Dolphins & whales in the UK
- Thread starter stephend
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AFAIR The regulations were changed by the governement and made a lot tougher and none of the existing dolphinarium met the new standard. Because of the expense and time contraints involved in updating the dolphinariums the UK based dolphins went abroad while the owners considered their next move. New regulations on importation of dolphin were also introduced making it difficult to bring them back and the new regulations were going to be very expensive to implement. Because of the UK climate there are only a few months of the year where the dolphinarium could be profitable. The size of the pool requirements would result in extremely high heating costs for the colder UK climate. In warmer climates e.g. Loro park in tenerife there is nearly year round sunshine, where there is sunshine there is tourists, where there is tourists there is money! Also in the 80s air travel became much cheaper as package holidays took off, this meant the the number of people taking there holiday in the UK dropped as did attendances at UK zoos and other UK visitor attractions.
There have always been those against dolphins in captivity and there always will be. The regulations may have been introduced after campaigns to their local MPs but was probably brought about after scientific evidence had been gathered in the period leading up to the changes in regulation, in which several dolphins died prematurely. I used to love the dolphin show and viewing them under water at Whipsnade. After seeing the pools in Sea World and Loro Park and then comparing it to the Whipsnade pool, I cant believe they had three dolphins in there at one point. Even today though the pool is deep I'd like to see a more naturalistic exhibit for the sealions at Whipsnade but this is probably for my comfort and not theres as I'm sure aesthetics dont help the animals needs.
There have always been those against dolphins in captivity and there always will be. The regulations may have been introduced after campaigns to their local MPs but was probably brought about after scientific evidence had been gathered in the period leading up to the changes in regulation, in which several dolphins died prematurely. I used to love the dolphin show and viewing them under water at Whipsnade. After seeing the pools in Sea World and Loro Park and then comparing it to the Whipsnade pool, I cant believe they had three dolphins in there at one point. Even today though the pool is deep I'd like to see a more naturalistic exhibit for the sealions at Whipsnade but this is probably for my comfort and not theres as I'm sure aesthetics dont help the animals needs.
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Not to stray too far off-topic, but how is the Whipsnade giraffe exhibit one of the worst you've ever seen?
No, it just wouldn't work for the reasons said earlier in this thread. Seaworld's key image is that of Orca. Just imagine the uproar if an organisation tried to import a group of Orca in this current time.
MarwellGirl09
Well-Known Member
Like zebedee101 said, it's more of a moral and a monetary thing. Also, we have a REALLY bad track record with Cetaceans. If you look at any of the places that held Dolphins, especially Orca's (Killer Whales) then you'd be able to see how bad their pools were. The majority that lived in the UK died extremely young. A lot of Bottlenosed Dolphins died young as well. The Orcas that moved out (eg Winnie, Hoi Wai and Winston/Ramu at Windsor Safari Park) survived for quite a while at other parks like Sea World.
Actually, Orcas prefer colder water, so we'd have very little problem with that. But Bottlenosed Dolphins seems to like warmer water, but it really wouldn't take much to warm the water. It still feels cold to us, so you know, it's not like Sauna temperatures
Any way, Orca's fair well in Canada at Marineland as do their Dolphins (but I think that they Dolphins get moved into a building in the winter) so they'd definitely be able to survive a -3 Winter 
I really don't think the UK should have cetaceans. Not only would there be half the population protesting, but it would cost waaay too much. Also, we know very little about cetaceans, Marine Mammal Rescue groups ID species of Dolphin wrong when there's a big difference between say a Common Dolphin and a Striped Dolphs :S But, in the future (like 50 years) if possible, it might be a good time... but I don't think it ever will be...
Actually, Orcas prefer colder water, so we'd have very little problem with that. But Bottlenosed Dolphins seems to like warmer water, but it really wouldn't take much to warm the water. It still feels cold to us, so you know, it's not like Sauna temperatures
Any way, Orca's fair well in Canada at Marineland as do their Dolphins (but I think that they Dolphins get moved into a building in the winter) so they'd definitely be able to survive a -3 Winter I really don't think the UK should have cetaceans. Not only would there be half the population protesting, but it would cost waaay too much. Also, we know very little about cetaceans, Marine Mammal Rescue groups ID species of Dolphin wrong when there's a big difference between say a Common Dolphin and a Striped Dolphs :S But, in the future (like 50 years) if possible, it might be a good time... but I don't think it ever will be...
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well its not a particarly large enclosure and its positivley bare (it is the worst ive seen, however ive never seen a terrible giraffe exhibit, so its sutible but should be larger)
its true abou the orca, but i still think if a decent enclosure was built in the uk, dolphins or even orca could be housed!
MarwellGirl09
Well-Known Member
Yes, if there was a big enough set of pools Orca's and other Dolphin species could be housed. But they just shouldn't.
MarwellGirl09
Well-Known Member
We struggle with the animals we have at the moment. I wouldn't go to a UK version of Sea World. It's way too expensive for anyone to start thinking about it anyway. Even then, it would probably be built to the MINIMUM standards which just isn't good enough. To be impressive, it would HAVE to be at least the size of Marineland Antibes or Loro Parque, which ever is largest. We really shouldn't have them. That's just my personal opinion.
The cost of creating a massive tank which is either chilled or heated as well as all the other animal associated costs will be astronomical. Commercial parks are able to keep them because they are subsidised by massive sponsorship contracts. Zoos which are registered charitys simply would not be able to afford to build a cetacean tank.
I also don't like the aspect of cetacean keeping which SeaWorld use i.e the firework shows and loud music whilst the whales are performing.
Animal rights groups would be all over this like a rash. Imagine the negative response to 3 elephants in a circus multiplyed by 10!
There is a reason why zoos across the globe favour sealions and other pinnipeds over cetaceans...
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does that meen that they shouldnt be kept of shouldnt be in the uk
Jimmy, there is no more fireworks at the seaworld shows, but i do disagree with the loud music
MarwellGirl09
Well-Known Member
I mean they shouldn't be kept in the UK, we just do NOT have the resources for such animals. Who exactly would give us Dolphins or Orcas? Orca's are rare enough there are only 42 in captivity world wide. Obviously there are many more Dolphins, but we can't capture them (Not that we should either. I'd be the first to protest against any captures). However, Orca's don't travel as far as they do just because they can. They follow food, of course this doesn't mean they should be in puddles, just because we can put them in there.
Very few places with cetaceans use fireworks now, if they do, they're normally extremely poorly run. Also, Cetaceans can't actually hear the music, they can only hear frequencies above and below our range. But yes, they can possible feel the vibrations. If they are affected by it, they don't show it what so ever. That's just me speaking as someone who's been to Sea World Florida and Marineland Antibes. None of the Orca's I've seen have been bothered by the noises, even as tiny calves they don't really take any notice, which is why they use the dog whistles. The Orca's can hear them, but I think it's one of the few things that humans and Orca's can both hear. :S
Very few places with cetaceans use fireworks now, if they do, they're normally extremely poorly run. Also, Cetaceans can't actually hear the music, they can only hear frequencies above and below our range. But yes, they can possible feel the vibrations. If they are affected by it, they don't show it what so ever. That's just me speaking as someone who's been to Sea World Florida and Marineland Antibes. None of the Orca's I've seen have been bothered by the noises, even as tiny calves they don't really take any notice, which is why they use the dog whistles. The Orca's can hear them, but I think it's one of the few things that humans and Orca's can both hear. :S
If you want to see bottle-nosed dolphins, go and see our own British ones in the Moray Firth. The Scottish water is so cold that they are much bigger and fatter than the imported specimens that used to kept in 'dolphinaria'. See the thread I started here http://www.zoochat.com/173/dolphins-22558/
There are also bottle-nosed dolphins in Cardigan Bay and other whales off the west coast of Scotland - but I don't think that they are as easy to see as the ones which come close inshore at Chanonry Point.
Alan
There are also bottle-nosed dolphins in Cardigan Bay and other whales off the west coast of Scotland - but I don't think that they are as easy to see as the ones which come close inshore at Chanonry Point.
Alan
It's a touchy subject, but I don't believe any species can't be kept in captivity, it's just a case of a facility willing to construct the right enclosures which would be a mammoth task, but not impossible IMO.
And Cat-man, couldn't disagree more about the Whipsnade sealion pool as it's one of the largest in the UK: Yes it's old fashioned, but it's got a massive water volume, a big outdoor pool with a bigger indoor one, and they are given a lot of enrichment and they do the shows, so they're always busy.
And Cat-man, couldn't disagree more about the Whipsnade sealion pool as it's one of the largest in the UK: Yes it's old fashioned, but it's got a massive water volume, a big outdoor pool with a bigger indoor one, and they are given a lot of enrichment and they do the shows, so they're always busy.
MarwellGirl09
Well-Known Member
It's not that they CAN'T be kept in captivity. It's that the UK shouldn't have these animals, we just do NOT have the space or the ability to care for them.
The Whipsnade Sea Lion enclosures ARE small. But they definitely are NOT the worst. :S
The Whipsnade Sea Lion enclosures ARE small. But they definitely are NOT the worst. :S
Thatnks ashley, all i can remeber from my visit in 2006 of the sealion pool is 4 sealions cramped in a stone and conrete pool
I don't agree, if Seaworld were to open a park for instance they'd bring all their ability and skills with them, even though we don't have enough space in any current zoos. Germany has them and that's only just accross the pond 
Edit: And cat-man, it's not really cramped, much bigger than Bristol's pool. I think it appears small because it's quite narrow. There are 3 pools though, and they're all a very fair size.
Edit: And cat-man, it's not really cramped, much bigger than Bristol's pool. I think it appears small because it's quite narrow. There are 3 pools though, and they're all a very fair size.
easytigger
Well-Known Member
One day a collection will be brave enough to bring back cetaceans into the UK, whatever the morals and ethics, they are proven crowd pullers.
The collections that kept them in the past kept them poorly, but times have changed, just look at the revolution in elephant husbandry in the last decade or so.
No collection would keep these animals in barren featureless contrete pools no bigger and in many cases smaller then a swimming pool, but as has already been touched upon the cost of creating these enclosures would be vast, but I'm 99% sure it will happen, and fairly soon.
The collections that kept them in the past kept them poorly, but times have changed, just look at the revolution in elephant husbandry in the last decade or so.
No collection would keep these animals in barren featureless contrete pools no bigger and in many cases smaller then a swimming pool, but as has already been touched upon the cost of creating these enclosures would be vast, but I'm 99% sure it will happen, and fairly soon.
