North American African Elephant Population 2025

ZCChip said:
Louie has lived with the cows in Nebraska for 4 years. No calves there until callee arrived. Then bam.

so high doubt on Louie
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While I am skeptical of Louie naturally siring a calf as well, it is important to remember that he was 14 when he arrived in Omaha and had zero experience around cows other than his mother and a non-breeding female. Callee was quite literally the first male elephant he had ever seen.

As we have seen with other bulls (notably Musi) sometimes a bull can take multiple years and multiple facilities to mature and find their way around cows, so to speak. I wouldn't write it off completely.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
While I am skeptical of Louie naturally siring a calf as well, it is important to remember that he was 14 when he arrived in Omaha and had zero experience around cows other than his mother and a non-breeding female. Callee was quite literally the first male elephant he had ever seen.

As we have seen with other bulls (notably Musi) sometimes a bull can take multiple years and multiple facilities to mature and find their way around cows, so to speak. I wouldn't write it off completely.
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Louie last I heard unless this has changed is a non behavioral bull. Vus Musi however is not a non behavioral breeding bull.
 
John Marchwick said:
Louie last I heard unless this has changed is a non behavioral bull. Vus Musi however is not a non behavioral breeding bull.
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Has the NC zoo ever explicitly stated this though? I know it is the belief of most of us on Zoochat but I can't recall anything being shared explicitly about his breeding capacity since he left Omaha going on five years ago.

I do agree given his upbringing and lack of sucess thus far that it is relatively unlikely, but unless the people who work with him have actually stated that he is a behavioral nonbreeder we can't write it off.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
Has the NC zoo ever explicitly stated this though? I know it is the belief of most of us on Zoochat but I can't recall anything being shared explicitly about his breeding capacity since he left Omaha going on five years ago.
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Some pretty credible people who are much more knowledgeable about this subject matter than I am, have stated on here before he has. @Hyak_II if I recall was one of them.
 
John Marchwick said:
Some pretty credible people who are much more knowledgeable about this subject matter than I am, have stated on here before he has. @Hyak_II if I recall was one of them.
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Yes I remember that too, but has anything been said recently? I can't find anything recent on the matter (Not unexpected to be fair, since most of us have written NC off as a done deal).
Again, I'm not saying he isn't a behavioral nonbreeder but when its been radio silence for a few years we can't say for certian at this time unless someone confirms it. He is a poorly experienced bull barely into his 20s, it is possible he figured things out even if not terribly likely.
 
John Marchwick said:
Louie last I heard unless this has changed is a non behavioral bull. Vus Musi however is not a non behavioral breeding bull.
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For clarity's sake as well, I brought up Musi because he is the telltale example of a bull needing time and a different enviornment to blossom into a mature breeding animal. He struggled at Fresno yet thrived back at the Safari Park when he had aged a bit and was presented with different cows.

Granted, he also grew up in a very different enviornment than Louie which I do acknowledge is almost certianly a factor. However I'd like to remain open-minded unless someone with further knowledge of the situation can confirm more.
 
John Marchwick said:
Louie last I heard unless this has changed is a non behavioral bull. Vus Musi however is not a non behavioral breeding bull.
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To my knowledge Louie has been seeing mounting, with very little penetration before going to NC. I have nothing to add after his move.

In the video NC posted Batir should be the female at the 50 second mark and then on the right after. You can tell this because of her front right (our left)leg moving the way it does.
 
E Maximus said:
To my knowledge Louie has been seeing mounting, with very little penetration before going to NC. I have nothing to add after his move.

In the video NC posted Batir should be the female at the 50 second mark and then on the right after. You can tell this because of her front right (our left)leg moving the way it does.
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I was really losing faith with Batir, but this is certainly looking promising! Louie comes from a wildborn bloodline (his mother was wildborn and his father is the only calf of two wildborn individuals), and his half-siblings (Tamani, Kedar, and Kirkja) all do not have calves yet and Samson (Batir's only living half-sibling) also has none, so a calf from Batir and Louie would certainly be an extremely valuable, especially if it is female!
 
Anyone heard anything on the pregnant elephant at Disney? Feeling a bit worried that the calf may have not survived since the pregnancy was announced 22 months ago (the gestation for an elephant) and about four months after mating is usually the minimum time before a pregnancy is visible. Considering how quickly Cora's birth was reported after she was born, I would expect the same with this calf.
 
Nile Hippo Expert said:
Anyone heard anything on the pregnant elephant at Disney? Feeling a bit worried that the calf may have not survived since the pregnancy was announced 22 months ago (the gestation for an elephant) and about four months after mating is usually the minimum time before a pregnancy is visible. Considering how quickly Cora's birth was reported after she was born, I would expect the same with this calf.
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probably not born yet. Elephants can go a month or two more. 22-24 months.
 
ZCChip said:
probably not born yet. Elephants can go a month or two more. 22-24 months.
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Considering pregnancy is only detectable at roundabout two months though, it would mean she would at least be 24 months pregnant at this point; which is a huge stretch and very very rare.

I still hold out hope Luna will deliver a calf this month, but as the days go by it's looking more and more like the pregnancy might not have progressed as hoped.
 
Jambo said:
Considering pregnancy is only detectable at roundabout two months though, it would mean she would at least be 24 months pregnant at this point; which is a huge stretch and very very rare.

I still hold out hope Luna will deliver a calf this month, but as the days go by it's looking more and more like the pregnancy might not have progressed as hoped.
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I read it as she was 2-3 months pregnant when they detected it? And added it to the 22 +\- mark. (Meaning 20 or so more months to go). Either way we will find out soon.
 
I believe it has already been reasonably deducted that Kianga was the remaining pregnant cow. She had an update on her pregnancy from a Disney cast member iirc after the miscarriage was revealed. That paired with the video of Luna from not long ago in which she shows very little indications of pregnancy is really making her look like the cow that miscarried last year. I haven't seen any videos, pictures of updates on either pregnancy for over a year now however.

Kianga's age is definitely against her. She is fairly old for a first time mother, it wouldn't be a terrible surprise for the calf to have been stillborn or miscarried.
I will say though that we shouldn't think 100% negatively just yet. It is very possible Disney is waiting to announce the birth due to many factors. This is only Disney's second birth in recent years, and as big-ticket facility is understandable they may want to ensure they have a stable, healthy calf before an announcement can be made.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
I believe it has already been reasonably deducted that Kianga was the remaining pregnant cow. She had an update on her pregnancy from a Disney cast member iirc after the miscarriage was revealed. That paired with the video of Luna from not long ago in which she shows very little indications of pregnancy is really making her look like the cow that miscarried last year. I haven't seen any videos, pictures of updates on either pregnancy for over a year now however.
Kianga's age is definitely against her. She is fairly old for a first time mother, it wouldn't be a terrible surprise for the calf to have been stillborn or miscarried.
I will say though that we shouldn't think 100% negatively just yet. It is very possible Disney is waiting to announce the birth due to many factors. This is only Disney's second birth in recent years, and as big-ticket facility is understandable they may want to ensure they have a stable, healthy calf before an announcement can be made.
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I found the social media post in question seemingly announcing Kianga's pregnancy. It was from early April 2024. So, plausibly, we can say that the latest time of conception was Feb 2024, but very likely earlier that. With that in mind, it's still possible she could birth this month if she conceived Jan/Feb 2024. So I guess we'll have to just wait and see. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
Nile Hippo Expert said:
Anyone heard anything on the pregnant elephant at Disney? Feeling a bit worried that the calf may have not survived since the pregnancy was announced 22 months ago (the gestation for an elephant) and about four months after mating is usually the minimum time before a pregnancy is visible. Considering how quickly Corra's birth was reported after she was born, I would expect the same with this calf.
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I have it on good authority that Luna and Kianga’s pregnancies did not result in viable calves. Luna miscarried, while Kianga’s calf did not survive past the neonatal period.
 
Elephant Enthusiast said:
I have it on good authority that Luna and Kianga’s pregnancies did not result in viable calves. Luna miscarried, while Kianga’s calf did not survive past the neonatal period.
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While that is disappointing to hear about Kianga, she did at least deliver a calf which is essential given her age. Hopefully she and Luna will be able to have more calves in the future assuming nothing was found wrong with them reproductive-wise. As first time mothers, there is of course always a risk.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
While that is disappointing to hear about Kianga, she did at least deliver a calf which is essential given her age. Hopefully she and Luna will be able to have more calves in the future assuming nothing was found wrong with them reproductive-wise. As first time mothers, there is of course always a risk.
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I do agree that whereas the current situation with both is a sad eventuality given both pregnancies did not result in live calves to primiparous females the net end result may be good over time for their reproductive status and potential. I would expect that both cows will be re-bred now and that they will in the none too distant future contribute to the new and growing African elephant population.


BTW: I have noted lately that this thread has been over run with speculation and what not claims that do not contribute to the Essentials of this thread - actual population news on African elephants.

I do believe there is a separate thread for these away from the current population thread. The last few pages especially when one is expecting news and on opening one finds it is what reproductive status an individual elephant may have or whether they are pregnant or not or even which might be ... I would say it does not make it good for reading up and unhelpful at best. I do hope we all take note and only post real time news and not speculation. Thanks for understanding ... and appreciate all valid and valuable comments!
 
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