North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation

Frankie_number_1_fan said:
I am aware of that, I have been involved in almost every recent discussion regarding breeding at the safari park. Respectfully, I do not need these things repeatedly stated to me when I know what is going on.
It was just previously stated that she took longer to conceive than the other cows previously, and potentially could be no longer reproductive.
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But that was never confirmed she was no longer reproductive was it?
 
HawkAlot said:
Personally, I'd love to see the park keep 2 bulls if they can...
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They do have a history of keeping two adult bulls simultaneously. Mabu and Msholo were both kept at San Diego from 2009 to 2012, and again from 2016 to 2018. It would be feasible to keep both Moose and Tendaji at the Safari park. Such a shame that Msholo never successfully sired any calves despite him having experience in natural breeding.
 
I’m not sure if this has been shared here before, but while browsing the Federal Register, I came across a breeding permit application from the White Oak Conservation Center . The application appears to be from December 2024 and includes detailed records of births and deaths within their Asian elephant herd.

On page 41, the application summarizes all births from the past five years:

Asian Elephant Elephas maximus
  • 3.5 calves born in the last five years; 1.3 survived beyond 30 days.
    • 2020: 1.0
    • 2021: 0.1
    • 2022: 0.1
    • 2023: 2.3
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We already know of four calves currently living at the facility:
  • 0.1 Masala (2021)
  • 0.1 Tikka (2022)
  • 1.0 Sammy (2023)
  • 0.1 Kumari (2023)
However, the document lists four additional births that did not survive. On page 44, it lists all deaths from the past five years, including two stillborn male calves and a female calf “euthanized due to trauma inflicted by maternal aggression.” Seven other deaths are listed, none explicitly tied to birth, but based on the numbers, the third female born in 2023 was likely among them.

Based on the data, these appear to be the calves born from 2020–2023:
  • 1.0 Stillborn (2020)
  • 0.1 Masala (2021)
  • 0.1 Tikka (2022)
  • 1.0 Sammy (2023)
  • 0.1 Kumari (2023)
  • 1.0 Stillborn (2023)
  • 0.1 Euthanized (2023)
  • 0.1 Unknown (2023)
Given the pattern of births and the fact that this application was filed in late 2024, it seems likely there are additional living calves born after this application was filed.
 
Given the number of calves from 2020–2023, it's quite possible that Casey is the sire of all eight calves born

Confirmed
  • 0.1 Masala (2021) - (Casey × Mable)
  • 0.1 Tikka (2022) (Casey × Aree)
  • 1.0 Sammy (2023) (Casey × April?)
  • 0.1 Kumari (2023) (Casey × Piper?)
April and Piper were chosen due to being the youngest of the breeding females, and seem more likely to have surviving offspring. April, having the support of her mother, Alana, while Piper had the support of her mother, Shirley, her sister Mable, and her aunt Aree.

Unconfirmed but likely
  • 1.0 Stillborn (2020) - (Casey × Angelica?)
  • 1.0 Stillborn (2023) - (Casey × Sara?)
  • 0.1 Euthanized (2023) - (Casey × Asha?)
  • 0.1 Unknown, deceased? (2023) (Casey × Angelica?)
I chose Angelica, Sara, and Asha as the possible mothers of the four calves, as it would have been only seven years after the birth of Mike, for Angelica, Sara, and Asha would have still been young enough for a first-time calf. And, it's possible that Casey was among the several deceased individuals. Hopefully, he managed to sire additional surviving calves after this application was filed.
 
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Mr.Ivory said:
Given the number of calves from 2020–2023, it's quite possible that Casey is the sire of all eight calves born

Confirmed
  • 0.1 Masala (2021) - (Casey × Mable)
  • 0.1 Tikka (2022) (Casey × Aree)
  • 1.0 Sammy (2023) (Casey × April?)
  • 0.1 Kumari (2023) (Casey × Piper?)
April and Piper were chosen due to being the youngest of the breeding females, and seem more likely to have surviving offspring. April, having the support of her mother, Alana, while Piper had the support of her mother, Shirley, her sister Mable, and her aunt Aree.

Unconfirmed but likely
  • 1.0 Stillborn (2020) - (Casey × Angelica?)
  • 1.0 Stillborn (2023) - (Casey × Sara?)
  • 0.1 Euthanized (2023) - (Casey × Asha?)
  • 0.1 Unknown, deceased? (2023) (Casey × Angelica?)
I chose Angelica, Sara, and Asha as the possible mothers of the four calves, as it would have been only seven years after the birth of Mike, for Angelica, Sara, and Asha would have still been young enough for a first-time calf. And, it's possible that Casey was among the several deceased individuals. Hopefully, he managed to sire additional surviving calves after this application was filed.
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For those of us following outside the USA would the now White Oak herd be the largest and most productive herd in North America!
 
Zorro said:
For those of us following outside the USA would the now White Oak herd be the largest and most productive herd in North America!
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In terms of Asian elephants I believe they hold the most amount of individuals, with only a small handful still being at the Ringling Campus. Last I am aware of they're at around 32 elephants. This would be excluding any hypothetical calves born this year or last.
Breeding should be fairly steady given the sheer amount of bulls onsite. They shouldn't have an issue producing many, many more calves.
 
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Frankie_number_1_fan said:
In terms of Asian elephants I believe they hold the most amount of individuals, with only a small handful still being at the Ringling Campus. Last I am aware of they're at around 32 elephants. This would be excluding any hypothetical calves born this year or last.
Breeding should be fairly steady given the sheer amount of bulls onsite. There are at least a few unrelated to each cow irrc. They shouldn't have an issue producing many, many more calves.
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To correct myself here it looks as though most of the young bulls are Charlie sons, making them related to most of the breeding cows. Casey hopefully should be able to breed for a few years yet but he's getting up there, hopefully they plan to bring in a new bull soon.
Their current bulls should be:

1.0 Vance (WILD × WILD) 1963.00.00
1.0 Casey (WILD × WILD) 1971.00.00
1.0 Osgood (Charlie × Emma) 1999.08.16
1.0 Gunther (Charlie × Mala) 2001.11.18
1.0 P.T. (Charlie × Josky) 2002.05.21
1.0 Irvin (Charlie × Alana) 2005.06.01
1.0 Barack (Doc × Bonnie) 2009.01.19
1.0 Sammy (Casey x Unknown) 01.01.2023

Would be nice to get one of these bulls out into the general population.
 
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Frankie_number_1_fan said:
To correct myself here it looks as though most of tje young bulls are Charlie sons, making them related to the breeding cows. Their current bulls should be:

1.0 Vance (WILD × WILD) 1963.00.00
1.0 Casey (WILD × WILD) 1971.00.00
1.0 Osgood (Charlie × Emma) 1999.08.16
1.0 Gunther (Charlie × Mala) 2001.11.18
1.0 P.T. (Charlie × Josky) 2002.05.21
1.0 Irvin (Charlie × Alana) 2005.06.01
1.0 Barack (Doc × Bonnie) 2009.01.19
1.0 Sammy (Casey x Unknown) 01.01.2023
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The entirety of the breeding program comes down to Shirley's matriline, with her daughters being able to mate with Casey, Osgood, and P.T, the only way I could see them continuing to grow their herd numbers is by transferring a couple new bulls.
 
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Mr.Ivory said:
The entirety of the breeding program has down to Shirley's matriline, with her daughters being able to mate with Casey, Osgood, and P.T, the only way I could see them continuing to grow their herd numbers is by transferring a couple new bulls.
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It would be interesting to see if Casey is still breeding. He thankfully got a few calves on the ground but he really didn't have too much success.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
It would be interesting to see if Casey is still breeding. He thankfully got a few calves on the ground but he really didn't have too much sucess.
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Well, one could hardly blame him for the death of at least one calf due to maternal aggression, and two of his calves being stillborn. It's a downright miracle that after over a decade of no breeding, he managed to have four surviving calves, with hopefully a few more born this year.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
In terms of Asian elephants I believe they hold the most amount of individuals, with only a small handful still being at the Ringling Campus. Last I am aware of they're at around 32 elephants. This would be excluding any hypothetical calves born this year or last.
Breeding should be fairly steady given the sheer amount of bulls onsite. They shouldn't have an issue producing many, many more calves.
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I am not up on the full scope of the whole elephant situation in the USA so I am not real sure why any elephants are still with the Ringling Campus at this point?
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
In terms of Asian elephants I believe they hold the most amount of individuals, with only a small handful still being at the Ringling Campus. Last I am aware of they're at around 32 elephants. This would be excluding any hypothetical calves born this year or last.
Breeding should be fairly steady given the sheer amount of bulls onsite. They shouldn't have an issue producing many, many more calves.
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Another interesting point I found in the document was that the facility is capable of holding 60 elephants. An eye-popping number.
 
Zorro said:
I am not up on the full scope of the whole elephant situation in the USA so I am not real sure why any elephants are still with the Ringling Campus at this point?
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They're not owned by Ringling anymore afaik, but I believe some animals were deemed unable to move due to age and/or other conditions and so they've remained on that site.

Mr.Ivory said:
Well, one could hardly blame him for the death of at least one calf due to maternal aggression, and two of his calves being stillborn. It's a downright miracle that after over a decade of no breeding, he managed to have four surviving calves, with hopefully a few more born this year.
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It is amazing that he has at least four calves on the ground, three of which are female! A shame that likely none will leave Yulee despite their sheer value. Sammy in particular would be an ideal transfer. The stillbirths aren't terribly surprising given that they very well could've been born to cows who hadn't conceived in a fair amount of years.

I will be curious to see whether they bring in a new bull. Tucker was reccomended to move there going on three years ago now, likely with the intent for him to takeover for Casey once he passed. I will say I'm not thrilled with the prospect of losing him to White Oak due to his own value, he would likely be there for many years if not for life.
 
Jaxton said:
Another interesting point I found in the document was that the facility is capable of holding 60 elephants. An eye-popping number.
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60 is incredible, I'd love to see them hit that number! I know their campus is massive, but it would surely help their capacity by offloading a few of those bulls.

Osgood and P.T. especially I would love to see moved elswhere since they are either their mother's only surviving offspring or only reproductive offspring (unless either is castrated? I can't recall). Despite Charlie's representation, those are underutilized wildborn genes! Though at this point such moves are nothing but a pipe dream given how they run their program.
 
It is highly probable that the mother who fatally injured the calf was the first time mother.

I have always been under the impression that most bulls are at Ringling along with the retired old cows.

Does anyone know if White Oak manages the elephants in free contact or protected contact?
 
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