European animals in North American collections

Sun Wukong said:
Mesopotamia was never considered as part of Europe, @Otter Lord...
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Well some populations of Persian Fallow Deer used to be in Turkey and they were once introduced to some areas of Greece or something like that. I don't know my sources, but I could be wrong. I was just going under the impression of "close enough" and its a subspecies of the Fallow Deer which is a European/ Mediterranean animal.

Anyways, since we're talking about European animals and about rarity and all. I found an interesting article about European reptiles and amphibians from the IUCN site: IUCN - Europe?s amphibians and reptiles under threat - IUCN
 
Otter Lord said:
Well some populations of Persian Fallow Deer used to be in Turkey and they were once introduced to some areas of Greece or something like that. I don't know my sources, but I could be wrong. I was just going under the impression of "close enough" and its a subspecies of the Fallow Deer which is a European/ Mediterranean animal.
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These days it's generally treated as a full species, Dama mesopotamica.
 
Otter Lord said:
Well some populations of Persian Fallow Deer used to be in Turkey and they were once introduced to some areas of Greece or something like that. I don't know my sources, but I could be wrong. I was just going under the impression of "close enough" and its a subspecies of the Fallow Deer which is a European/ Mediterranean animal.
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Sorry, but I disagree with this post of yours, @Otter Lord:
1. As far as I know, Turkey was part of the native habitat of Dama dama (dama).
2. The deer in question were introduced to Cyprus.
3. "Close enough"-that's what the supporters of an EU-entry of Turkey certainly like to read...;)
4. Subspecies-see Maguari's comment.
 
Sun Wukong said:
Sorry, but I disagree with this post of yours, @Otter Lord:
1. As far as I know, Turkey was part of the native habitat of Dama dama (dama).
2. The deer in question were introduced to Cyprus.
3. "Close enough"-that's what the supporters of an EU-entry of Turkey certainly like to read...;)
4. Subspecies-see Maguari's comment.
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Oh, well I'm not from Europe and I'm not here to argue whether Turkey is a European country or not. Haha, so I can see that the Persian Fallow Deer isn't really a European animal. Regardless, its still a cool animal that I think should be in more collections...
 
Otter Lord said:
Oh, well I'm not from Europe and I'm not here to argue whether Turkey is a European country or not. Haha, so I can see that the Persian Fallow Deer isn't really a European animal. Regardless, its still a cool animal that I think should be in more collections...
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Glad to see that we found common ground.;) And yeah, it's a cool animal-and quite tasty, if I might add...:D
 
Dunno about tasty, but I bet European Fallow Deer are the only ones you can probably hunt. I'm not sure if Middle Easterners respect endangered species as far as Persian Fallow Deer are concerned.... anyway back on topic.
 
I've eaten European Fallow. And they are very tasty!
 
Some European species that do well in American zoos seem to be the black or cinereous vulture, being held by currently 21 collections, and one chick hatched at Buffalo (all according to ISIS).
Along with the white stork, currently held in 22 collections, with a chick hatched at Detroit (again ISIS)
 
Just to add to the many posts -- I agree that European species are quite rare in North American zoos, with Toronto and San Diego the only zoos with a decent representation. The reason for this, I agree, is that European animals just aren't very different from already-familiar North American animals, thus there is a severe lack of "exoticness" in European animals, and plus, they are already well protected and preserved in European zoos -- or they simply aren't at all endangered.

One interesting note: Back when I wrote my first book (1994), the North Carolina Zoo had grand designs to create separate continental sections (in addition to their already opened Africa section) for North America, Australia, Asia, South America, and .... Europe. They opened North America soon thereafter, but cost constraints have slowed down their long-range goals since then.
 
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ANyhuis said:
Just to add to the many posts -- I agree that European species are quite rare in North American zoos, with Toronto and San Diego the only zoos with a decent representation. The reason for this, I agree, is that European animals just aren't very different from already-familiar North American animals, thus there is a severe lack of "exoticness" in European animals, and plus, they are already well protected and preserved in European zoos -- or they simply aren't at all endangered.
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I do not agree on the level of threat for European species. Quite a few of our European mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish and invertebrates are endangered.

The only valid reason why European species are not better represented in US/Canada is for SSP/monitoring species purposes that an inter-regional understanding exists that EAZA/EEP concentrate on European endangered/native species and AZA/SSP on North American endangered/native species (e.g. the sole reps of a North American moose ssp. are in Emmen Zoo - one can argue that for species interest purposes their exhibition here with no robust captive population or captive-breeding programme is of little conservation/public interest value).
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From a strictly biogeographic perspective, the idea of "Europe" is non-existent anyway. It is a "continent" only in a cultural/political sense, and is (or was) populated by animals found elsewhere in Eurasia (a contiguous land mass that fits the geographic definition of a "continent."), and of course their near-equivalents in North America.

It's interesting to see the proliferation of habitat-based native species exhibits in North America (Oklahoma, Calgary, New Orleans, North Carolina, Minnesota, Colorado Springs etc.), but I'm not aware of any major European zoos developing exhibit complexes along the same line. There are certainly plenty of collections of Eurasian species in European zoos, but are any exhibited together in thematic complexes equivalent to the North American examples above?
 
I actually thought about this thread while in bed last night. I think one of the key reasons (in addition to what Kifaru said above) why there is not much emphasis on European species in American zoos is ---- perception. When Americans think of Africa, Australia, South America, and much of Asia, we think of the wild places -- the African savannah, jungles of Asia and the Amazon, and the Australian outback. But when we think of Europe, we think of cities and people, not animals. If you asked the average American to name 3 animals that live in Europe, most would probably say "Dog, cat, and horse".

Another example of perception here in America is the lack of Central American animals in our North American exhibit areas. There are excellent North American areas in North Carolina, Columbus, Minnesota, Fort Worth, Oklahoma City, Oregon, Lowry Park, Tulsa, Sedgwick County, and elsewhere. But none of these North American areas feature spider monkeys, tapirs, toucans, or any other animals from Central America. Why? Because the "perception" is that Central America is more like South America. In fact, one recent poster even argued with me that Central America is NOT even a part of North America -- which of course, it officially is.
 
Just a quick question: If you were advising the North Carolina Zoo on what animals they should feature in their (future) Europe Section, what animals would you suggest they exhibit?
 
ANyhuis said:
Just a quick question: If you were advising the North Carolina Zoo on what animals they should feature in their (future) Europe Section, what animals would you suggest they exhibit?
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Wisent, European elk, red deer, spanish lynx, chamois, mouflon and other goats/sheep, iberian wolf, european brown bear, otter, badger and wolverine, barbary apes, bearded vulture, cinerious vulture, european black and white stork, european herps featuring asps. Also polar bears and musk ox. This is off the top of my head.
 
loxodonta said:
Wisent, European elk, red deer, spanish lynx, chamois, mouflon and other goats/sheep, iberian wolf, european brown bear, otter, badger and wolverine, barbary apes, bearded vulture, cinerious vulture, european black and white stork, european herps featuring asps. Also polar bears and musk ox. This is off the top of my head.
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Aren't the only wild muskoxen left in Greenland? Also a reintroduced population in Alaska if I'm not mistaken. Geographically, Greenland would be considered North America, while politically, being a territory(?) of Denmark I guess it could be considered Europe.
 
Ituri said:
Aren't the only wild muskoxen left in Greenland? Also a reintroduced population in Alaska if I'm not mistaken. Geographically, Greenland would be considered North America, while politically, being a territory(?) of Denmark I guess it could be considered Europe.
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Because it could be considered both I find it more interesting in a Euorpean section of a zoo. Same with the polar bear.
 
ANyhuis said:
Just a quick question: If you were advising the North Carolina Zoo on what animals they should feature in their (future) Europe Section, what animals would you suggest they exhibit?
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I would stick to ungulates and birds to enhance North Carolina's impressive collection and those are the most endangered groups of European animals.
 
loxodonta said:
Wisent, European elk, red deer, spanish lynx, chamois, mouflon and other goats/sheep, iberian wolf, european brown bear, otter, badger and wolverine, barbary apes, bearded vulture, cinerious vulture, european black and white stork, european herps featuring asps. Also polar bears and musk ox. This is off the top of my head.
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Just a quick response: I would think they would only want to display animals that they are not already exhibiting (over in their North American section). So that would eliminate the polar bears, otters, and (I think) badgers. Also, would the European versions of brown bear and bison (wisent) be all that different from the North American versions they already have? I'm not sure, but I think some of those vultures might be in their African section.
 
European badgers are EXTREMELY different from American badgers both in looks and behavior. Wisent are also quite distinctive from plains bison (though I have heard taxonomists who lump them in the same species as Bos bison) Otters are a distinct species from river otters, though the physical differences are not that great. I think in cases where some of those animals are already in other sections of the zoo (ie vultures, though I don't think that NC has Cinereous vultures anywhere) it would be rather interesting/educational/different/fun to place those animals in a European context. It would help change perceptions of European wildlife in North America. For example did you know there are golden jackals in Europe?
 
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