Taronga Zoo Pak Boon Preggers

OK, folks. Speculation about the sex of prospective calves is really soo too premature!!!

I am not too up on the mechanics of statistics yet with calves by AI or non-AI. You may have a point, but there it is perhaps technical in origin rather than a real effect of AI (cannot think of the modus of operandi here so quickly). Will try and check with the AI incidences in Asian elephants sooner rather than later.

Having said that, obviously it is great news 3/4 females are now pregnant at your zoo. But seriously, if primiparous ... these females may loose their first calf (which frequently happens in primiparous females) when born.

The real ... issue or break-through if you will here ... is that Gung has been proven a natural breeder (thereby hopefully making any more AI operations somewhat obsolete).

In perspective: in most European zoos AI is only used as a last resort when a bull for some reason valuable genetically does not breed naturally. In Gung's case - given that some of the females are more aged than him - an understandable policy for now ... however, I would hope that at some point they will consider Gung for natural breeding rather (saves so much hassle and stress for the individual elephants anyway).
 
Yassa said:
We don`t know how many of the calves will survive (first-time mothers are high risk)
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Yeah I read somewhere that as much as 33.3% forst time mothers will have a stillbirth! as well as the risk of her attacking or neglecting the calf.
 
My comment about three females was not meant to be taken seriously. :p
 
yep three pregnant at Taronga, Pak Boon, Pornthip and Tong Dee.

Two at Melbourne Dokkoon and Kulab but supposedly Kulab has Twins!
 
Not sure on an exact percentage but very rare. I'd assume around a 3% chance of twins. ? :confused:
 
torie said:
do you mean that you werent serious about three of the females being pregnant or three female babys? becuase the first statment is indead true and there are three pregnant girls - Tong Dee who is due very soon, pornthip and Pak boon

Taronga Announces Third Elephant Pregnancy - Taronga Conservation Society Australia
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I mean the three babies all being female. It would be good if it happened.
The reason I say this is in the future it could be a problem to accomodate more bulls due to the limited space and the need for them to be kept alone.
 
on the flipside Boof, if all the calves born and raised are females then its going to create a bit of a nightmare with regards to long-term herd structure because there just wont be enough space to keep all the animals together as one family herd.
on the other hand the transfer of a bull calves between institutions may meet with less opposition from activists.
two important considerations to come out of this breeding program which im certain the zoos are already factoring in...
both melbourne and taronga seriously need to consider expanding their elephant habitats
AND
zoos like Australia Zoo, Perth Zoo and perhaps, and hopefully soon Auckland Zoo are running below 'capacity' thus creating space for a growing regional herd including bulls.
in the future i would not be suprised to see, if females are born as of course they will be, mother and calves split off and relocated rather than risk the potential bad press which would come from splitting herds by mother/offspring as per the EEP and SSP.
 
Do bulls have to be kept alone? Are there examples of zoos that have kept a bachelor group of two or more bulls?

The 2007 ARAZPA census shows Australia Zoo has a long-term aim of holding 3.9 Asian elephants. I know that AZ has a habit of somewhat inflating their intentions, but is that plausible one day?
 
Adult bulls can spend much if not all of their day time with the family group, that works well in many European zoos. It always depends on the individual characters, though. SOme europ. zoos keep small groups of teenage bulls - a safari park near Sevilla, Spain, has 2 groups of 3 bulls each (and the bulls in the older group are 11-12 years old). Dierenrijk Mierlo in Netherlands has 3 bulls too, but they`re still very young (age 5-7). In Cologne/Germany, a 40 year old bll lives with a 10 year old and that works great. There is not much experience yet if adult bulls (age 15+) can be kept together longterm. Time will tell, I guess.

Taronga and Melbourne both made a terrible miskae building small barns that can just hold the animals they have now, with NO space for a growing herd although they imported the Thai elephants with the intention to breed.

If AZ will ever have that many elephants- I doubt it. They have no facilities for even one bull at the moment and certainly not for 3, and where shall 9 females come from? They`ll need to import from Asia themselves or wait 20+ years until that many become availible from Melbourne and Taronga.
 
CGSwans said:
Do bulls have to be kept alone? Are there examples of zoos that have kept a bachelor group of two or more bulls?

The 2007 ARAZPA census shows Australia Zoo has a long-term aim of holding 3.9 Asian elephants. I know that AZ has a habit of somewhat inflating their intentions, but is that plausible one day?
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Also Mierlo keeps 3 young bulls.

The problem I see what zoos were concerntrating on in the first place was just to get elephants over here and breed. They didn;t really plan for future housing. But at least they will have some time to consider it. On the cases that bulls have been moved at are around 5-6 years old. And cows in their teens or erly twenties if the herd gets too big.
 
Will both Taronga and Melbourne seriously consider expanding their elephant exhibits with all of the upcoming pregnancies? Didn't Melbourne shell out $15 million to increase the size of their elephant habitat a few years ago? Taronga spent at least $40 million on their elephants, and both of those zoos have elephant enclosures that would be considered small in the United States. The good news is that the balmy weather down under allows the elephants to roam their paddocks at all hours of the day if they so choose, but once the babies start popping out then the already tiny enclosures will seem even smaller than normal. I believe that the enrichment opportunities, substrate in the barns and terrain of the paddocks are all top-notch, but in the long-term both zoos will struggle to accommodate many more pachyderms. Hopefully all of the discussion over at the Auckland Zoo will mean that in New Zealand they can get on board with elephant propagation.
 
Personally I think the idea of splitting up the founders, leaving mothers and daughters together is the best way to manage the future herds.
With Bong Soo now having four (or five) potential calves we really need to get the other two breeding more.
 
snowleopard said:
Will both Taronga and Melbourne seriously consider expanding their elephant exhibits with all of the upcoming pregnancies? Didn't Melbourne shell out $15 million to increase the size of their elephant habitat a few years ago? Taronga spent at least $40 million on their elephants,
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I think it was mostly a matter to get Thailand Authorities to let the elephants come over to Australia in the first place. I saw a doco that they was very,very sever protesting in Thailand to prevent the elephants coming over. All one guy kept saying was we specifically made new elephant exhibits the elephants will be very happy etc.
 
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