Australasian Sumatran Tiger Population

[Zoofan15]

From the Auckland news thread discussion;

I think Orana was quite keen on keeping Reggie knowing he was quite a valuable male - and was therefore guaranteed to receive a breeding recommendation. As we know recommendations are difficult to come by these days.

Anyhow, it's great that Reggie will finally have the opportunity to breed. At nine years old, he isn't getting any younger and being the valuable male that he is, he needs time on his side. He'll hopefully soon have the opportunity to sire countless litters.

It's possible that the lack of current breeding recommendations by the region as a whole is taking into account these future pairings who will likely have more than one litter, and therefore there'll likely be a good surplus.

I heard similar regarding Orana wanting to retain Reggie. As we know, it’s very much a consultative process and their wishes were clearly considered. The only downside is it duplicated the match at Adelaide Zoo.

With Reggie now receiving a mate, that leaves Taronga Zoo and Australia Zoo as the top candidates for receiving mates for their tigers from the next litter of Ramah and Zayana. The Taronga siblings will be seven before Auckland’s prospective cubs are even born, so I suspect this was the rationale behind retained Pemanah at Taronga Zoo. As a male, he’ll have a longer reproductive life than his sister who will be at least 10 years old before a mate can be sourced.

Australia Zoo are arguably in the same scenario, albeit with females a year young. My guess is Taronga would take preference for receiving a female; and if there wasn’t a second female for Australia Zoo, they’d consider acquiring a male to attempt breeding with their (by then) 9-10 year old females.

Alternatively, Zayana may well transfer to one of these facilities as per what Auckland Zoo told me about being open to transferring her out (as opposed to Ramah who would be retained long term).

 

[Jambo]

I heard similar regarding Orana wanting to retain Reggie. As we know, it’s very much a consultative process and their wishes were clearly considered. The only downside is it duplicated the match at Adelaide Zoo.

With Reggie now receiving a mate, that leaves Taronga Zoo and Australia Zoo as the top candidates for receiving mates for their tigers from the next litter of Ramah and Zayana. The Taronga siblings will be seven before Auckland’s prospective cubs are even born, so I suspect this was the rationale behind retained Pemanah at Taronga Zoo. As a male, he’ll have a longer reproductive life than his sister who will be at least 10 years old before a mate can be sourced.

Australia Zoo are arguably in the same scenario, albeit with females a year young. My guess is Taronga would take preference for receiving a female; and if there wasn’t a second female for Australia Zoo, they’d consider acquiring a male to attempt breeding with their (by then) 9-10 year old females.

Alternatively, Zayana may well transfer to one of these facilities as per what Auckland Zoo told me about being open to transferring her out (as opposed to Ramah who would be retained long term).

I'm quite certain that in the event that Ramah and Zayana's next litter contains a daughter, she'll end up heading to Taronga to pair with Pemanah. Cahya will presumably be transferred to Orana early next year, so Ramah and Zayana could hopefully welcome their next litter by next years end; meaning it'll likely only be a few years before Taronga can acquire a mate for Pemanah.

As you say, Australia could go both ways ie. trying with a male from Ramah and Zayana's next litter, although preferably it would be a female. In any case, I'd like to see Australia acquire a new tiger/s from Indonesia. New founders into the regional/global population would be great!

Depending on the size of Ramah and Zayana's next litter, they could end up giving Ramah and Zayana another recommendation. But if they have a litter of three or four cubs, I think there's a reasonable chance that they would end up being re-paired. By the time Zayana's next litter matures, she'll be about ten, so re-pairing her (accounting for the time it would take to move and introduce), could be risky.

 

[Zoofan15]

Destinations Confirmed for US Exports

Thank you to @Jambo for confirmation the receiving facilities for the US exports are as follows:

1.0 Ketambe (2022) - Zoo Miami
0.1 Susu (2022) - San Antonio Zoo

Ketambe and Susu’s departure follows on from Mawar’s export to the US earlier this year (from Taronga Zoo) and will leave Adelaide Zoo with 1.2 Sumatran tigers (the parents and littermate of Ketambe and Susu).

 

[Jambo]

It’s great to see they’re exporting them young (they turn three years old in December), which will maximise the use the North American region can make out of them. The Taronga export was six years old by the time her export was arranged.

Within the year, we can likely expect Marni (the sibling remaining at Adelaide) to be living separately from her mother, so Adelaide will surely welcome the opportunity to free up some space. It’ll be some time before their third tiger exhibit is built, during which time Marni may even transfer out depending on the future plans of the breeding programme (and which holders with ageing tigers will be left in deficit during that time).

I imagine Adelaide will still attempt to keep Marni with her mother in the mean time as it appears the cubs are still living with mum as of now amicably.

A third exhibit is a priority for Adelaide, and I'd be surprised if we reach this decades end without one completed. It was supposed to be completed around this time per the 2023 masterplan addendum.

Best case scenario, mother and daughter can cohabit together for the meantime, however worst case Adelaide would have to rotate them on/off display. I don't know whether their current facilities can accommodate this, but otherwise if not, Adelaide would have to look at transferring out one of their tigers (I'd assume Delilah) to another facility.

 

[Zoofan15]

I imagine Adelaide will still attempt to keep Marni with her mother in the mean time as it appears the cubs are still living with mum as of now amicably.

A third exhibit is a priority for Adelaide, and I'd be surprised if we reach this decades end without one completed. It was supposed to be completed around this time per the 2023 masterplan addendum.

Best case scenario, mother and daughter can cohabit together for the meantime, however worst case Adelaide would have to rotate them on/off display. I don't know whether their current facilities can accommodate this, but otherwise if not, Adelaide would have to look at transferring out one of their tigers (I'd assume Delilah) to another facility.

Keeping Delilah and Marni together for as long as they can cohabit would certainly be the goal.

Kirana at Hamilton Zoo tired of her 22 month old cubs to the point where they had to be separated last month; other like Cantic at Wellington tired of her cubs around 12-18 months; while Sali at Hamilton Zoo was housed with her daughter for six years until she was loaned to Auckland Zoo. Contracepting the tigress seems to help in most cases, so if they’re happy to retire Delilah from breeding, that would be their best for achieving cohesion between the two long term. Contraception isn’t desirable if a tigress is planned to breed again.

I would assume the BOH facilities at Adelaide are adequate for housing a third tiger separately, with the two on display habitats merely being a more stimulating environment - similar to the set up at Hamilton and Wellington Zoo (albeit with these two facilities having two separate den buildings).

 

[Zoofan15]

I'm quite certain that in the event that Ramah and Zayana's next litter contains a daughter, she'll end up heading to Taronga to pair with Pemanah. Cahya will presumably be transferred to Orana early next year, so Ramah and Zayana could hopefully welcome their next litter by next years end; meaning it'll likely only be a few years before Taronga can acquire a mate for Pemanah.

As you say, Australia could go both ways ie. trying with a male from Ramah and Zayana's next litter, although preferably it would be a female. In any case, I'd like to see Australia acquire a new tiger/s from Indonesia. New founders into the regional/global population would be great!

Depending on the size of Ramah and Zayana's next litter, they could end up giving Ramah and Zayana another recommendation. But if they have a litter of three or four cubs, I think there's a reasonable chance that they would end up being re-paired. By the time Zayana's next litter matures, she'll be about ten, so re-pairing her (accounting for the time it would take to move and introduce), could be risky.

I agree the litter size of Ramah and Zayana’s next litter will surely have an impact on whether they receive a subsequent breeding recommendation.

Based on the size of the regional population, I would estimate three offspring (including Cahya) would be desirable for breeding long term; with one or two additional offspring welcomed as surplus (but not required). If so, this would translate to a desire for Ramah and Zayana’s next litter to contain a minimum of two surviving cubs. It seems we both agree their future destination would likely be Australia Zoo and Taronga Zoo.

If the litter contained 0-1 surviving cubs, I’d expect a repeat breeding recommendation (this is an automatic given if the whole litter is lost). If the litter contained 3-4 surviving cubs, I’d expect Ramah and/or Zayana to be paired with other mates following that.

Wellington Zoo (who have a 15 and 18 year old) will be an interesting one to watch. My assumption is they’ll accomodate surplus from Auckland or Hamilton long term (either a fourth and fifth cub from Ramah and Zayana; or perhaps the breeding pair at Hamilton). Long term, I suspect they’ll build a third Sumatran tiger exhibit when their sun bear passes, enabling a better set up to manage breeding.

 

[Tiger91]

With the amount of aging out tigers and the breeding we are seeing, someone somewhere has to be gatekeeping who gets what.
The complete incompetence of breeding and providing sumatrans to smaller zoo's is going to mean we see a resurgence of bengal tigers and a loss of sumatran spaces. A complete failure on the SSP part.

 

[Zoofan15]

With the amount of aging out tigers and the breeding we are seeing, someone somewhere has to be gatekeeping who gets what.
The complete incompetence of breeding and providing sumatrans to smaller zoo's is going to mean we see a resurgence of bengal tigers and a loss of sumatran spaces. A complete failure on the SSP part.

I’ll admit I struggle to understand the ‘lack of surplus’ that has been quoted in response to the small privately owned zoos being unable to acquire purebred Sumatrans. The region has had a number of breeding pairs over the past decade (at Taronga, Adelaide, Hamilton etc) that could have easily been given a repeat breeding recommendation to produce a litter of cubs for these zoos to acquire.

This was essentially the case for Wellington Zoo, who bred a second litter from Jambi and Cantic to supply Hamilton Zoo with tigers.

A Sumatran tiger that is designated non-breeding is still preferable as a placeholder to a generic tiger who occupies that same space and has zero application to the regional breeding programme. Unless desexed (or otherwise unsuitable for breeding), a non-breeding tiger could be subbed in at any moment as was the case for one of the aforementioned Hamilton cubs when her older sister unexpectedly died.

 

[Jambo]

With the amount of aging out tigers and the breeding we are seeing, someone somewhere has to be gatekeeping who gets what.
The complete incompetence of breeding and providing sumatrans to smaller zoo's is going to mean we see a resurgence of bengal tigers and a loss of sumatran spaces. A complete failure on the SSP part.

This was essentially the case for Wellington Zoo, who bred a second litter from Jambi and Cantic to supply Hamilton Zoo with tigers.

A Sumatran tiger that is designated non-breeding is still preferable as a placeholder to a generic tiger who occupies that same space and has zero application to the regional breeding programme. Unless desexed (or otherwise unsuitable for breeding), a non-breeding tiger could be subbed in at any moment as was the case for one of the aforementioned Hamilton cubs when her older sister unexpectedly died.

It's been disappointing to see pushes for specific species to only be allocated to the big zoos (sumatrans aren't the only ones).

With breeding more 'managed' these days, there's no longer becoming any animals to take up those spots. Not that the SSP would care for that matter - the animals at those zoos are usually surplus and therefore of no use to the SSP anyway.

Ultimately, it would be best to see a thriving regional population and for all facilities to be involved in some way. Hopefully common ground can be sought asap, otherwise the regional population will severely decrease within the next decade.

 

[Zorro]

With the amount of aging out tigers and the breeding we are seeing, someone somewhere has to be gatekeeping who gets what.
The complete incompetence of breeding and providing sumatrans to smaller zoo's is going to mean we see a resurgence of bengal tigers and a loss of sumatran spaces. A complete failure on the SSP part.

Actually I think you are correct about the "gate keeping" one may find zoo politics is involved a lot behind the scenes, more than it should be!

 

[Zoofan15]

It's been disappointing to see pushes for specific species to only be allocated to the big zoos (sumatrans aren't the only ones).

With breeding more 'managed' these days, there's no longer becoming any animals to take up those spots. Not that the SSP would care for that matter - the animals at those zoos are usually surplus and therefore of no use to the SSP anyway.

Ultimately, it would be best to see a thriving regional population and for all facilities to be involved in some way. Hopefully common ground can be sought asap, otherwise the regional population will severely decrease within the next decade.

Actually I think you are correct about the "gate keeping" one may find zoo politics is involved a lot behind the scenes, more than it should be!

Having a surplus is beneficial to the programme as a whole as it offers a contingency for unsuccessful pairings. Full siblings can be subbed in at short notice for siblings in breeding pairs that unexpectedly die or are simply incompatible with their intended mate.

A keeper I spoke to a couple of years ago at Auckland Zoo said the intention was to expand the number of Sumatran tigers held in the region; but unless surplus are allocated to the small zoos as and when required, the regional population will inevitably dwindle as their ageing tigers pass.

Darling Downs, Mogo and Tasmania are all small zoos with ageing tigers; as well as Sydney Zoo, who has three ageing generic tigers. That’s four perfect opportunities to transfer surplus to within the next few years (in addition to main zoos such as Wellington and Dubbo).

 

[Zorro]

Having a surplus is beneficial to the programme as a whole as it offers a contingency for unsuccessful pairings. Full siblings can be subbed in at short notice for siblings in breeding pairs that unexpectedly die or are simply incompatible with their intended mate.

A keeper I spoke to a couple of years ago at Auckland Zoo said the intention was to expand the number of Sumatran tigers held in the region; but unless surplus are allocated to the small zoos as and when required, the regional population will inevitably dwindle as their ageing tigers pass.

I have no doubt what the keeper was telling you what they believed but things on other levels could move in a different direction!

 

[Tiger91]

It's been disappointing to see pushes for specific species to only be allocated to the big zoos (sumatrans aren't the only ones).

With breeding more 'managed' these days, there's no longer becoming any animals to take up those spots. Not that the SSP would care for that matter - the animals at those zoos are usually surplus and therefore of no use to the SSP anyway.

Ultimately, it would be best to see a thriving regional population and for all facilities to be involved in some way. Hopefully common ground can be sought asap, otherwise the regional population will severely decrease within the next decade.

The way things are going, as they are managed by people here. We will see this gate keeping continue for the foreseeable future. Bengal (May as well call them that, new classifications only seperate sunda and non sunda tigers essentially) will make a come back. Spots will diminish rapidly, then when the big players can no longer breed due to lack of spots and can't breed to pull in guests, they will open it back up. But then we will have to see if the smaller zoo's jump back over. Sumatrans, but bengals are larger and I dare say more popular to the public due to it. They are also much easier to import.

 

[Tiger91]

Having a surplus is beneficial to the programme as a whole as it offers a contingency for unsuccessful pairings. Full siblings can be subbed in at short notice for siblings in breeding pairs that unexpectedly die or are simply incompatible with their intended mate.

A keeper I spoke to a couple of years ago at Auckland Zoo said the intention was to expand the number of Sumatran tigers held in the region; but unless surplus are allocated to the small zoos as and when required, the regional population will inevitably dwindle as their ageing tigers pass.

Darling Downs, Mogo and Tasmania are all small zoos with ageing tigers; as well as Sydney Zoo, who has three ageing generic tigers. That’s four perfect opportunities to transfer surplus to within the next few years (in addition to main zoos such as Wellington and Dubbo).

In theory they technically have expanded there tiger holdings. Taronga and western plains have expanded holding capacity, as to has Aus zoo with the phase out of bengals. Dreamworld also seems to have more sumatrans.

Mogo might be black listed after they hybridised tho, that may have ruffled some feathers. Treating sumatrans like bengal/generics. They are under new owner ship tho.

 

[Zoofan15]

The way things are going, as they are managed by people here. We will see this gate keeping continue for the foreseeable future. Bengal (May as well call them that, new classifications only seperate sunda and non sunda tigers essentially) will make a come back. Spots will diminish rapidly, then when the big players can no longer breed due to lack of spots and can't breed to pull in guests, they will open it back up. But then we will have to see if the smaller zoo's jump back over. Sumatrans, but bengals are larger and I dare say more popular to the public due to it. They are also much easier to import.

Sadly I agree it’s likely more facilities (specifically the privately run zoos) will go into generics unless Sumatran tigers are made available to them.

Interestingly, the majority of ‘Bengal’ tigers we have in Australia have Sumatran ancestry:

5/7 generics at Dreamworld
2/2 generics at the National Zoo
2/2 generics at Ballarat Wildlife Park
3/3 generics at Sydney Zoo

They really are generics in every sense of the word.

Their purebred Sumatran ancestors are Lari, Hari and Raja, who also have purebred Sumatran descendants within the region.

 

[Zorro]

Once a few of the older singleton tigers around the country pass on I expect tiger numbers in our collections to take a nose dive

 

[Tiger91]

Sadly I agree it’s likely more facilities (specifically the privately run zoos) will go into generics unless Sumatran tigers are made available to them.

Interestingly, the majority of ‘Bengal’ tigers we have in Australia have Sumatran ancestry:

5/7 generics at Dreamworld
2/2 generics at the National Zoo
2/2 generics at Ballarat Wildlife Park
3/3 generics at Sydney Zoo

They really are generics in every sense of the word.

Their purebred Sumatran ancestors are Lari, Hari and Raja, who also have purebred Sumatran descendants within the region.

I wonder if the current person controlling the SSP has it in for the private zoos, simply because of previous hybridising of tigers. Pure conjecture but I would see it upsetting purists. In the bird world people are getting rather upset mutation birds disrupt 'pure' breeding lines, without understanding they are still our and not hybrids. So I could see a purist uncharge of the SSP gate keeping over that.

Bengals are far easier to import, more popular and not locked into breeding programs to the same degree. Dreamworld did import there last lot of white tigers in the last few years, I wouldn't be surprised to see them breed. The old bullens stock would be getting a bit inbred/long in the tooth genetics wise. So my prediction is we will see dreamworld breed from there whites and we will see some of there cubs transferred out. I just hope they don't breed to tigers that have sumatran ancestors.

 

[Zoofan15]

Once a few of the older singleton tigers around the country pass on I expect tiger numbers in our collections to take a nose dive

I just ran some stats:

Of the 41 Sumatran tigers in the region:

17 are aged 15 years or older i.e elderly (41% of the population).

7 are aged 10-14 years i.e. middle aged (17% of the population).

17 are under 10 years of age i.e pre-reproductive through to prime aged (41% of the population).

Of the 17 tigers under 10 years of age, all but four are direct descendants of Kaitlyn (Indonesian import), with one of the four that are not being her nephew.

 

[Zorro]

I wonder if the current person controlling the SSP has it in for the private zoos, simply because of previous hybridising of tigers. Pure conjecture but I would see it upsetting purists. In the bird world people are getting rather upset mutation birds disrupt 'pure' breeding lines, without understanding they are still our and not hybrids. So I could see a purist uncharge of the SSP gate keeping over that.

Bengals are far easier to import, more popular and not locked into breeding programs to the same degree. Dreamworld did import there last lot of white tigers in the last few years, I wouldn't be surprised to see them breed. The old bullens stock would be getting a bit inbred/long in the tooth genetics wise. So my prediction is we will see dreamworld breed from there whites and we will see some of there cubs transferred out. I just hope they don't breed to tigers that have sumatran ancestors.

Some might even use the term of Favouritism by some

 

[Tiger91]

I just ran some stats:

Of the 41 Sumatran tigers in the region:

17 are aged 15 years or older i.e elderly (41% of the population).

7 are aged 10-14 years i.e. middle aged (17% of the population).

17 are under 10 years of age i.e pre-reproductive through to prime aged (41% of the population).

Of the 17 tigers under 10 years of age, all but four are direct descendants of Kaitlyn (Indonesian import), with one of the four that are not being her nephew.

They were always going to spread the genetics from the sumatran imports across the region then breed them together. We will be seeing many tigers in the future with her genetics being bred together. As long as the inbreeding coefficient used doesn't get to high, they will continue to do it. Sumatrans desperately needed new blood lines.