HEAD-TO-HEAD PROTOTYPE: Chester vs Prague (MISCELLANEOUS MAMMALS)

[TeaLovingDave]

As the title suggests, this one will focus on the MISCELLANEOUS MAMMALS category - as previously, the match will last for three days and although discussion of your reasoning and provision of supplementary evidence is not mandatory (except in cases of a 5:0 vote) it *is* very much encouraged.

Moreover, even if one does not feel comfortable voting, please do ask questions, post comments relating to your opinions on the evidence presented, and generally-speaking get involved in the wider discussion!

 

[TeaLovingDave]

This is a fairly close one I reckon, and I think the key aspect which swings it towards a Chester win is the fact that (much as Prague boasted the best ectotherm exhibit in Europe in the last match) Chester can boast the best exhibit in Europe within the "Miscellaneous Mammals" category thanks to the exceptionally good Fruit Bat Forest exhibit.

 

[EliasNys]

This is a fairly close one I reckon, and I think the key aspect which swings it towards a Chester win is the fact that (much as Prague boasted the best ectotherm exhibit in Europe in the last match) Chester can boast the best exhibit in Europe within the "Miscellaneous Mammals" category thanks to the exceptionally good Fruit Bat Forest exhibit.

Even though the fruit bat forest is excellent I still voted for Prague:

• They have an excellent, if not the best, marsupial collection, and it is fair to say that some species, such as Brown Dorcopsis would not be around without Prague. Other species such as New Guinea ground cuscus are also for a large part carried by Prague breeding.
• They are for a large part responsible for the revival of echidnas in European and even American zoos.
• The habitats for these species, except maybe the nocturnal ones, are truly excellent. Especially the kangooroo paddocks and the Devil enclosures.
• They keep lots of more unusual animal orders, tenrecs, shrews, pangolins, elephant shrews, treeshrews etc.
• Pangolins and their immense breeding succes of course
• Their rodent collection is too extensive to list, but they keep soo many Porcupines, mice hamsters etc. They also keep the stud book of the cloud rat species. Many rodent species they keep would possibly not even be around with Prague! But I am not really a rodent lover so don't quote me on this
• Aardvarks and anteaters are nice
• 2 hyrax species, one is very rare
• Also has bats

So while Chester has some nice offerings, Prague obliterates any collection in this category.. I might even go 4-1, but will wait till someone gives a more detailed description of Chester's offerings.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

They are for a large part responsible for the revival of echidnas in European and even American zoos.

They have very little responsibility for this whatsoever although they have successfully bred the species twice in the last five years, several of the other European collections keeping the species beat them to it and in some cases have bred them more regularly. I suspect that your confusion arises from the fact that (alongside Todd Dalton, formerly of RSCC) one of the main routes by which wildcaught echidna entered European collections in the 2000s and 2010s was via an animal dealer based near to Prague who ran the now-closed Terárium Dubeč.

They keep lots of more unusual animal orders, tenrecs, shrews, pangolins, elephant shrews, treeshrews etc.

Aardvarks and anteaters are nice

2 hyrax species, one is very rare

Also has bats

All points which (to a greater or lesser extent) also apply to Chester.

It is also worth noting that many of the on-show rodent species at Prague are held in abysmal-to-poor quality exhibits, some being little better than tiny glass cabinets embedded in the wall.

 

[merlin]

Maybe I should later write down the story behind echidnas in Czechia (and other European countries) and how they were all wildcaught and came from a black market in Jakarta and that many of them have died during the process... I really am not sure if it was worth it, since now there are very questionable institutions with them and since the echidnas in Prague have not been doing so well lately. Weird circumstances surrounding their deaths, etc.
Also about the zoochosis in at least one of the pangolins and that Prague does not actually know what species of dorcopsis they have and there were speculations about them being hybrids. I also want to mention the bats currently live in a very small exhibit in Dja (how I miss the "free roaming" Egyptian fruit bats in Indonesian jungle!). Anyways, see me later

 

[EliasNys]

They have very little responsibility for this whatsoever although they have successfully bred the species twice in the last five years, several of the other European collections keeping the species beat them to it and in some cases have bred them more regularly. I suspect that your confusion arises from the fact that (alongside Todd Dalton, formerly of RSCC) one of the main routes by which wildcaught echidna entered European collections in the 2000s and 2010s was via an animal dealer based near to Prague who ran the now-closed Terárium Dubeč.









All points which (to a greater or lesser extent) also apply to Chester.

It is also worth noting that many of the on-show rodent species at Prague are held in abysmal-to-poor quality exhibits, some being little better than tiny glass cabinets embedded in the wall.

I must say I did not know about those echidnas! Sometimes it is hard to trace animals using ZTL.

But i must say you are wrong about most of the rodents being in abysmal exhibits. Only the few exhibits ( i think something like 5 in total) at the very beginning of the Africa Up Close pavilion are really poor. The capybara, Porcupines, cloud rats etc. all have decent to nice exhibits.

 

[PossumRoach]

They have very little responsibility for this whatsoever although they have successfully bred the species twice in the last five years, several of the other European collections keeping the species beat them to it and in some cases have bred them more regularly. I suspect that your confusion arises from the fact that (alongside Todd Dalton, formerly of RSCC) one of the main routes by which wildcaught echidna entered European collections in the 2000s and 2010s was via an animal dealer based near to Prague who ran the now-closed Terárium Dubeč.

Not to mention Prague Zoo unfortunately has a hard time trying to successfully raising puggles to adulthood.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Other species such as New Guinea ground cuscus are also for a large part carried by Prague breeding.

As a matter of fact, the main collection keeping the species going in European collections is Blackpool, which has been breeding the species regularly for over 40 years and which (alongside Frankfurt, which imported wildcaught stock at roughly the same time as Blackpool and also bred them regularly until ceasing to keep the species) is pretty much the ultimate progenitor of all animals now held in Europe.

Someone has removed the species on ZTL, but it appears to be a "I didn't see them so they must be gone" situation.

But i must say you are wrong about most of the rodents being in abysmal exhibits. Only the few exhibits ( i think something like 5 in total) at the very beginning of the Africa Up Close pavilion are really poor.

In fact, I said "many" and not "most" - there is a difference! something that should be pointed out given the fact that it looks like your misrepresentation of my claims led to @Kalaw changing his vote to 4-1 after he read and liked your post!

Also, considering the fact that in the last round, the excellent Giant Salamander exhibit seemingly (as no one actually bothered to respond to my detailed rundown of the strengths of Chester where conservation, breeding results and exhibit quality are concerned, I can't say for sure) swung matters for Prague in the eyes of most voters, I think it would be somewhat hypocritical and unfair if the excellent Fruit Bat Forest exhibit at Chester was dismissed with "Prague also has bats"

As I'm currently on a Eurostar train to the continent and will be travelling for the next week or so, hopefully someone else will provide a full photographic rundown of what Chester has to offer in this regard - but I'll try to post a summary tonight or tomorrow morning.

 

[Kalaw]

I've been torn between 4-1 and 3-2 Prague here, but I think that for the time being it would be unfair for me to go for anything more than 3-2 as I haven't seen 'Fruit Bat Forest' in person. I love the concept of that exhibit, and remain open to the possibility that if I ever do get to see it, I may take to Chester, both in this category and as a whole, more kindly.

I'm leaning so heavily towards Prague because this is by far the most that I've enjoyed rodents anywhere. The reintroduced European Sousliks (technically now wild, but most often seen around the zoo's savannah) were so entertaining to scour the ground for as they occasionally popped up between the feet of antelope; seeing five species of porcupine in one day, including my first Palawans as well as North Americans in a repurposed (bear?) grotto was special; not many other places allow for a side-by-side comparison of Northern and Southern Luzon Giant Cloud Rats; all the rodent enclosures in Gobi are really nicely designed, and above all it was a pleasure to finally see mole-rats, of the more scarcely kept Mechow's species, with natural substrate (though, as I was pleased to find out, Chester now also does this in HoA). Those four grass and spiny mice in Africa Up Close, whose enclosures are indeed glorified museuem cabinets, are huge blemishes for Prague here, and I won't bother defending them. Though, as it is only 4 species (out of the 68 miscellaneous mammals listed on ZTL, some of them offshow), it doesn't bring down the average much. Also - correct me if I am being misleading, as I really don't remember them very well - aren't there similar rodent enclosures in Chester's Okapi House that are hardly any better?

Moving away from rodents, all of the several onshow macropod taxa have excellent enclosures, and something that has to be praised is the Tasmanian Devil enclosure, quite possibly the best in Europe. There is also a great enclosure for wombats, which have bred at the zoo, and echidnas, who also breed (though as mentioned earlier, sadly the zoo really hasn't had much, if any, luck in rearing them to adulthood). Being the first and to date only European zoo to breed pangolins is, in my opinion, worth a point on their own with how many zoos before them failed, and the fact that with Šiška's impending move to Vienna, where she'll be introduced to a new male from Asia, this breakthrough may help to finally establish a population of the species in Europe.

Like I say, I haven't seen FBF yet, and hope that soon I can remedy that because I absolutely love the concept of the enclosure; no matter what, it certainly exceeds Prague's current Straw-coloured accommodation in Dja (why did the zoo stop keeping bats in the tropical house; same reason as the birds, i.e. predation from the macaques?). My only memories of Chester in this category were the really good anteater enclosure (Prague's is good, but Chester's is better), the best sloth enclosure that I'd ever seen in the Jaguar House (though I've now seen Dresden's which I would argue surprasses or at least equals it) and the Okapi House. Prague has nearly triple the number of species, so many exciting and engaging displays, countless rarities and numerous really impressive breeding involvements, and a few world-class enclosures to boot. A comfortable win for me.

Also, considering the fact that in the last round, the excellent Giant Salamander exhibit seemingly (as no one actually bothered to respond to my detailed rundown of the strengths of Chester where conservation, breeding results and exhibit quality are concerned, I can't say for sure) swung matters for Prague in the eyes of most voters, I think it would be somewhat hypocritical and unfair if the excellent Fruit Bat Forest exhibit at Chester was dismissed with "Prague also has bats"

I don't think it's the same situation. In terms of numbers and overall quality, the ectotherm thread was just about a coin toss, whereas Prague has nearly thrice as many species as Chester here, and in terms of a single decisive factor, one could equally claim that breeding pangolins is as impressive as FBF. I did make a shorter post (not as detailed as your own) where I highlighted that Prague had a lot more than just the giant salamanders and could arguably have surpassed Chester even without that exhibit; I don't think the same can be said here and you'd be very hard-pressed to vote for Chester without the bats.But yes, FBF does look amazing (and is the reason I'm giving Chester two points), and it's wrong to ignore it just because Prague has bats of its own.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I've been torn between 4-1 and 3-2 Prague here, but I think that for the time being it would be unfair for me to go for anything more than 3-2 as I haven't seen 'Fruit Bat Forest' in person.

I've got the impression you ended up missing rather a lot of Chester due to closures one way or another - was the exhibit closed when you visited, or did you merely miss it accidentally?

 

[Kalaw]

I've got the impression you ended up missing rather a lot of Chester due to closures one way or another - was the exhibit closed when you visited, or did you merely miss it accidentally?

It was closed, the reason given being the pandemic, though I’m not sure why other indoor exhibits were allowed to remain open (fear that people were more likely to bump into each other, thus ignoring social distancing, in the dark?). It was December 2021, so nearly all other pandemic-related restrictions had been lifted by this point. The only other exhibits closed were the tropical houses and other walkthrough aviaries, with the reason in this case being avian influenza.

 

[merlin]

I'm going to provide Prague showcasing. Unfortunately, I could not find photos for some of the exhibits. It's especially hard to find pictures of the really small and bad enclosures, which is understandable, since not many people are interested in taking photos of uninteresting things...

Let's start with monotremes and marsupials. The Darwin's crater opened in 2020 and is home to several mammal species. The short-beaked echidnas inhabit an indoor-only exhibit which they share with long-nosed potoroos. The echidnas are very hard to spot. I saw one relatively active two or three years ago at 3 pm when it woke up to get some food. But that was it. There was an incident once when the male echidna has burried itself and the keepers had to dig him up, because the animal went "missing" for two weeks. Currently, there should be only two echidnas left at the zoo, as many of them have died already.

credits to @/lintworm

The Tasmanian wombat exhibit consists of two outdoor enclosures and at least two indoor ones, of which only one can be seen by visitors.

credits to @/lintworm

credits to the nice guy who uploaded the photo in the mapy.cz gallery

The best thing about the Darwin's crater is inarguably the Tasmanian devil exhibit. The visitors have access to one indoor enclosure and two outdoor ones. The outdoor enclosures are beautifully sculpted and planted. There are currently six Tasmanian devils, two old females, two younger females and two males. The zoo is not allowed to breed them yet.

credits to @/lintworm

credits to @/HOMIN96

The walkthrough at Darwin's crater holds red-necked wallabies and eastern grey kangaroos. Although the enclosure itself is not that bad, I don't personally like the walkthrough aspect of it, because the path is pretty short and thus it's not very interesting for me.

credits to @/vogelcommando

credits to HOMIN96

More kangaroo species can be seen in the upper part of the zoo. There are four species in total - red kangaroo, Parma wallaby, swamp wallaby and eastern wallaroo. Red kangaroos share the enclosure with Parma wallabies, swamp wallabies are by themselves. Same goes for eastern wallaroos.

credits to @/Kalaw

credits to @/vogelcommando

credits to @/vogelcommando (I know there's a maned wolf in the photo, but this is truly the current wallaroo exhibit)

The woylies are currently kept off-show.

The rare New Guinea ground cuscus can be seen in the nocturnal part of the Indonesian jungle house. The exhibit is not very big and I did not find any photos of it...

Let's move onto the Afrotheria suborder. The zoo has two hyrax species. A group of yellow-spotted rock hyraxes lives in the Africa up close pavilion together with... northern treeshrews, which is kind of bizzare. But it's fun to watch these two species interract.

credits to @/Robaque

A family of West African tree hyraxes lives in a nocturnal exhibit at the Méfou pavilion. The weird thing is that they have an access to the outside. Not to the actual exhibit which used to hold tamarins, but only to the passage connecting the indoor and outdoor enclosures. Which is weird. The passage is quite small and narrow but the hyraxes seem to prefer it over their actual home. The zoo aquired this species a few years ago from Ostrava, which is the main breeder of these, but also other hyraxes. I did not find any photos of the exhibit, only a picture showing the hyrax sitting in the passage...

credits to the nice guy who uploaded the photo in the mapy.cz gallery

Aardvarks live at the African house together with dikdiks. They are provided enough space, but unfortunately live on concrete...

credits to the nice guy who uploaded the photo in the mapy.cz gallery

credits to @/MagpieGoose

Black and rufous sengi are placed in a nicely planted exhibit in the Africa Up close pavilion. There are no current photos showing how it looks right now.

credits to @/vogelcommando

The round-eared elephant shrew exhibit is located at the same house. This one is not very interesting in my opinion.

credits to @/vogelcommando

The lesser hedgehog tenrec lives in a very small exhibit, again at the Africa Up close pavilion. I did not find any photos of it.

 

[Kalaw]

More kangaroo species can be seen in the upper part of the zoo. There are four species in total - red kangaroo, Parma wallaby, swamp wallaby and eastern wallaroo. Red kangaroos share the enclosure with Parma wallabies, swamp wallabies are by themselves. Same goes for eastern wallaroos.

Something I should add as I forgot to mention it in my previous post: the delightful views of the city centre in the backdrop of the Red Kangaroo enclosure, with the fence completely hidden behind the slope to enhance them. They would of course be even better if the zoo cut back the bushes towards the back a little more, but still nice as it is.

The lesser hedgehog tenrec lives in a very small exhibit, again at the Africa Up close pavilion. I did not find any photos of it.

Are they not mixed with the Moholi Bushbabies anymore? They definitely were last summer, and as far as tenrec enclosures go, that was an enormous space, probably the best tenrec enclosure I've ever seen.

 

[EliasNys]

Something I should add as I forgot to mention it in my previous post: the delightful views of the city centre in the backdrop of the Red Kangaroo enclosure, with the fence completely hidden behind the slope to enhance them. They would of course be even better if the zoo cut back the bushes towards the back a little more, but still nice as it is.
Are they not mixed with the Moholi Bushbabies anymore? They definitely were last summer, and as far as tenrec enclosures go, that was an enormous space, probably the best tenrec enclosure I've ever seen.

The great backdrop is also true for the north American Porcupines, see North American tree porcupine - ZooChat

The moholi bushbabies were mixed with Malagasy Giant Jumping rat on my visit this summer. I don't remember where the tenrecs were actually.

 

[merlin]

Are they not mixed with the Moholi Bushbabies anymore? They definitely were last summer, and as far as tenrec enclosures go, that was an enormous space, probably the best tenrec enclosure I've ever seen.

Nope, there's currently one occupying a very tiny exhibit unfortunately

Giant anteaters are occupying quite a standard exhibit in the lower part of the zoo. The outdoor exhibits are somehow okay, the indoor ones not so much. Though, there are no current photos of the outdoor enclosure, which received some changes after the arrival of capybaras. There are actually two enclosures, but the one in the back is not accessible to visitors.

credits to @/Chapman'szebra

credits to @/vogelcommando

I've already mentioned the northern treeshrews share space with hyraxes, but there is one more exhibit that has them. It can be find next to the exit in the Indonesian jungle pavilion. I did not find any photos of this enclosure.

Lesser Egyptian jerboas share the nocturnal exhibit with Goodman's mouse lemurs in the Africa Up Close pavilion. The second nocturnal exhibit in this house is inhabited by votsotsas and bushbabies.

credits to @/lintworm

Barbary striped grass mice are one of the poor small rodents living in the abysmal exhibits at the Africa Up Close house. The dusky Egyptian spiny mice, golden spiny mice, southern African spiny mice, Sub-Saharan pygmy mice and Turkish spiny mice are the other poor small rodents

credits to @/vogelcommando

credits to @/Maguari

I did not find any current photos of the gundi exhibit, which is now less various...

credits to @/vogelcommando

Mechow's mole rats are rarely kept in zoos. It can be tricky to actually see them. It's a standard exhibit with tubes, but those are hidden from the visitor's sight and so you can properly see the dens only. I did not find a photo of this exhibit.

Mongolian gerbils are kept in a fairly small exhibit at the new Gobi house. There are two more small exhibits for Roborovski dwarf hamster and steppe lemming. The fourth exhibit, which is the biggest one but still rather small, is inhabited by long-eared hedgehog.

credits to @/MagpieGoose

Gambian pouch rats are very smart and active animals, so it's a shame they were put in such a small exhibit inside the Dja pavilion. And they are not alone in there - the same exhibit holds a group of the straw-coloured fruit bats.

The southern Luzon giant cloud rats can be seen at the nocturnal section of the Indonesian jungle house, but the northern Luzon giant cloud rats were recently moved off-show. The Philippine porcupines moved in instead. There are no current photos of this exhibit.

Since I've already mentioned one porcupine species, I'm just going to list the other ones too. This Indian crested porcupine exhibit opened in 2024.

credits to @/MagpieGoose

The North American porcupine enclosure is the former sea lion exhibit built in 1931.

credits to @/Kalaw

Cape porcupines live in an exhibit at the Africa Up Close area.

credits to @/Robaque

African brush-tailed porcupines share an exhibit wih Gabon talapoins at Dja reserve. Again, did not find any photos...? Anyway, that's it for the porcupines.

Cape ground squirrels are occupying one of the outdoor exhibits next to the the Africa Up Close house.

credits to @/LaughingDove

There are also free-roaming sousliks which can be spotted around the African savannah. They are being bred in a big cage that can be seen from behind the Dja reserve and also from the main savannah viewpoint.

The Cuban hutia exhibit is located between the South American carnivorian exhibits.

credits to @/LaughingDove

The black-tailed prairie dog exhibit opened in 2019 and it can be found next to the American bison paddock. The tall grass is now gone, because the prairie dogs were not happy about it.

taken from the zoo's website

And again, I would've forgotten about the mesmerizing Chacoan mara enclosure! To find it you need to go to the upper viewing area at the sea lion exhibit. This small enclosure used to hold mongooses in the past, so I suppose Chacoan maras are a better solution, if we forget about the geographical inaccuracy.

credits to @/vogelcommando

credits to @/MagpieGoose

 

[pipaluk]

I make this 61-27 in favour of Prague, I don't think this should even be close. Yes fruit bat forest is an ok exhibit if you can stay in there long enough before you pass out from the stench of urine! 5 minutes is all it is worth, just my opinion sorry!!

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I make this 61-27 in favour of Prague, I don't think this should even be close. Yes fruit bat forest is an ok exhibit if you can stay in there long enough before you pass out from the stench of urine! 5 minutes is all it is worth, just my opinion sorry!!

Two points; firstly, I could have sworn you were previously one of the main people complaining when people reduced matches to pure species-count-comparison with no regard to relative quality, conservation, or other factors secondly, I'd much rather exchange an excellent exhibit like FBF for the occasional strong smell as opposed to (as is the case with Masoala or Gondwanaland) risking active heatstroke within minutes of entering

 

[Kalaw]

The moholi bushbabies were mixed with Malagasy Giant Jumping rat on my visit this summer. I don't remember where the tenrecs were actually.

Nope, there's currently one occupying a very tiny exhibit unfortunately

It seems like quite a bit has changed in that nocturnal section over the past year. In August 2024, the Moholis shared with hedgehog tenrecs and the Senegals shared with jumping rats. Neither the Goodman's Mouse Lemurs nor the jerboas that supposedly share with them were even onshow at the time.

Off-topic, but have either the Moholis or Senegals moved offshow to make space for the mouse lemurs, and do you know what formerly lived in the 'tiny' exhibit where the tenrecs reside now?

 

[merlin]

It seems like quite a bit has changed in that nocturnal section over the past year. In August 2024, the Moholis shared with hedgehog tenrecs and the Senegals shared with jumping rats. Neither the Goodman's Mouse Lemurs nor the jerboas that supposedly share with them were even onshow at the time.

Off-topic, but have either the Moholis or Senegals moved offshow to make space for the mouse lemurs, and do you know what formerly lived in the 'tiny' exhibit where the tenrecs reside now?

Yes, Senegal bushbabies were moved off-show. The exhibit was inhabited by some reptile species previously, but I don't recall which one exactly, sorry.

 

[merlin]

And the last two species currently on-show are the Etruscan shrew and Chinese pangolin. I did not find any photos of the Etruscan shrew exhibit, but it's to be found in the Africa Up Close pavilion. It's a small vertical nocturnal exhibit with artificial narrow corridors. It's backlit and so you can only see the silhouette of the animal.

taken from the ekolist website (this is the exhibit, but it does not actually look like this because of the backlight)

credits to @/Kharzo (this is the actual view)

Chinese Pangolins occupy several enclosures in the nocturnal section of the Indonesian jungle pavilion. There are currently four pangolins - two adults from Taiwan and their two off-springs. The older one called Šiška lives in the first exhibit, which is probably the smallest one, and unfortunately shows signs of stereotypic behaviour...

credits to the nice guy who uploaded this photo in the mapy.cz gallery