Bad conditions in Japanese zoos/aquariums

Jayden8763

Jayden8763

Well-Known Member
for anyone who enjoys these, I'm not trying to offend you, but I really hate the conditions of how animals live in Japan, escpecially exotic ones, it's no different to old zoos, and I just honestly don't like them having seen the horrors of the living conditions.

Kaiyukan for example, biggest aquarium in the world, and yet animals suffer here, the dolphins have extremely bent dorsal fins, and the whale shark is stressed and swims in circles.
what are your thoughts on all this?
 
Personally, I don't think this is true for all of them, but I do feel that many of the exhibits are outdated compared to zoos and aquariums in the Europe & North America. To be honest, I think Japan is lagging behind the Europe & North America in terms of animal welfare.
 
On the other hand, I have never actually visited a zoo or aquarium in Europe & North America, and have only seen the animal exhibits in photographs, but I still think the environment there is better than that of zoos and aquariums in Japan.
 
Jayden8763 said:
for anyone who enjoys these, I'm not trying to offend you, but I really hate the conditions of how animals live in Japan, escpecially exotic ones, it's no different to old zoos, and I just honestly don't like them having seen the horrors of the living conditions.

Kaiyukan for example, biggest aquarium in the world, and yet animals suffer here, the dolphins have extremely bent dorsal fins, and the whale shark is stressed and swims in circles.
what are your thoughts on all this?
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So I want to engage you in a discussion on this, especially with Kaiyukan. While it is true that certain major Japanese aquariums are stuck in the past (Toba >_>), it's not necessarily always due to ignorance. Many times it's due to a lack of municipal funding, as certain Japanese aquariums are not privately owned but rather are owned by the city or prefecture they are located in. This is also the case with Japanese zoos that tend to lag behind the rest, although there the problem is more severe and indefensible.

Kaiyukan is actually one of the least objectionable Japanese aquariums in terms of welfare. Your dolphin example kind of falls flat when you realize that "bent dorsal fins" is really more of a lack of collagen issue that has little to nothing to do with the actual animal's health. We see this in captive orcas who simply don't consume enough collagen to sustain their dorsal fins' structure. I think Kaiyukan's dolphin exhibit is one of the better ones in Japan due to the depth and size of it, as well as enrichment being frequently provided (from what I can see, at least). Also, your claim that Kaiyuan is the "largest aquarium in the world" is false, as it has been surpassed by places like Churaumi after its opening.

In terms of the whale shark... yeah, they swim in circles because the tank they are kept in is circular. Kaiyukan, despite its size, has recognized that it cannot keep fully grown whale sharks ethically in its main tank, so it is one of the Japanese aquariums (joined by Kagoshima and Notojima), that only keeps juveniles and releases them to the wild when they are fully grown. While I love whale sharks and have been enchanted by them since I was a little kid, they're not exactly difficult animals to please in captivity. Churaumi has kept Jinta for 30 years now, as well as keeping other sharks for decades. Out of all megafauna sharks are some of the easiest to provide a good home with, provided they have a large enough tank, and depending on the species, the tank's edges are rounded.
 
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Kludi said:
Why are whale sharks so easy to keep unlike basking and big whites?
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I wouldn't call them easy, but they can be kept in tropical water, whereas basking sharks need very cold water (chilling tanks is expensive). They also feed differently from basking sharks. Basking sharks constantly filter feed (I believe the term for this type of filter feeding is ram feeding), whereas whale sharks suck in large quantities of food at a time, making them much easier to feed. Great whites don't do well generally because they are fast-moving, active, and aggressive animals that have to be fed specific diets, such as whole tuna and marine mammals, which makes them a pretty awful display animal unless you're willing to build a huge tank for one fish that eats a ton.
 
Ebirah766 said:
So I want to engage you in a discussion on this, especially with Kaiyukan. While it is true that certain major Japanese aquariums are stuck in the past (Toba >_>), it's not necessarily always due to ignorance. Many times it's due to a lack of municipal funding, as certain Japanese aquariums are not privately owned but rather are owned by the city or prefecture they are located in. This is also the case with Japanese zoos that tend to lag behind the rest, although there the problem is more severe and indefensible.

Kaiyukan is actually one of the least objectionable Japanese aquariums in terms of welfare. Your dolphin example kind of falls flat when you realize that "bent dorsal fins" is really more of a lack of collagen issue that has little to nothing to do with the actual animal's health. We see this in captive orcas who simply don't consume enough collagen to sustain their dorsal fins' structure. I think Kaiyukan's dolphin exhibit is one of the better ones in Japan due to the depth and size of it, as well as enrichment being frequently provided (from what I can see, at least). Also, your claim that Kaiyuan is the "largest aquarium in the world" is false, as it has been surpassed by places like Churaumi after its opening.

In terms of the whale shark... yeah, they swim in circles because the tank they are kept in is circular. Kaiyukan, despite its size, has recognized that it cannot keep fully grown whale sharks ethically in its main tank, so it is one of the Japanese aquariums (joined by Kagoshima and Notojima), that only keeps juveniles and releases them to the wild when they are fully grown. While I love whale sharks and have been enchanted by them since I was a little kid, they're not exactly difficult animals to please in captivity. Churaumi has kept Jinta for 30 years now, as well as keeping other sharks for decades. Out of all megafauna sharks are some of the easiest to provide a good home with, provided they have a large enough tank, and depending on the species, the tank's edges are rounded.
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Thanks for the info, I was just going off of what I've seen, and I'm mainly talking about zoos in Japan, but not only just them, same with aquariums, what i'm also talking about are some unforgiveable things like exotic wildlife animal cafe's, and other tourist attractions purely for the tourists. Also with Kaiyukan, it might have been the world's biggest aquarium when I visited, but not anymore, I'm honestly not sure, I might have gotten it mixed up as "one" of the world's biggest aquariums, but from memory, the dolphins there in the normal exhibit, weren't in good conditions. I've tried to find pictures, but can't, and the dolphins had tiny amounts of space due to the enclosure being mainly cosmetics, with a large rock wall or something that looked natural, but took up half of the enclosure, again though, i've tried, and I can't find any pictures of it online. I'm also pretty new to this stuff, just about 2 years of researching zoology related things and participarting in related things as a hobby, I'm not that good with alot of stuff, my friends think i'm smart with this stuff, but I'm not that smart compared to other people who actually work in this field obviously. But again, thanks for that info, it makes me feel a bit better about Kaiyukan, but I still don't like the conditions of it. I just feel that if you can't keep animals, and have them kept in good conditions, then you shouldn't. I'm sure you would probably agree with that statement, but again, it's mainly for zoos and other stupid tourist attractions, Kaiyukan was just something I was trying to use as an example.
 
Jayden8763 said:
Thanks for the info, I was just going off of what I've seen, and I'm mainly talking about zoos in Japan, but not only just them, same with aquariums, what i'm also talking about are some unforgiveable things like exotic wildlife animal cafe's, and other tourist attractions purely for the tourists. Also with Kaiyukan, it might have been the world's biggest aquarium when I visited, but not anymore, I'm honestly not sure, I might have gotten it mixed up as "one" of the world's biggest aquariums, but from memory, the dolphins there in the normal exhibit, weren't in good conditions. I've tried to find pictures, but can't, and the dolphins had tiny amounts of space due to the enclosure being mainly cosmetics, with a large rock wall or something that looked natural, but took up half of the enclosure, again though, i've tried, and I can't find any pictures of it online. I'm also pretty new to this stuff, just about 2 years of researching zoology related things and participarting in related things as a hobby, I'm not that good with alot of stuff, my friends think i'm smart with this stuff, but I'm not that smart compared to other people who actually work in this field obviously. But again, thanks for that info, it makes me feel a bit better about Kaiyukan, but I still don't like the conditions of it. I just feel that if you can't keep animals, and have them kept in good conditions, then you shouldn't. I'm sure you would probably agree with that statement, but again, it's mainly for zoos and other stupid tourist attractions, Kaiyukan was just something I was trying to use as an example.
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I do kind of agree with you on the dolphin exhibit needing to be larger laterally. The faux rock takes up too much space. However, there is always room for improvement in cetacean husbandry globally, and Japan is not unique in that.
 
When Osaka Aquarium Kaiyukan first opened, the Tasman Sea tank housed Commerson’s dolphins, so the tank was originally meant for a smaller dolphin species than Pacific white-sided dolphin. Of course, I’m aware that by today’s standards, that tank would still be considered too small even for Commerson’s dolphins.
 
Kludi said:
Why are whale sharks so easy to keep unlike basking and big whites?
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One reason is Whale Sharks are not strictly pelagic like Great Whites or Baskings - they do cross pelagic areas but mainly on route between coastal feeding areas. As they spend a lot of time near the coast, Whale Sharks understand the concept of a solid barrier (pelagic species, on the other hand, do not seem to understand solid objects and will repeatedly ram into the sides of a tank, causing injury or death), so adapt more readily to life in captivity. Additionally, Whale Sharks are capable of buccal pumping (as they are descended from bottom-dwelling orecrolobiform sharks), so don't need to move at high speed constantly to breathe - this also makes them easier to feed. Whether welfare in captivity is good for Whale Sharks is debatable, they are at least able to survive in captivity long-term.
 
DaLilFishie said:
One reason is Whale Sharks are not strictly pelagic like Great Whites or Baskings - they do cross pelagic areas but mainly on route between coastal feeding areas. As they spend a lot of time near the coast, Whale Sharks understand the concept of a solid barrier (pelagic species, on the other hand, do not seem to understand solid objects and will repeatedly ram into the sides of a tank, causing injury or death), so adapt more readily to life in captivity. Additionally, Whale Sharks are capable of buccal pumping (as they are descended from bottom-dwelling orecrolobiform sharks), so don't need to move at high speed constantly to breathe - this also makes them easier to feed. Whether welfare in captivity is good for Whale Sharks is debatable, they are at least able to survive in captivity long-term.
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Thank you for putting this better than I ever could.
 
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