Dierenpark Emmen (Closed) Emmen Zoo news

I don't believe that Yu Zin will go to Budapest. Marjo Hoedemaker has nothing to say about elephant transfers! I heard from an elephant keeper in Emmen that they will wait and see how things are going with Yu Zin as acting leader.

Hella and Zitta were transfered to Budapest because they didn't like the new young herd of 1988. It's thinkable that they do like one singel member of it who is also much older.

The reason for mentioning Yu Zin is that she is causing some problems with Ma Palai. That's all. And those problems probably getting solved when Ma Palai respects the leadership of the much stronger Yu Zin. Yu Zin is a bit a loner but also a respectable elephant.

And what if you moved Yu Zin to another zoo. What wil happen to the herd in Emmen? Will we see fights like in Cologne?
 
I think the other females which are high in the hierarchy (Swe San Thay, Htoo Kin Aye and her daugther Mingalar) are closely bonded and/or related, so I don`t expect fights between them. And Htoo Yin Aye is the lowest in the picking order so she is very unlikely to cause problems.
 
hmmm, if Yu zin were to move. If there were a fight it most likely would be between Htoo Kin Aye and Swe San Htay if anything. But Swe San Htay's personality isn't mild on any level from what I've read. But then again she could change once there is a spot for a promotion.
So If yu zin were to move I think it would be Htoo Kin Aye who would take over. I think she is well respected for being the first mum of the herd and has had the most calves.

Poor Annabel. Wish the moat wasn't there. Then everything would probably all be hunky dory.
 
You are forgetting Ma Palai. She is already trying to get the leadership! If there is no Yu Zin she probably will go for it. And how will Htoo Kin Aye react? Ranking is not just about age, you need skills and if necessary to fight for it.

If Ma Palai is feeling strong enough to 'fight' Yu Zin, how will she react on Htoo Kin Aye?
 
UntBwe said:
I don't believe that Yu Zin will go to Budapest. Marjo Hoedemaker has nothing to say about elephant transfers! I heard from an elephant keeper in Emmen that they will wait and see how things are going with Yu Zin as acting leader.

Hella and Zitta were transfered to Budapest because they didn't like the new young herd of 1988. It's thinkable that they do like one singel member of it who is also much older.

The reason for mentioning Yu Zin is that she is causing some problems with Ma Palai. That's all. And those problems probably getting solved when Ma Palai respects the leadership of the much stronger Yu Zin. Yu Zin is a bit a loner but also a respectable elephant.

And what if you moved Yu Zin to another zoo. What wil happen to the herd in Emmen? Will we see fights like in Cologne?
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I would not question Marjo's credibility in this. It's clear that there is a discussion on which elephant move to where and as Sammy and Alexander are involved, he probably is part of that discussion.

Two things are clear (to me): (1) Sammy still will not be up to his task going back to Amersfoort. They tried getting Bangka pregnant by him but that didn't work out. He needs some more years before returning to Amersfoort successfully. And as Amersfoort is now aiming for a breeding herd, keeping Alex - who is very popular with all the ladies - is a very good option.
(2) Emmen currently has problems in the herd hierarchie, so maybe something needs to happen there. They might need to remove one of the breeding females in order to return peace.

Another thing not mentioned is that Budapest has completely renewed his elephant enclosure in order to be able to house a breeding herd. They wouldn't do so without an indication from the EEP holder that they would receive a breeding female. Since there are not many available breeding females around which would qualify (I mean: which aren't in a stable breeding situation) ......

I think that the current discussion (between the zoos) is part of a bigger picture - one we might not be able to grasp completely.
 
UntBwe said:
You are forgetting Ma Palai. She is already trying to get the leadership! If there is no Yu Zin she probably will go for it. And how will Htoo Kin Aye react? Ranking is not just about age, you need skills and if necessary to fight for it.

If Ma Palai is feeling strong enough to 'fight' Yu Zin, how will she react on Htoo Kin Aye?
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That's the first incident I've heard of where a female significantly younger is challenging the older female for Matriach. And also the fact that her mother is in the herd. Just seems strange to me. Then again like in humans the mother could not be very confident, whilst her daughter might want to run for presidency?
 
You forget that we're talking about a zoo situation which is not a normal one. In the wild Ma Palai would be an elephant who is causing a split up of the herd and starts her own one with one or two members of the herd she's leaving. This is not unusual. But in the zoo she can not force to split up the herd so she is in a very difficult situation. If someone has to leave perhaps she is!

I know that the policy of Emmen is to let the mothers with their daughters always together but sometimes you have to deal with individuals who are not doing as expected. I think the zoo has to watch Ma Palai very careful and think about this situation.
 
I see. Could anything change this particular situation? Say if Ma Palai were to give birth to a calf? I've read that Births in an elephant's herd can dramtically change hierachy. But then again in this particular it is unlikely as Ma Palai is already challenging and Yu Zin is a 3 time mother. Is Ma Palai well respected in the herd?
I read somewhere that as well as Ma Ya Yee she could be possibly pregnant. Do you know of this Untbwe? If so when is the calf due?
 
Where does the information come from that Ma Palai is challenging Yu Zin for leadership? I don`t think that is correct - from what I have been told, Ma Palai is not a problem at all and Yu Zin is going after her without a reason (at least none we humans can see). If it were indeed Ma Palai who was the troublemaker (and not Yu Zin), then the logical decision would be to move Ma Palai, Htoo Yin Aye and Ananda instead of Yu Zin. So I really don`t think that`s true.
 
dragon(ele)nerd said:
I read somewhere that as well as Ma Ya Yee she could be possibly pregnant. Do you know of this Untbwe? If so when is the calf due?
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Yes she is very pregnant (the baby is visibly moving). As they don't perform tests in Emmen, they don't know for sure, but it could be in the coming weeks / month.
 
Yassa said:
Where does the information come from that Ma Palai is challenging Yu Zin for leadership? I don`t think that is correct - from what I have been told, Ma Palai is not a problem at all and Yu Zin is going after her without a reason (at least none we humans can see). If it were indeed Ma Palai who was the troublemaker (and not Yu Zin), then the logical decision would be to move Ma Palai, Htoo Yin Aye and Ananda instead of Yu Zin. So I really don`t think that`s true.
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Its a good idea to move those 3 out of the herd, they would make a nice family group for somewhere, in a similar way to the Dublin elephants from Rotterdam. However that means emmen could loose 2 potential breeding females...

I would like to see that happen myself as it would create a nice new herd, resolve hierachy problems and give emmen much needed space until the new enclosure is built
 
Yassa said:
Where does the information come from that Ma Palai is challenging Yu Zin for leadership? I don`t think that is correct - from what I have been told, Ma Palai is not a problem at all and Yu Zin is going after her without a reason (at least none we humans can see). If it were indeed Ma Palai who was the troublemaker (and not Yu Zin), then the logical decision would be to move Ma Palai, Htoo Yin Aye and Ananda instead of Yu Zin. So I really don`t think that`s true.
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I have heard this from some eyewhitnesses including one of the elephant keepers! He - the keeper - also told me that they will wait en see what happens between Ma Palai and Yu Zin. Ma Palai is often looking for some help from Radza, and in one occassion Yu Zin was trying to chase away Ma Palai from the bull.

Ma Yay Yee is pregnant indeed, Ma Palai is not (latest update two weeks ago).
 
Thanks for the news Untbwe.

@ Upali: Dublin wouldn't be a bad place for the group of females to go! If they all go a long. From what I've seen the exhibit looks amazing. Though this would probably be unlikely to happen.
 
dragon(ele)nerd said:
Thanks for the news Untbwe.

@ Upali: Dublin wouldn't be a bad place for the group of females to go! If they all go a long. From what I've seen the exhibit looks amazing. Though this would probably be unlikely to happen.
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Dublin doesn't want other elephants. What they wanted all along was a small family group and this is what they have.
 
Sorry i didnt mean move to Emmen eles to Dublin, just splitting the group into small family units in a similar way. Im sure other places would die for an small actual family group, with 2 potential breeding cows and calves!
 
Emmen has tried for years to create a familygroup. Unfortunately, most of the young elephants here were males. Htoo yin aye, and htoo kin aye are the only two mothers with daughters ( ma palai, ma ya yee, mingalar oo and swe zin). These animals are a solid base for the future of the herd, so it would be a very bad idea to move any of them in my opinion. If an elephant has to be moved, I think yu zin would be the best option. Unt bwe knows more about this matter, but to my knowledge the entire herd gets along fine, and yu zin is the onliest troublemaker.
 
This morning at 07.00 local time, a young elephant was born, already for the twentieth time. The bad news however; it's probably a male again.
 
that awesome news!
don't count on that fact, keep in mind of radza's somewhat pattern, Congrats to Ma Ya Yee!
 
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