Lowland gorillas in Europe 2009

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I can't find where it was mentioned before, but wasn't the dead baby found in Mandji's nest proved to be hers also?
 
Yes, the dead baby was Mandji`s. It`s just the question if Mapasa was the dead baby`s surviving twin or if Mandji kidnapped him from Kiwisa.
 
Despite what's been said above, I still suspect Mapasa may be Kiiwisa's. Kiwisa was pregnant but then suddenly she wasn't anymore...if the baby wasn't Mapassa what happened to hers?. Also it seems rather unlikely for twins to be born several days apart. I have also come across this sort of behaviour once before with an older pregnant near- term female stealing a subordinate's baby.
 
It is my feeling that Kisiwa gave birth to Mapassa. But it is only a feeling.
 
I looked the story up on the website of Apenheul.
They were able to collect hairs from Mandji, Jambo and the dead baby. They couldn't collect hairs from Kisiwa and Mapasa.

The result of the DNA on the hairs of Mandji, Jambo and the dead baby revealed 'the dead baby could be Mandji' baby'. To be more sure they need Kisiwa's DNA aswell, but she's to shy to pull hairs from. Mandji is believed to be the mother for some reasons according to Apenheul: kidnapping babies is very unusual among gorillas (I do not agree on this point, last year in the same Apenheul Mintha stole the baby of Kisiwi, Lembo'e, for 48 hours and she had to be tranquilized to get the baby back!), an experienced mother like Mandji wouldn't leave the dead baby in the nest, the same colour of the fur, and the similar behaviour of this baby with previous offspring of Mandji.

Just a little note: Kisiwa is shy and Mapasa too :)
 
For what reason Mintha has stolen Lembo'e from Kisiwa?
Now is known Lembo'e has passed away.
 
Kriba said:
Mandji is believed to be the mother for some reasons according to Apenheul: kidnapping babies is very unusual among gorillas (I do not agree on this point, last year in the same Apenheul Mintha stole the baby of Kisiwi, Lembo'e, for 48 hours and she had to be tranquilized to get the baby back!), an experienced mother like Mandji wouldn't leave the dead baby in the nest, the same colour of the fur, and the similar behaviour of this baby with previous offspring of Mandji.
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1. I too know of an example at Bristol Zoo in 1971- again two females(both primiparous) pregnant together and the subordinate gave birth first- the slightly older female stole it and it died. she then reared her own when it was born.

2. I don't understand the point about leaving the dead baby in the nest.

3. Hair colour- most baby gorillas are very 'black' in colour though I agree it there are varying shades so it could be an indicator.

4. Behaviour- is largely determined by her method of rearing and 'mother' so is bound to be like Mandji's previous offspring, irrespective of true identity.

I still think they will eventually discover he is Kisiwa's...;)
 
I agree on you Pertinax, especially on point 4. I was thinking the same thing. About 2. I can only guess what they mean: an experienced mother would carry her dead baby with her for some days??

They had a chance to solve the puzzle. Last week they had to tranquilize Kisiwa to take the sick baby Lembo'e away. Easy to take some hairs at that moment!

John, I don't know why Mintha stole the baby. She was pregnant at that time, so my guess: hormones were running around:) Lembo'e was only a few weeks old and without milk for 48 hours.
 
Kriba said:
About 2. I can only guess what they mean: an experienced mother would carry her dead baby with her for some days??

They had a chance to solve the puzzle. Last week they had to tranquilize Kisiwa to take the sick baby Lembo'e away. Easy to take some hairs at that moment!

John, I don't know why Mintha stole the baby. She was pregnant at that time, so my guess: hormones were running around:) Lembo'e was only a few weeks old and without milk for 48 hours.
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1. About 2. As Mandji already had a live baby to occupy her, she might well ignore the dead baby, leaving it in the nest instead of carrying it around with her as she might have done otherwise. I still think that Mandji did steal Mapassa and when her own baby was born a few days later, she did not clean it properly or give it normal care as she was carrying a live infant already- so it died or was perhaps stillborn. Just my guess...

2. With Kisiwa I guess they were too concerned with the sick baby to think of taking hairs- a pity though.

3. again another example- Mintha -an older pregnant female- taking a subordinate female's baby. I'm sure hormones are responsible but only a more dominant female would be confident enough to do this. Lembo'e could have been weakened by this experience too- may longterm have contributed to her death?

4. hopefully Kisiwa will be able to rear her next baby.
 
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It has been obvious that Lembo'e was in a very bad condition, on the momentum that Mintha took him.
That could be a reason for Mintha in doing so.
 
john said:
It has been obvious that Lembo'e was in a very bad condition, on the momentum that Mintha took him.
That could be a reason for Mintha in doing so.
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But was Lembo'e in poor condition before Mintha took him? or was it the result of not being able to feed while being carried by Mintha?

This was Kisiwa's first attempt at rearing so maybe things will go better next time. Now Mintha and Mandji both have babies to rear they should leave her next baby alone.
 
From what I know Lemboe`s condition was bad before Mintha took her (it was a female). I have heard that the Apenheul keepers were considering last year to remove her for handrearing because she doing so poorly, but at the end they must have decided against this until last week. Too bad it was already too late.
 
Gorilla Dalila is doing great in Gaiapark!
Within a few hours she was introduced to all the members of the group. All the gorillas, including Irala the alpha female, welcomed Dalila with friendly noises, and there were no problems at all. Just a warm welcome! They clearly recognized eachother after 5 years.
Makula and Dalila mated the same day, something she never did with Jambo.
I'm happy she found a good home.
 
Kriba said:
Makula and Dalila mated the same day, something she never did with Jambo.
I'm happy she found a good home.
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That is excellent news. 'Sameday matings' prove an immediate rapport has been established and hopefully another baby in the future. A better life for Dalila now.:):)
 
Excellent news. The same day mating suggest that perhaps non-breeding or compatible gorillas should be taken out more quickly if clearly the silverback does not take an interest with a previous history of breeding.

I suppose that Dalila and the others DID recognise their relative beyond a credible doubt! And well Makula, no problem ... just a nice new female for me! :D
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
Excellent news. The same day mating suggest that perhaps non-breeding or compatible gorillas should be taken out more quickly if clearly the silverback does not take an interest with a previous history of breeding.
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Sometimes it are the females who don't take an interest in a silverback :cool:
In this case Dalila didn't like Jambo and refused to mate with him.
I agree with you, action should be taken much quicker in case of very problematic relations.
 
Kriba said:
I agree with you, action should be taken much quicker in case of very problematic relations.
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Dalila and Jambo were obviously never going to be compatable.

The longest 'delay' where mating eventually did take place that I know of is one year- a female from Twycross was sent to Bristol Zoo on breeding loan, but she was so stressed and frightened by the role reversal- she was no longer the dominant animal, that it took a whole year before mating took place. They were just about to give up and send her back when things suddenly changed.

On the other hand, when silverback Jomie was sent to London Zoo from Port Lympne, it was an immediate thing- he was mating one of the females within an hour of them being put together....:eek:
 
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