Strathmorezoo
Well-Known Member
He does collect cars, 168 top brand,luxury bloody ones. Kept in a luxury garage with its own service station.
India's Richest Family Building World's Largest Zoo
- Thread starter Smaggledagle
- Start date
As far as I know, Anant also collects horses as well, which begs the question if the horses are kept near or in the zoo. If so, then how much space do they take away from the menagerie?
Zz123
Well-Known Member
On conservation, I won’t dispute the point. Vantara has yet to show outcome-level evidence, and the Supreme Court’s ruling focused on legal compliance rather than conservation outcomes. The burden therefore remains on Vantara to provide proof. Hopefully, they will prioritize conservation over accumulating animals as a matter of taste—like collecting cars.
I guess my bottom line is this. If (or when!) I had half their money I'd have myself a big ass
zoo as well. I'd use it for conservation and not have like 250 mutt lions and the like, but then that is my preference. I never had much in the way of doubt that the animals are well cared for but the
acquisition of at least some of them has seemed problematical.
Can and do super rich dudes game the system? sure. It bears watching but
I guess you have to accept they are in the clear, for now.
zoo as well. I'd use it for conservation and not have like 250 mutt lions and the like, but then that is my preference. I never had much in the way of doubt that the animals are well cared for but the
acquisition of at least some of them has seemed problematical.
Can and do super rich dudes game the system? sure. It bears watching but
I guess you have to accept they are in the clear, for now.
As would I - but I certainly don't need a hundred Giant Otter, 150 Giant Anteater, and couple hundred Green Tree Pythons to be satisfied! A family group of otters, two pairs of anteaters, and a couple pythons is plenty. There's a point it's just hoarding, and the more you have the harder it gets to care for everything...
Lafone
Well-Known Member
Indeed and I don't think anyone has to accept they are in the clear on either acquisition, welfare or conservation, simply that they provided a two week review with copies of paperwork. The wider information available on this suggests paperwork is not the full story and indeed the more I read the more I wonder who agreed the scope of the review.
Randomname0183
Well-Known Member
While I have yet to read the current reports (or government report from india, if it's available) on the Vantara investigation, I cannot imagine that a facility with such insane numbers of animals would be sourcing all of them from captive breeding, be it the hundreds of giant otters from venezuela (there are zoos in venezuela with them, but definetely no tin such insane numbers) or the oddities like Mountain Gorillas or the Tapanuli Orangutan. My guess is that there was some white-collar mischief behind the scenes, which would check out considering the inmense wealth the Ambanis have.
Additionally, the wherebouts of a lot of these animals has not been publicly disclosed beyond at some point being within the zoo, so it could lie perfectly within reason that many of the "captive bred" arrivals from the UAE are just being processed and then sent off to the highest bidders. The Chondro Pythons would be a possible example, as they're popular snakes in the pet trade, and there's bound to be paying customers or breeders who would want new wild stock without the intial downsides of wild imports.
Credit where due, from the little that i've seen Vantara does seem to have some sizeable veterinary facilities, so at least some of the animals are recieving good care. Despite this, it is perfectly reasonable that this is again all for show, and most of the animals in the non-fancy parts of the centre are not being kept in such good conditions.
An unfortunate situation overall, though we may have to wait and see for more images/videos to see what else is going on.
Additionally, the wherebouts of a lot of these animals has not been publicly disclosed beyond at some point being within the zoo, so it could lie perfectly within reason that many of the "captive bred" arrivals from the UAE are just being processed and then sent off to the highest bidders. The Chondro Pythons would be a possible example, as they're popular snakes in the pet trade, and there's bound to be paying customers or breeders who would want new wild stock without the intial downsides of wild imports.
Credit where due, from the little that i've seen Vantara does seem to have some sizeable veterinary facilities, so at least some of the animals are recieving good care. Despite this, it is perfectly reasonable that this is again all for show, and most of the animals in the non-fancy parts of the centre are not being kept in such good conditions.
An unfortunate situation overall, though we may have to wait and see for more images/videos to see what else is going on.
Randomname0183
Well-Known Member
It was mentioned in the SZ investigation I believe, and if memory serves me right the reporter themself got to see the animal at the zoo. The gorilla came from the UAE and was recorded as "Captive Bred" I think, though its most certain that it was smuggled out of africa.
Reading the recent conversation on whether we should accept the results of the investigation, my mind drifts back to the discovery some years ago that captive Marine iguanas were on display in Uganda. My initial reaction was positive until I looked for more information. @Great Argus and @lintworm did some excellent work here, here and here explaining how it was impossible for the iguanas to have been brought there legally, and how easy it can be to import trafficked animals by going through multiple counties until 'correct' legal paperwork can be acquired and obscuring their origins. This wasn't something I understood before; I really recommend reading it, and it's part of why I feel a pause about Vantara.
For example above, there is no captive population of mountain gorillas. A "captive-bred" mountain gorilla is either a mislabeled captive-bred lowland gorilla or would have been wild-born, especially as a private keeper with mountain gorilla would surely have publicized this fact well before breeding occurred. Any of these outcomes implies some suspicious circumstances.
For example above, there is no captive population of mountain gorillas. A "captive-bred" mountain gorilla is either a mislabeled captive-bred lowland gorilla or would have been wild-born, especially as a private keeper with mountain gorilla would surely have publicized this fact well before breeding occurred. Any of these outcomes implies some suspicious circumstances.
For anyone interested, go here: CITES Trade Database
1. Set your date range to 2019 to 2025
2. Set India as the importer
3. Put Z (zoo) as the purpose
4. Hit get report
5. Look through and watch the species carefully, also noting exporters and how many have C for captive bred
The numbers claimed are a lot lower than articles have claimed, but um, the species imported and the consistent captive bred claims...
1. Set your date range to 2019 to 2025
2. Set India as the importer
3. Put Z (zoo) as the purpose
4. Hit get report
5. Look through and watch the species carefully, also noting exporters and how many have C for captive bred
The numbers claimed are a lot lower than articles have claimed, but um, the species imported and the consistent captive bred claims...
Lafone
Well-Known Member
Very interesting and the route using UAE as a source in is a feature in itself...really large quantities of captive born chimps and tigers for example (100 tigers in one go).
I guess this would include all Indian zoos. But Vantara would be the largest importer?
It does, yes. But I expect Vantara is the only one importing a lot of those species. Running a similar report from 2010 to 2015 gets me only a very small list with literally nothing odd at all.
Lafone
Well-Known Member
The volumes don't make much sense vs the mission stated by the zoo. It does look like hoarding as you mentioned above. Not to say they haven't also gathered lots of expertise, vets and a large staff but the sheer volume of animals is staggering and the google map grabs really don't suggest they are all housed as well as the on show to the media areas represent. Hundreds of big cats alone can't fit into the spaces illustrated with anything but pretty small enclosures. It beggars belief that all these animals are being bred in captivity.
The database also doesn't show the scale of elephant acquisition from states across India where, in many cases, the elephants are being driven past numerous other sanctuaries, resuce centres and safe release areas on their journey across the country to this collection.
Indeed not - they state conservation but where are they importing from? Large numbers of reptiles coming from Czech Republic and Austria. Parrots and various else from South Africa. Wide variety coming from Mexico and the UAE. Countries with known smuggling hubs or that tend to be lax on conservation. I saw multiple species go by that are illegal to export from their native country.
Oh they certainly are playing games there. 30 captive bred Jabiru from Venezuela in one import? Has any zoo had much success with them? They're barely even held in their native range. 12 Purple-faced Langur of Sri Lanka, maybe? 10 Lammergier and 4 Shoebill from Mozambique as captive bred? Doubtful. The 16 Bornean Earless Monitors from Austria maybe in part. The captive-bred denotation allows for a large amount of the permitting process to be skipped is my understanding.
50 capuchins from Guyana stated as wild-caught among a few others, I find it hard to believe those were all rescues.
Apparently the 2 week stint was enough the courts have given Vantara immunity from any further cases being raised against them and the option to seek defamation - a very interesting move indeed.
Reliance’s Vantara cleared of PIL allegations: What SC’s investigation team found
Reliance’s Vantara cleared of PIL allegations: What SC’s investigation team found
Wow. I don't see any world in which this isn't egregious. Even if I were to assume the two-week investigation were completely truthful, it would even seem excessive to give the zoo a permanent immunity from cases. Should something be happen in the future and be completely provable, it would now be barred from being pursued because they were cleared at this time, from the sound of it. I wouldn't want any facility to have that level of power, even a renowned one.
This only makes it more likely that the outcome of this "investigation" was already known beforehand and was ordered to silence criticism.
splendens
Well-Known Member
I haven't been keeping up with this but those numbers are absolutely absurd.
Indian justice seems to turn into complete joke when it encounters weathy powerfull people.