Yes, it looks very like many other outdoor enclosures I have seen. They remain largely unused by the gorillas except when they are lured out by daily scatter feeds etc. They don't like the open aspect usually. If there are 'caves' they frequently favour them as they like the cover and protection from any wind. I often wish more zoos without the benefit of luxuriant vegetation would at least plant things like bamboo which is good cover once its established, its tough and looks the part. Might help a bit with the usage factor.
Australasian Western Lowland Gorilla Population
- Thread starter Zoofan15
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Yes, it looks very like many other outdoor enclosures I have seen. They remain largely unused by the gorillas except when they are lured out by daily scatter feeds etc. They don't like the open aspect usually. If there are 'caves' they frequently favour them as they like the cover and protection from any wind. I often wish more zoos without the benefit of luxuriant vegetation would at least plant things like bamboo which is good cover once its established, its tough and looks the part. Might help a bit with the usage factor.
It has been noted at the Port Lymph zoo in the UK that the Gorillas spend much of their time inside the huge "Gorilla Palace" preferring the covering of all the steel mesh over the complex, even though they have ready access to a large lawned outside area with a few wooden climbing frames!
Yes I think it's more so due to the fact that the gorillas like to avoid the 'elements' as much as they can. They do well in the large open indoor dayrooms, so it's likely not due to them wanting to 'hide away'.
Werribee has huts that their bachelor boys spend most of their time in. I honestly think there's only been a few times that I can remember where I haven't seen Yakini in his usual hut at the front of the exhibit. Melbourne also have a little alcove at the front of their exhibit, and this is a favoured resting spot for Otana, who's also quite sensitive to the elements.
Implementing more lush vegetation might be a way to fix it, but then again, it would also significantly reduce the visitors chances of ever seeing a gorilla! Melbourne's habitat is a good example of a habitat that is nicely planted, but not too over the top.
Please ignore the latter part of this post, it's gobbledegook but too late to delete now. Got confused with the two generations, Julia and Johari. Johari of course never having bred.
Bristol zoo put a wooden structure on their outdoor island in the form of a four way shelter, so provides protection from wind whichever direction it comes from. The gorillas use it a lot too. Twycross copied it also.
It’ll be interesting to see if this changes following Johari’s return to Melbourne Zoo.
Ordinarily I’d say there’d be some temptation to allow her to observe Mbeli mating with the new silverback and produce/rear an infant; but Johari has done all this at Taronga Zoo and if she hasn’t learnt by now (25 years old), I’m inclined to believe she never will.
Additionally, getting Johari pregnant is only half the battle. There’s no guarantee she’ll actually raise the infant is she does conceive; and for that reason, it would be advantageous for her to have the infant around the time Mbeli gives birth. Female gorillas (especially lactating females) have shown strong inclinations to adopt rejected infants and there’s the potential for Mbeli to do so here.
London’s infants in 2014/2015 were born 11 months apart and both raised by the mother of the eldest infant; though for obvious reasons, the closer the age gap the better.
[QUOTE="Zoofan15, post: ]
London’s infants in 2014/2015 were born 11 months apart and both raised by the mother of the eldest infant; though for obvious reasons, the closer the age gap the better.[/QUOTE]
As a handraised female(after those first two months) Johari is very likely to be scared to approach silverback males or allow mating. Sometimes females like her will allow younger males to mate, which I thought was what might happen at Taronga but it didn't. Of course it's a new situation now so her relationship with Otana might be different, it remains to be seen. But If they do get pregnant some handraised females can show good maternal skills, even with a first infant. You are right about the fostering issue though, it seems more commonplace than previously the case, perhaps reflecting the larger groups kept nowadays and the chances of such instances occurring. Two babies in the Netherlands zoos are being raised/adopted by females which are not their mothers, after their own birth mother died.
At London Mjuku has a strong maternal instinct and as you know, she gradually took over Effie's younger baby as well as her own, though I was never clear if or when Effie stopped being involved completely with it- or not. But this time around with the recent births in 2024, finally with her fourth baby, Effie has managed to rear it herself. I did think if she had neglected it again, Mjuku might adopt it and rear 'twins' again, but that didn't happen. But you could still see the marked difference in their treatment of their small babies, Mjuku always carrying hers and holding on to it if it crawled, while Effie was quite the opposite, the baby was allowed off her mother from very early on and Effie seemed more averse to holding her, and so more independent.
London’s infants in 2014/2015 were born 11 months apart and both raised by the mother of the eldest infant; though for obvious reasons, the closer the age gap the better.[/QUOTE]
As a handraised female(after those first two months) Johari is very likely to be scared to approach silverback males or allow mating. Sometimes females like her will allow younger males to mate, which I thought was what might happen at Taronga but it didn't. Of course it's a new situation now so her relationship with Otana might be different, it remains to be seen. But If they do get pregnant some handraised females can show good maternal skills, even with a first infant. You are right about the fostering issue though, it seems more commonplace than previously the case, perhaps reflecting the larger groups kept nowadays and the chances of such instances occurring. Two babies in the Netherlands zoos are being raised/adopted by females which are not their mothers, after their own birth mother died.
At London Mjuku has a strong maternal instinct and as you know, she gradually took over Effie's younger baby as well as her own, though I was never clear if or when Effie stopped being involved completely with it- or not. But this time around with the recent births in 2024, finally with her fourth baby, Effie has managed to rear it herself. I did think if she had neglected it again, Mjuku might adopt it and rear 'twins' again, but that didn't happen. But you could still see the marked difference in their treatment of their small babies, Mjuku always carrying hers and holding on to it if it crawled, while Effie was quite the opposite, the baby was allowed off her mother from very early on and Effie seemed more averse to holding her, and so more independent.
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Johari was placed on contraception in 2015 and remained on contraception all the time she was in Kibale’s troop, so unfortunately there was never the opportunity for her to conceive to one of the adolescent males as you describe. There was never ever any interest in undertaking AI, which may have been successful.
After Frala gave birth to Fabumi in 2015, Mbeli became obsessed with trying to take him off Frala, though she never let him. At the time, I wondered if it was an attempt at infantcide; but having learnt more about the species in the decade that’s passed, I interpret it more as her having strong maternal instincts, plus recognising the status that comes from infants.
Johari's own mother, Julia, was a good example of that. She initially raised Johari, and seemed to be doing well, although she unfortunately lost interest just a few months after her birth, and Johari had to be peer raised alongside her two male half brothers.
Romina at Bristol zoo was a (mostly) handraised female who had lived all her life in Rome Zoo with a single very humanised male and never saw any other gorillas. After she moved to Bristol Zoo she mated with the silverback Jock despite not liking him- I think he trapped her in a corner to effect that as she never had another! She gave birth in 2005 to Namoki, her only infant, who she raised perfectly with no example from any other gorilla. Much later in 2016 she also fostered another baby, Afia, whose own mother rejected her after a difficult birth- it was the first case of fostering in Europe I believe, a technique more advanced in the USA. Going back in time the very first gorilla born at Howletts was born to young female Juju who came there as a very small baby and had never seen any examples as she grew up at Howletts, but again, she raised the baby(Kijo) perfectly.
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Yes, if contracepted she obviously had no chance to get pregnant that way. The 'young male' syndrome doesn't always happen anyway- handraised female Asante at Twycross sadly never mated(afaik) with the younger mother-raised male (Lope) in their group before he was transferred to a male group.
Mbeli wanting Frala's baby would be strong maternal instinct I think. I know of more than one instance of 'kidnapping'. A complicated case at Apenheul some years ago involved two females who gave birth at the same time. The older (more dominant?) Mandji apparently stole the younger female's baby at night soon after it was born. The next day they thought she had her own 'newborn'. But the real mother was the younger female (Kisiwa I think it was). Then soon after, Mandji herself had a stillborn baby (or it died shortly after birth) and they thought she'd had twins, one live, one dead. But then the other female mysteriously didn't seem to be pregnant any more.... A later DNA test unravelled the truth, Mandji had taken Kisiwa's infant and reared it herself.
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I'm assuming Orana would've been the destination considered for Mjukuu. The zoo may as well have also transferred out Fabumi and Mwamba too, so Orana (having the facilities for two troops if needed) would've been a likely destination.
Taronga obviously needed a solution for the tensions; and sending the girls down to Melbourne eventually emerged as the best option, a win win for both facilities.
I believe that unless another couple of holders are established in the region Gorillas are going to struggle in the medium to long term, having a tiny population in a region is a real disadvantage. Unfortunately Adelaide zoos backflip was a real setback in general for the whole region, Since the region works with the EEP with the species more animals should be joining this region but it mainly appears to be largely a one way street!
Hobart's a good start - although they've still got some way to go before that dream can actually being achieved. I think the region desperately needs another breeding holder (especially if Taronga are resorting to holding just a bachelor troop). That would hopefully allow for more exchanges between all three breeding facilities.
Long term, I'd hope Taronga would invest in a new gorilla complex, allowing them to accommodate their bachelor boys and a family breeding group. Aside from them though, Darling Downs is realistically one of the only facilities I can see potentially looking at acquiring them - but I don't imagine that's in Steve's plans for anytime soon. The other being Sydney, but they are quite crammed on space at the moment and I'm not entirely sure they'd look at holding a third great ape species.
I would be surprised if Taronga did not at some stage create an African forest as they planned to, Taronga seem to like being seen as the number one zoo in the region (hence the species held only by Taronga). Also as mentioned before if/when the GiraffeOkapi IRA is done in the future It would not come as a shock to me if they appeared there in the future (but only at Taronga).
I really don't believe Darling Downs zoo would obtain Gorillas or Orangs at any point their focus seems to mainly on African plains dwelling species like Giraffe, zebras, addax and other grass eating species.
Also a large interest in smaller primates and African cat species not to mention a large reptile and bird collection plus a large range of native species. Just my view but I believe they have enough projects on the go without adding even more on top of what's happening currently!
It would have been interesting if Orana Wildlife Park had acquired the three adolescent males from Taronga’s troop. While they have two paddocks and could certainly have run two bachelor troops, I honestly believe the culture of the existing troop (a pair of males) would have been enhanced by brining in more males.
Fataki has reportedly experienced stress in the silverback role and if he relinquished this to Fuzu, he would be on the bottom of the hierarchy. Had more (younger) males been brought in, it wouldn’t have amazed me to see him concede the alpha role to his brother and settle into a middle ranking position - ahead of the adolescents; but without the stress of leading the troop.
Though Hobart Zoo acquiring gorillas came out of left field, I would consider Australia Zoo and Hunter Valley Zoo the most likely contenders for acquiring gorillas long term.
Hunter Valley Zoo are the natural choice for a bachelor facility, supporting the breeding troop at Mogo Wildlife Park. Though they have two exhibits, it’s obvious they would want to maximise space on site, while giving their lesser known sister zoo a draw card species.
Australia Zoo infamously canned their plans to acquire gorillas back in the mid-2000’s. What a boost to the region that would have been. While development progress has been slow compared to Steve’s era, they’re one of the few private facilities with the capital to make it work (another being Sydney Zoo).
Yes, all studbooks have Taronga listed as ‘Sydney’.
Sydney Zoo is a new zoo opened 2019. It’s located in Blacktown, NSW (45 minutes from Taronga).
I believe it would be only a very slim chance of Australia zoo having Gorillas almost all forward momentum stopped after Steves passing, I had recently seen a couple of (for what's its worth) media reports stating the young Robert wants to build a mega class zoo in the USA, I have no idea if there is any substance behind this, I believe there was a plan once to build a US zoo in or near Las Vegus that came to nothing.
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