Global Captive Orca Population

Jambo said:
Obviously it's incredibly important this pair leaves ASAP. If the photos of the state of the pools don't tell everyone that, I honestly don't know what will...
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Agenda needs to be put aside and get them moved somewhere that's not deteriorating. Water quality is very possibly suffering if the pools are looking like that. They clearly cannot stay there too much longer without risking an increasing number of issues. There are facilities that can and would take them, do what's right by the animals damn it!
 
Randomname0183 said:
At long last, some good news for the Antibes animals. Hopefully they wont face any of the issues faced by the other orcas at Loro Parque, or bred.
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Loro Parque is a pretty strong believer in "natural" breeding. So... if Wikie and Keijo do make it there, they will most likely contribute.

It wouldn't surprise me if the French government did try to attach non-breeding clauses to the transfer, though. But given Loro Parque's history of, um... viewing such clauses as a "suggestion", I wouldn't hold my breath on them actually following them.

Besides, even if Loro Parque does break the non-breeding clauses, what could the French government even do to them? Take Wikie and Keijo back?

Yeah right.
 
Wisp O' Mist said:
Loro Parque is a pretty strong believer in "natural" breeding. So... if Wikie and Keijo do make it there, they will most likely contribute.

It wouldn't surprise me if the French government did try to attach non-breeding clauses to the transfer, though. But given Loro Parque's history of, um... viewing such clauses as a "suggestion", I wouldn't hold my breath on them actually following them.

Besides, even if Loro Parque does break the non-breeding clauses, what could the French government even do to them? Take Wikie and Keijo back?

Yeah right.
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LP seem to have a history of their animals breeding by 'accident'.:rolleyes:

Especially since they just welcomed a calf earlier this year to Morgan, it does seem like they plan to grow numbers back up again after a few recent deaths.
 
Even if Wikie and Keijo are allow to breed with the rest of the pod the chances of a successful breeding program are still pretty low and they won't really get much babies out of it... Considering that Wikie must be currently under contraceptive I guess this will still have some effect once she reaches to Loro Parque so it will take time for her body to be fully ready to breed again and for Keijo with his poor health I don't think he would manage to get very successful offsprings, add the fact we don't even know if they will get along properly with the rest of the pod or they would be some conflict that makes it harder for any natural breeding to actually happen.

I hope the transfer is allow this time and we can put an end to this nightmare.
 
Knowing Loro Parque, I do feel that their goal is to breed, as everyone else here has mentioned. While already a genetic mess by crossing ecotypes yet again, I would be particularly concerned about the fates of any calves sired, as Loro Parque has a far from enviable track record with their calves, which I believe comes down to the feeding formula having a tendecy to cause serious digestive issues, and owning far from suitable mothers such as Morgan due to low milk production. As far as the males go, allowing Adan to sire a calf could come with its own issues considering he is inbred.

As happy as I am to see the Antibes Orcas finally get out of their current tank, I cannot say I am as enthusiastic to see if they are to be used for producing new calves once in the Canary Islands. One can however hope that they will regardless recieve proper care and facilities in what will hopefully be their final destination.
 
LiSom said:
Even if Wikie and Keijo are allow to breed with the rest of the pod the chances of a successful breeding program are still pretty low and they won't really get much babies out of it... Considering that Wikie must be currently under contraceptive I guess this will still have some effect once she reaches to Loro Parque so it will take time for her body to be fully ready to breed again and for Keijo with his poor health I don't think he would manage to get very successful offsprings, add the fact we don't even know if they will get along properly with the rest of the pod or they would be some conflict that makes it harder for any natural breeding to actually happen.

I hope the transfer is allow this time and we can put an end to this nightmare.
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Even if we account for Wikie's contraception easing, she's still on the younger side and within a few years could end up delivering a calf of her own. There's very rarely any conflicts amongst male and female whales that end up preventing breeding. Even though Tilikum was disliked by a fair amount of the Orlando girls, they would always show great interest in being with him when cycling. And that was the only time where they wouldn't rake him; obviously with the exception of a few of the girls, like Taima.
Randomname0183 said:
While already a genetic mess by crossing ecotypes yet again
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Wikie and Keijo are both full Icelandic, so not really.
 
Jambo said:
Wikie and Keijo are both full Icelandic, so not really.
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To say nothing of the genetics of the orca already at Loro Parque.

Tekoa: 75% Icelandic, 25% Bigg's Transient.

Adán: 87.5% Icelandic, 12.5% Southern Resident.

Morgan: 100% Norwegian.

Teno: 50% Norwegian, 37.5% Icelandic, & 12.5% Bigg's Transient or 12.5% Southern Resident.

(While it's not currently known who sired Teno, both Keto and Tekoa are apparently in the running. Tekoa's ancestry is noted above, while Keto's was 75% Icelandic, 25% Southern Resident.)

So, as one can see, Icelandic blood is already quite prevalent at Loro Parque. And I doubt adding more via Wikie and Keijo will have an adverse impact on the pod.
 
yahnih said:
Interesting that SWSD was actually an option , opposed to SWO or SWSA

Marineland Antibes: Klare Worte in Offenem Brief - zoosmedia
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It's interesting that the ministry wanted to send them to San Diego specifically. The park does have the best social situation for their orcas, and arguably the best care program - but aside from that, I don't see why they'd rule Orlando and San Antonio both out. Both facilities arguably have more space atm for an additional two orcas. Furthermore, San Diego can't even acquire new orcas due to the laws that were put in place a decade ago, without strict exemptions.

San Diego is the only Seaworld facility with a strict state breeding ban in place, so that may be have been part of the decision making. Also, there may have been interest in reuniting Wikie with Shouka.
 
Jambo said:
It's interesting that the ministry wanted to send them to San Diego specifically. The park does have the best social situation for their orcas, and arguably the best care program - but aside from that, I don't see why they'd rule Orlando and San Antonio both out. Both facilities arguably have more space atm for an additional two orcas. Furthermore, San Diego can't even acquire new orcas due to the laws that were put in place a decade ago, without strict exemptions.

San Diego is the only Seaworld facility with a strict state breeding ban in place, so that may be have been part of the decision making. Also, there may have been interest in reuniting Wikie with Shouka.
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Wikie was less than one year old when Shouka left Antibes though...

IDK, at this point I have trouble imagining the French government saying yes to a transfer to Seaworld but no to Loro Parque. I wonder if the government could make a transfer to Loro Parque conditional on the park committing not to breed Wikie and Keijo, although that may be a red line for Loro Parque, given the complications associated with having to always separate the animals and/or putting the females on birth control.

By the way, do we know why Seaworld is not currently using birth control on the females in Orlando? I think Taima was the only one they used it on. I remember in the leaked animal profiles, Seaworld mentioned birth control as one of the reasons why waterwork with Taima was not an option, so maybe they think it has a negative effect on the orcas' behavior (not that Taima didn't have behavioral issues before the birth control LOL).
 
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