jabali grew up in ideal conditions.
 
The Horse Boy said:
The problem with Samson is that, if i'm correct, he did not witness any proper breeding during his youth, which is the biggest minus with many captive born elephants born via AI if the facility doesn't. And that is a factor to heavily consider about Maryland as i'm unsure Tuffy was ever successful with their two cows.
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I agree, I'm not super optimistic about Samson and Tamani. I don't believe either of them ever witnessed natural breeding and that is a likely crucial factor. Same goes for Kedar in Indy.
 
John Marchwick said:
Also regarding Titan, I personally would not rule him out yet in terms of breeding potential there.
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Titan would certainly be a deft natural breeder, wether young viable cows come to ATL (which they have no current plans for orchestrating re. Msholo and the two older cow's presence), or he eventually moves to an active breeding facility. He is a very valuable wild caught individual, has seen countless breeding behaviors from Callee, had the appropiate bull mentorship and has donated sperms to either 1 2 pregnant cows via ai.
 
HawkAlot said:
As far as I've heard, Samson has witnessed lots and lots of natural breeding at Maryland. It's just that said occurrences have never resulted in anything.
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I do remember hearing a podcast that focused on the breeding of African Elephants at the Maryland zoo, they stated that Tuffy was mounting Felix, and if breeding naturally didnt work out, they would have done AI with Felix. A shame that nothing came from those plans.

Another bull who seemed to know what he was doing is Artie, there photo of him mounting Tonga, but whether this was an actual mating or just play behavior, I can't tell.

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Artie and Tonga, Riddle's Elephant Sanctuary, 11/2004 Courtesy of D Ballard
 
The Horse Boy said:
Titan would certainly be a deft natural breeder, wether young viable cows come to ATL (which they have no current plans for orchestrating re. Msholo and the two older cow's presence), or he eventually moves to an active breeding facility. He is a very valuable wild caught individual, has seen countless breeding behaviors from Callee, had the appropiate bull mentorship and has donated sperms to either 1 2 pregnant cows via ai.
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It is impossible to know what Titian did or did not witness before his import, but it is a decent assumption that he interacted with a bull at some point. Did Titian share space with Callee while with the cows? I can't remember off the top of my head.
I have pretty high confidence in him as well all around though. He's pretty young and has years before he'll be at an optimal age to breed.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
It is impossible to know what Titian did or did not witness before his import, but it is a decent assumption that he interacted with a bull at some point. Did Titian share space with Callee while with the cows? I can't remember off the top of my head.
I have pretty high confidence in him as well all around though. He's pretty young and has years before he'll be at an optimal age to breed.
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There is an Instagram reel of Callee and Titan sparring i saw earlier last year.
Sedgwick County Zoo on Instagram: "Exciting News! This week, we gave Callee and Titan, our elephant bulls, access to the same yard in order to give them both the opportunity to build a positive social relationship with one another. This will be an especially important relationship for Titan, since young bulls greatly benefit from having an older male to learn from. Since Callee's arrival, we've cautiously allowed the two to become acquainted through the fence line, in order to ensure their safety. After closely monitoring their behavior for some time, our dedicated elephant team decided it was time to introduce the two without a physical barrier. From their initial "howdy" greetings to playful interactions, Callee and Titan have shown nothing but positive and playful behavior. We are incredibly grateful for Callee's patience, allowing Titan to approach him at his own pace. Their bond is growing stronger each day, and we can't wait to see how their relationship grows! #SedgwickCountyZoo #AnimalUpdates #AfricanElephants #Update"
 
The Horse Boy said:
There is an Instagram reel of Callee and Titan sparring i saw earlier last year.
Sedgwick County Zoo on Instagram: "Exciting News! This week, we gave Callee and Titan, our elephant bulls, access to the same yard in order to give them both the opportunity to build a positive social relationship with one another. This will be an especially important relationship for Titan, since young bulls greatly benefit from having an older male to learn from. Since Callee's arrival, we've cautiously allowed the two to become acquainted through the fence line, in order to ensure their safety. After closely monitoring their behavior for some time, our dedicated elephant team decided it was time to introduce the two without a physical barrier. From their initial "howdy" greetings to playful interactions, Callee and Titan have shown nothing but positive and playful behavior. We are incredibly grateful for Callee's patience, allowing Titan to approach him at his own pace. Their bond is growing stronger each day, and we can't wait to see how their relationship grows! #SedgwickCountyZoo #AnimalUpdates #AfricanElephants #Update"
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I'm aware that they shared space, but did they do so with the cows in there with them? That would be primarily how Titian would learn those breeding skills.
 
IMG_0024.jpeg I looked in my 2007 emails about Riddles. Willie was apparently the only fertile one hence the sire of both calves. I was told that Artie is sterile hence his eventual move to TES (possibly one of the reasons anyway).

here is the picture of Willie and Tuffy at Riddles. They kept a couple bulls together in certain enclosures. I even have pics of Hank and all of the other elephants.

Tuffy is the one with no tusks.
 

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ZCChip said:
New Hank at Riddles. You can see how obese he was before moving to Columbus. He looked better at Columbus.
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I have noticed lately that many modern zoo elephants are about as fit as their wild counterparts with of course all the enrichment programs and all the top notch nutritional and veterinary care they recieve. So this would indeed be applicable to Hank when he lived in Columbus. It's so aggravating to hear ARA's falsify that many elephants and other zoo animals get more obese in stark contrast the wild due to lack of movement and freedom.
 
The Horse Boy said:
I have noticed lately that many modern zoo elephants are about just as fit as their wild counterparts with of course all the enrichment programs and all the top notch nutritional and veterinary care they recieve. So this would indeed be applicable to Hank when he lived in Columbus. It's so aggravating to hear ARA's falsify that many elephants and other zoo animals get more obese in stark contrast the wild due to lack of movement and freedom.
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well he had more space at Columbus than at riddles.

at riddles he had his own barn and little outside area and he came and went through a chute. You can see it in this picture. Pretty sure he was the only elephant with full protected contact. The African bulls had some hands on contact. (May not be all but definitely some).
 

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I finally found the episode where Sdudla met the cows that I was talking about earlier in this thread. I found it on YouTube.

Enjoy.

Note the bull enclosure and the stalls in the barn. It seems all elephants share the same barn but the bull stays in the bull pen when the cows are out except during breeding. I think he bred the cow in the corner when the cow realized she couldn’t go anywhere else.
 
ZCChip said:
Note the bull enclosure and the stalls in the barn. It seems all elephants share the same barn but the bull stays in the bull pen when the cows are out except during breeding. I think he bred the cow in the corner when the cow realized she couldn’t go anywhere else.
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I know Sdudla can utilize the larger cow herd yard based on the pics and vids I've seen, but I thought the smaller outdoor enclosure on the other side of the tram path isn't a specifically designed bull yard that cows and calves can't hang. It seems that most newer elephant enclosures and barns in US zoos don't have designated outdoor bull yards and cow or herd yards, and specifically allocated bull or cow stalls in the barns, and in my book it should be that way to promote flexibility in case certain individuals don't get along and reinforce more choice for the individuals. For an enigmatic reason, Europe on the other hand seems to build different outdoor enclosures and barn areas for individual bulls and cow herds to spend most of their time in. It seems the whole facility at Tampa is bull proof even with their thick wooden stakes for the stock post/cable system.
 
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The Horse Boy said:
I know Sdudla can utilize the larger cow herd yard based on the pics and vids I've seen, but I thought the smaller outdoor enclosure on the other side of the tram path isn't a specifically designed bull yard that cows and calves can't hang. It seems that most newer elephant enclosures and barns in US zoos don't have designated outdoor bull yards and cow or herd yards, and specifically allocated bull or cow stalls in the barns, and in my book it should be that way to promote flexibility in case certain individuals don't get along and reinforce more choice for the individuals. It seems the whole facility at Tampa is bull proof even with their thick wooden stakes for the stock post/cable system.
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it may be a place where he can stay in while he’s in musth. Who knows? I think it’s a nice facility but I can see why they are in need to swap bulls (Sdudla has two daughters) due to limited space.

several places have their own bull spaces or even bull barns. It seems at Tampa the bull and cows share the same barn but have different connected outdoor enclosures. I never been to that zoo so I am not the person to inquire further about it. It seems to work very well for them. I could see whey they put Sdudla in that little pen when he’s in musth and not with the cows. There was a barrier and when they went inside to work with a cow, the barrier probably wouldn’t be ideal with a bull in musth because he could reach out and grab someone through the bars. There was only chains on the bottom. Not enough protection.
 
ZCChip said:
it may be a place where he can stay in while he’s in musth. Who knows? I think it’s a nice facility but I can see why they are in need to swap bulls (Sdudla has two daughters) due to limited space.

several places have their own bull spaces or even bull barns. It seems at Tampa the bull and cows share the same barn but have different connected outdoor enclosures.
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That's in a very similar vein to Dallas as their adult bull mainly uses the relatively minute undango habitat for his solitude musth and when not interacting with their calf and the Cows, but i don't thibk the Tembo Udango is built as a dedicated bull pen. But it makes sense why individual males could use it like clockwork more than the cow and calf herds as it's waaaaay smaller than the large south habitat. I have seen pics and vids of Tendaji using the more colossal south yard with the cows and calf too.
 
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ZCChip said:
it may be a place where he can stay in while he’s in musth. Who knows? I think it’s a nice facility but I can see why they are in need to swap bulls (Sdudla has two daughters) due to limited space.

several places have their own bull spaces or even bull barns. It seems at Tampa the bull and cows share the same barn but have different connected outdoor enclosures. I never been to that zoo so I am not the person to inquire further about it. It seems to work very well for them. I could see whey they put Sdudla in that little pen when he’s in musth and not with the cows. There was a barrier and when they went inside to work with a cow, the barrier probably wouldn’t be ideal with a bull in musth because he could reach out and grab someone through the bars. There was only chains on the bottom. Not enough protection.
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Both yards are accessible to Sdudla depending on what staff feel is a good fit for the day and same goes for the girls. Sdudla is worked the same way in and out of musth as he’s a very docile male. They target his trunk with their hand and ask for behaviors from there. Same is done with the girls. It’s a standard protocol across all of their herd which is almost completely unique to them and maybe 2 or 3 other facilities.
 
E Maximus said:
Both yards are accessible to Sdudla depending on what staff feel is a good fit for the day and same goes for the girls. Sdudla is worked the same way in and out of musth as he’s a very docile male. They target his trunk with their hand and ask for behaviors from there. Same is done with the girls. It’s a standard protocol across all of their herd which is almost completely unique to them and maybe 2 or 3 other facilities.
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yeah. I noticed that too. The keeper kept the cow’s trunk in her hand while she asked for the side. Really interesting. They must like to be tactile with the elephants there. Which is great.
 
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