Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025

[Jambo]

Running with the rumor that Monarto won't be breeding from Putra Mas and Pak Boon, I do think Monarto are in a great position to begin the transition into a bachelor facility in the coming decades, of which the region desperately needs.

Even at the present time (depending on how many stalls the bull barn has), if they can manage to integrate the girls into at least two groups, they could afford to acquire a young bull from another facility regionally.

As it stands, the best candidate would be Sabai at Dubbo. He could have the opportunity to be mentored by Putra Mas, giving Putra Mas the opportunity to interact with another bull socially. And if Anjalee's next calf is a male, perhaps we could end up seeing Sabai and the young calf being transferred down together in just under a decades time.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

Honestly, I'm not surprised. I remember @Zoofan15 speculated a few years back that Pak Boon had been removed from the breeding program (due to medical reasons) - and this is a theory that I too have maintained since. It makes sense as to why there was no rush to breed her again after Jai Dee's death; Taronga had years to do so. I'm also very sure breeding would have been specifically mentioned by all three facilities (Taronga, Perth and Monarto), but it never has.

I've scrolled through and read the comments and the commenter states this was from when she visited just a few weeks ago - so fairly new information. Even for volunteers, I'd still doubt they'd specifically say they won't be breeding, if there indeed were plans to, or they weren't in the know.

Just to play Devil's advocate, it is very common for volunteers to just share incorrect information, or guests to misinterpret something they've been told. I've witnessed it at almost every zoo I've been to and I'm sure it's the same in Australia
Perhaps they meant no breeding before Putra Mas was onsite? But that feels like a stretch given the context.

It is strange, honestly, given that Monarto has been riding this "multigenerational herd" thing for a while now. If Pak Boon had been retired, knowingly, years ago why would they state intent to breed from her? Furthermore, why wouldn't they have made an effort to bring in a viable cow like Thong Dee, especially given that Pak Boon and Tang Mo already know her and would likely be happy to reunite.

 

[Jambo]

Just to play Devil's advocate, it is very common for volunteers to just share incorrect information, or guests to misinterpret something they've been told. I've witnessed it at almost every zoo I've been to and I'm sure it's the same in Australia
Perhaps they meant no breeding before Putra Mas was onsite? But that feels like a stretch given the context.

It is strange, honestly, given that Monarto has been riding this "multigenerational herd" thing for a while now. If Pak Boon had been retired, knowingly, years ago why would they state intent to breed from her? Furthermore, why wouldn't they have made an effort to bring in a viable cow like Thong Dee, especially given that Pak Boon and Tang Mo already know her and would likely be happy to reunite.

It's definitely the same here in Australia! Obviously it should be taken with a grain of salt before official confirmation from a keeper or the zoo themselves. But it's still interesting to hear nonetheless and as it furthers what I myself have personally been thinking too.

Monarto's 'multi generational herd' term could just come down to the fact that they've brought elephants of all sexes and ages together, which is something they've mentioned over and over.

Re. Pak Boon breeding, I don't think it has been explicitly stated by the zoos themselves nor from an elephant keeper.

Acquiring Thong Dee would have been a nice move, but I think it comes down to the fact that she's been retired from the breeding program as well due to her representation. Furthermore, there's a good chance Dubbo sees her as being a valuable member of their herd and perhaps moving her presence does indeed held balance the herd with Anjalee and then the mother/daughter duo of Porntip and Kanlaya.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

It's definitely the same here in Australia! Obviously it should be taken with a grain of salt before official confirmation from a keeper or the zoo themselves. But it's still interesting to hear nonetheless and as it furthers what I myself have personally been thinking too.

Monarto's 'multi generational herd' term could just come down to the fact that they've brought elephants of all sexes and ages together, which is something they've mentioned over and over.

Re. Pak Boon breeding, I don't think it has been explicitly stated by the zoos themselves nor from an elephant keeper.

Acquiring Thong Dee would have been a nice move, but I think it comes down to the fact that she's been retired from the breeding program as well due to her representation. Furthermore, there's a good chance Dubbo sees her as being a valuable member of their herd and perhaps moving her presence does indeed held balance the herd with Anjalee and then the mother/daughter duo of Porntip and Kanlaya.

Fair points as well! Ultimately we're just going to have to wait and see. There have been so many news reports, visitor reports, etc stating different things, it's really hard to be certian. I could've sworn I had seen a post stating Pak Boon was still reproductive and would be bred, but with so much buzz about the transfers I cannot even remotely remember when or where that would've been.
The biggest thing that will be disappointing if Pak Boon doesn't breed is Putra Mas' chances of breeding naturally. While I myself have been quite skeptical of him succeeding, it would've been incredibly ideal to give him that chance. Assuming they don't bring in more cows for years yet - if ever - he's stuck contributing via AI (which the region as a whole has begun to stray away from).

 

[Pertinax]

I found a news article on Putra Mas's arrival. Excitedly he will have the opportunity to interact with the girls quite soon.

Over the next few weeks, Putra Mas will complete a standard quarantine period while he adjusts to his surroundings. During this time, he may even interact with the female elephants through safe bollard barriers — but only if they choose to. Keepers will be taking cues from Putra Mas and the cows to make sure everyone settles in at their own pace.

Welcome home, Putra Mas! Asian Elephant completes epic cross-country journey

Note the words 'founding herd' (or group) it's used more than once. Indicates an intention to go further...

 

[Zoofan15]

Just to play Devil's advocate, it is very common for volunteers to just share incorrect information, or guests to misinterpret something they've been told. I've witnessed it at almost every zoo I've been to and I'm sure it's the same in Australia
Perhaps they meant no breeding before Putra Mas was onsite? But that feels like a stretch given the context.

It is strange, honestly, given that Monarto has been riding this "multigenerational herd" thing for a while now. If Pak Boon had been retired, knowingly, years ago why would they state intent to breed from her? Furthermore, why wouldn't they have made an effort to bring in a viable cow like Thong Dee, especially given that Pak Boon and Tang Mo already know her and would likely be happy to reunite.

I’m sure Monarto Safari would have been thrilled to have acquired Thong Dee, Pak Boon and Tang Mo. It would have been a sure fire way to establish a cohesive herd (given they all know each other) and would have given them two viable cows.

However, it’s worth noting that as a new holder, Monarto basically took what it could get/was offered and this project was initially based around providing homes for Auckland and Perth’s elephants. Though I hope Werribee would have made room for Putra Mas in the interest of retaining such a genetically bull, clearly no other facility wanted Burma and Permai. Monarto did Auckland and Perth a massive favour considering the limited options this would have then left them with.

Only after this was arranged were Monarto offered Pak Boon and Tang Mo, for the simple reason they were their surplus and swapping/changing them with the Dubbo herd would have caused disruption (with Anjalee now on site/integrated).

 

[Zoofan15]

Fair points as well! Ultimately we're just going to have to wait and see. There have been so many news reports, visitor reports, etc stating different things, it's really hard to be certian. I could've sworn I had seen a post stating Pak Boon was still reproductive and would be bred, but with so much buzz about the transfers I cannot even remotely remember when or where that would've been.
The biggest thing that will be disappointing if Pak Boon doesn't breed is Putra Mas' chances of breeding naturally. While I myself have been quite skeptical of him succeeding, it would've been incredibly ideal to give him that chance. Assuming they don't bring in more cows for years yet - if ever - he's stuck contributing via AI (which the region as a whole has begun to stray away from).

It’s interesting you mention this as irregardless of whether pregnancy is achieved, we should get a clear indication of whether Putra Mas shows any inclination towards mounting the cows.

Zoos Victoria (and the region as a whole) consider natural breeding to be preferable to AI; and if there’s belief Putra Mas can successfully breed, I see no reason they wouldn’t consider him as a future breeding bull. The current plan is for Luk Chai to sire their next cohort of calves, but from there, a new breeding bull will be needed; and if Putra Mas has sired no calves in that time, then there could well be a push to get calves from him.

His age could work for and against him in this scenario. He’ll be in his mid-40’s by then, but the seven hour trip would be only slightly longer than the trip taken by the elderly Heman from Taronga to Dubbo; and the crating/unloading of Putra Mas to get to Monarto couldn’t have gone better.

If Monarto have failed to breed during this time, it could then pave the way towards them establishing a bachelor herd with Putra Mas exchanged for Luk Chai, Roi-Yim and a bull or two from the third cohort (depending on Monarto’s capacity).

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

It’s interesting you mention this as irregardless of whether pregnancy is achieved, we should get a clear indication of whether Putra Mas shows any inclination towards mounting the cows.

Zoos Victoria (and the region as a whole) consider natural breeding to be preferable to AI; and if there’s belief Putra Mas can successfully breed, I see no reason they wouldn’t consider him as a future breeding bull. The current plan is for Luk Chai to sire their next cohort of calves, but from there, a new breeding bull will be needed; and if Putra Mas has sired no calves in that time, then there could well be a push to get calves from him.

His age could work for and against him in this scenario. He’ll be in his mid-40’s by then, but the seven hour trip would be only slightly longer than the trip taken by the elderly Heman from Taronga to Dubbo; and the crating/unloading of Putra Mas to get to Monarto couldn’t have gone better.

If Monarto have failed to breed during this time, it could then pave the way towards them establishing a bachelor herd with Putra Mas exchanged for Luk Chai, Roi-Yim and a bull or two from the third cohort (depending on Monarto’s capacity).

The primary concern in my mind was that it took him a long time to successfully crate train. While of course he did, thankfully, achieve that; it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Monarto would hope to keep him onsite to prevent such troubles from occuring a second time once he has settled in.
As he ages, he may very well become even less willing to cooperate with a transport.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

If Monarto have failed to breed during this time, it could then pave the way towards them establishing a bachelor herd with Putra Mas exchanged for Luk Chai, Roi-Yim and a bull or two from the third cohort (depending on Monarto’s capacity).

I am still of very firm belief that Monarto is of highest value as a breeding facility, no matter how much the region would benefit from bachelor holding.
While Dubbo likely won't need to undergo a split anytime soon, Werribee will likely be in a position where their two matrilineal groups will start to separate sooner rather than later. Assuming a second cohort is born 2027-2028, Dokkoon's group will have six members and Num Oi's will have 4 (including Kulab since they are so close). Ideally Monarto would be able to take that strain off of Werribee so that they wouldn't have to limit breeding or worry about managing seperate cow groups.

Truth be told, it would've been much more ideal for some city zoos to transition their elephant exhibits into small bachelor holding. Despite Australia's shift towards open range zoos it would certianly have been a help.

 

[Yassa]

Melbourne could easily use their elephant facility for a bull group with 3-4 bulls. With 3 paddocks and 2 barns, they have the space and this would be so important to allow more breeding… Taronga‘s facility is too small, but Melbourne could and should continue with elephants!!!

 

[Zoofan15]

Truth be told, it would've been much more ideal for some city zoos to transition their elephant exhibits into small bachelor holding. Despite Australia's shift towards open range zoos it would certianly have been a help.

I agree. Sydney Zoo have an excellent set up for their two bachelor bulls and if they redeveloped their cow paddocks to bull containment standard, Auckland and Taronga could have held a minimum of two bulls each. Melbourne with the three paddocks and two barns could have easily held 3-4 bulls.

I’m very much in favour of the transition to open range zoos for the housing of multigenerational herds of females; but for obvious reasons, bulls are predominantly housed alone or in small bachelor groups within a single exhibit for most of the time. They might as well be housed with another bull or two in a bachelor facility.

I acknowledge there’s a benefit to bulls growing up in a multigenerational herd and observing mating behaviour etc. but there’s no reason that can’t be undertaken, with these bulls then transferring out to a city zoo. Imagine the space that would be freed up at Dubbo if they transferred Pathi Harn and Sabai to Taronga Zoo; while Werribee could transfer Luk Chai, Roi-Yim and any bachelor bulls from the next cohort to Melbourne, leaving them with an entirely female herd ahead of the arrival of their next breeding bull.

 

[Zoofan15]

I am still of very firm belief that Monarto is of highest value as a breeding facility, no matter how much the region would benefit from bachelor holding.
While Dubbo likely won't need to undergo a split anytime soon, Werribee will likely be in a position where their two matrilineal groups will start to separate sooner rather than later. Assuming a second cohort is born 2027-2028, Dokkoon's group will have six members and Num Oi's will have 4 (including Kulab since they are so close). Ideally Monarto would be able to take that strain off of Werribee so that they wouldn't have to limit breeding or worry about managing seperate cow groups.

I see a lot of sense in transferring one of Werribee’s matrilines to Monarto Safari Park in the event Pak Boon fails to produce female offspring; though we’re talking decades away for this to happen.

Monarto’s current cows are aged 43, 36, 33 and 26 years old. Assuming lifespans of 50-60 years and at least two members of this herd should be around for the next 20-30 years. After the challenges of integrating the four cows they have, I doubt they’d be in any rush to compound this with the addition of new cows (even 10 years down the line when hopefully things are long settled).

That’s no bad thing however. Werribee have a cohesive herd that thrive on each other’s company. There’s a minor divide between Dokkoon’s line and Kulab/Num-Oi, but that currently presents as a preference of company and Kulab spends a reasonable amount of time with all adults in the herd. Once Num-Oi has an adolescent/adult daughter, this divide may widen; but even if it deteriorated to conflict, Werribee have the capacity to manage two female herds.

 

[Zorro]

I am still of very firm belief that Monarto is of highest value as a breeding facility, no matter how much the region would benefit from bachelor holding.
While Dubbo likely won't need to undergo a split anytime soon, Werribee will likely be in a position where their two matrilineal groups will start to separate sooner rather than later. Assuming a second cohort is born 2027-2028, Dokkoon's group will have six members and Num Oi's will have 4 (including Kulab since they are so close). Ideally Monarto would be able to take that strain off of Werribee so that they wouldn't have to limit breeding or worry about managing seperate cow groups.

Truth be told, it would've been much more ideal for some city zoos to transition their elephant exhibits into small bachelor holding. Despite Australia's shift towards open range zoos it would certianly have been a help.

Your quite right I also believe that Monarto should become a breeding facility we unlike America only have the 2 zoos breeding elephants of any species, Werribee has the best state of the art exhibit/complex by far which is looking good for the future, Unfortunately Dubbo has not invested (and does not appear to be doing anything to fix it) enough in its elephant needs in which now they have retired two adult cows from breeding so they have infect are running at half steam and that it, that what the future looks like unless Monarto form a 3rd breeding herd.
The USA and Europe have a large population compared to Australia's very small breeder base and overall tiny numbers in comparison.

 

[Zoofan15]

Your quite right I also believe that Monarto should become a breeding facility we unlike America only have the 2 zoos breeding elephants of any species, Werribee has the best state of the art exhibit/complex by far which is looking good for the future, Unfortunately Dubbo has not invested (and does not appear to be doing anything to fix it) enough in its elephant needs in which now they have retired two adult cows from breeding so they have infect are running at half steam and that it, that what the future looks like unless Monarto form a 3rd breeding herd.
The USA and Europe have a large population compared to Australia's very small breeder base and overall tiny numbers in comparison.

In the event Pak Boon fails to produce surviving offspring, the regional population will only descend from five female founders:

0.1 Porntip (1992)
0.1 Dokkoon (1993)
0.1 Thong Dee (1997)
0.1 Num-Oi (2001)
0.1 Anjalee (2006)

If Thong Dee has been retired after two sons, then that’s only four cows who either have a matriline (or a chance of building one up); with only one of those four containing a daughter over 15 years of age (elephants under 15 being particularly vulnerable to EEHV).

As you and others have identified, it would be beneficial to have a cohort of calves at Werribee sired by Putra Mas (even if it’s via AI) to increase genetic diversity in their herd. Two of their breeding cows are unrelated founders, but their latest daughters are half-siblings via Luk Chai. Having Putra Mas sire the cohort between the two sired by Luk Chai would give multiple options for breeding down the line and potentially eliminate the need to bring in an additional bull.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

Are there any open range facilities or larger zoos in Australia that could open up as potential holders in the future? With three established matrilines, a fourth likely to develop and a potential 5th if Pak Boon breeds, surely more than 2 breeding facilities will be required to allow individual family groups to grow and provide space for surplus bachelors.

 

[Swanson02]

Just to play Devil's advocate, it is very common for volunteers to just share incorrect information, or guests to misinterpret something they've been told. I've witnessed it at almost every zoo I've been to and I'm sure it's the same in Australia
Perhaps they meant no breeding before Putra Mas was onsite? But that feels like a stretch given the context.

It is strange, honestly, given that Monarto has been riding this "multigenerational herd" thing for a while now. If Pak Boon had been retired, knowingly, years ago why would they state intent to breed from her? Furthermore, why wouldn't they have made an effort to bring in a viable cow like Thong Dee, especially given that Pak Boon and Tang Mo already know her and would likely be happy to reunite.

I was told in February by one of the old volunteers that they won't be breeding and Monarto was for "retirement" she related it to herself. I believe the volunteers have been told to keep it under wraps in case any breeding doesn't occur. I had a chat to an actual keeper and he stated Monarto would attempt breeding. Imo Monarto won't announce if they are a breeding facility until/if Pak Boon gets pregnant

 

[Zorro]

I was told in February by one of the old volunteers that they won't be breeding and Monarto was for "retirement" she related it to herself. I believe the volunteers have been told to keep it under wraps in case any breeding doesn't occur. I had a chat to an actual keeper and he stated Monarto would attempt breeding. Imo Monarto won't announce if they are a breeding facility until/if Pak Boon gets pregnant

That would make a lot of sense

 

[Zoofan15]

Are there any open range facilities or larger zoos in Australia that could open up as potential holders in the future? With three established matrilines, a fourth likely to develop and a potential 5th if Pak Boon breeds, surely more than 2 breeding facilities will be required to allow individual family groups to grow and provide space for surplus bachelors.

Australia has three open range zoos (Werribee, Monarto and Dubbo), all of which now hold Asian elephants. The only other open range zoo in the region is Orana (New Zealand), but due to their financial difficulties of late, I don’t envisage them acquiring elephants anytime soon.

Frustratingly, Australia Zoo are playing their own game so to speak by holding Sumatran elephants. They would have otherwise been the next best bet for a breeding herd.

From here, there’s only really a prospect of bachelor facilities within Australia. Mogo would be the most likely in my opinion, but even then, it’d be a stretch.

Long term, there’s three options:

1. Heavily restrict breeding, with Dubbo and Werribee accomodating their own surplus.

2. Export surplus Australian bred bulls (Sabai and Roi-Yim both being prime candidates).

3. Transition Monarto into a bachelor facility; or hope for a new (bachelor) holder e.g. Mogo.

 

[Zoofan15]

I was told in February by one of the old volunteers that they won't be breeding and Monarto was for "retirement" she related it to herself. I believe the volunteers have been told to keep it under wraps in case any breeding doesn't occur. I had a chat to an actual keeper and he stated Monarto would attempt breeding. Imo Monarto won't announce if they are a breeding facility until/if Pak Boon gets pregnant

That seems likely and there could realistically be two reasons for this:

1. Whether Putra Mas and Pak Boon can breed is an unknown with numerous hurdles to the process. They don’t want to advertise something they’re unable to pull off and disappoint the public if/when it fails. If they have something to announce (i.e. a pregnancy several months in), they’ll cross that bridge when they come to it and announce it then. I kind of relate this to a transfer, which as we know can and do fall through. For this reason, many zoos don’t announce it until it’s happened.

2. Zoos SA want the focus to be on them opening a 14ha elephant complex. They want the public to enjoy what they’ve spent millions providing for them instead of focussing on what the complex lacks compared to national competitors (i.e. an elephant calf). From a tourism perspective, they want to get as many visitors through the door as they can to see their new complex. If anyone’s on the fence over visiting now, they don’t want them delaying said visit on the basis they can see it ‘all in one’ once a calf is born (if they dangle the carrot one one being born in 2-3 years).

 

[Zorro]

Two things that could of made a difference in the overall elephant breeding in this country is if the Perth zoo had went ahead with its plan to open an open range zoo outside of Perth and became another holder, It appears they even had the land chosen for it but then that plan died. The other would have been if Australia zoo had on obtained the same sub species as the rest of the country instead of going with the Sumatrans, even with this they never obtained a bull perhaps never will