Sun Wukong
Well-Known Member
@NZ Jeremy: Very interesting-thanks!
Why Are Aquariums So Expensive?
- Thread starter snowleopard
- Start date
NZ Jeremy
Well-Known Member
@CGSwans, I don't think it couldn't be used for tropical tanks in its entirely, maybe some of the same principles... Although heating the water would use plenty of energy and water changes would probably be required I think if Tropical tanks were the only type of tank...
The idea is to move away from providing a sterile tank (a large public aquarium tank is kind of like an operating theatre) with pumped and filtered sea water into replicating the marine environment inside a building and there is no reason why tropical tanks couldn't be included in the system, in fact the more "environments" you include the closer you can replicate nature...
For example (the arrows represent pumps, pipes and water effects):
Bacteria sump in complete darkness
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| (Oxygenate and cool water)
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Arctic/Antarctic tank
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Kelp tank
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Tidal/wetland tanks (very important as it acts as huge waste sink)
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Deep sea tank (this would hold the large fish and sharks, although less than usual)
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|(Heat water)
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Tropical tank
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Back to original Bacteria "dark" sump tank...
If you compare this to typical large scale aquariums:
Ocean
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\/
Filter
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\/
Tank
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\/
Ocean
Obviously a typical aquarium's system is simpler but the effort and power used is huge...
Does that make a bit more sense..?
The idea is to move away from providing a sterile tank (a large public aquarium tank is kind of like an operating theatre) with pumped and filtered sea water into replicating the marine environment inside a building and there is no reason why tropical tanks couldn't be included in the system, in fact the more "environments" you include the closer you can replicate nature...
For example (the arrows represent pumps, pipes and water effects):
Bacteria sump in complete darkness
|
| (Oxygenate and cool water)
\/
Arctic/Antarctic tank
|
|
\/
Kelp tank
|
|
\/
Tidal/wetland tanks (very important as it acts as huge waste sink)
|
|
\/
Deep sea tank (this would hold the large fish and sharks, although less than usual)
|
|(Heat water)
\/
Tropical tank
|
|
\/
Back to original Bacteria "dark" sump tank...
If you compare this to typical large scale aquariums:
Ocean
|
|
\/
Filter
|
|
\/
Tank
|
|
\/
Ocean
Obviously a typical aquarium's system is simpler but the effort and power used is huge...
Does that make a bit more sense..?
Last edited:
Makes more sense, yeah.
So the only water lost is through evaporation?
And in theory this could apply as much to a twenty million litre system as to a 3,600 litre one? Do all the tanks have to be the same size? Or could the antarctic, kelp and tidal tanks function as 'thoroughfares' for the water to travel from the biological sump to the deep sea and reef tanks?
Here in Australia the only large-scale aquarium that doesn't source its water from the sea directly adjacent to it is Melbourne (they truck water from the Port Phillip Bay heads, which must be a considerable cost). If water can be conserved, along with power, in this system then that makes public aquaria potentially an option for inland cities like Canberra (which has only the tiny and uninspiring 'aquarium' at NZA).
So the only water lost is through evaporation?
And in theory this could apply as much to a twenty million litre system as to a 3,600 litre one? Do all the tanks have to be the same size? Or could the antarctic, kelp and tidal tanks function as 'thoroughfares' for the water to travel from the biological sump to the deep sea and reef tanks?
Here in Australia the only large-scale aquarium that doesn't source its water from the sea directly adjacent to it is Melbourne (they truck water from the Port Phillip Bay heads, which must be a considerable cost). If water can be conserved, along with power, in this system then that makes public aquaria potentially an option for inland cities like Canberra (which has only the tiny and uninspiring 'aquarium' at NZA).
NZ Jeremy
Well-Known Member
Well you can design tanks and the building to limit or eliminate evoporation loss by acting as a lid just like a home aquarium... Water hits the lid, condenses and drops back into the tank/system...
Absolutely, in fact the larger the system is, the greater it's ability to avoid a "crash" as there is a greater margin for error when getting the balance between, litreage, waste, number of animals, food, plants, water temperature, piping toxins, etc...
No, the tanks can be different sizes although not as radically so as a normal aquarium, a better idea would be to vary the tank shapes while keeping the volumes pretty close to each other, i.e. a two story kelp tank and two four foot high tidal tanks with all three holding the same litreage... Obviously you would want to have a bigger deep sea tank as sharks are the main attraction and drawcard of any aquarium so maybe another bacteria "dark" sump would be needed before this tank, oxygenating the water requires an air conditioner so the more of these you have the more power you are going to use...
Exactly, all the tanks are interlinked and part of the system and act as waste sinks, all will have plants, substrate and animals that can help process the waste (like mussels, sponges etc) the tanks must be designed not just to replicate plants and the sea floor but to accomodate them while still allowing visibility for the public (otherwise you don't really have an aquarium anymore just an expensive lab..!)... If you look at Monterey Bay they are lucky enough to have water that is clean enough outside their aquarium that they can pump unfiltered water into their kelp tank (in particular) all kinds of natural animals spawn and grow in the tank (and the pipes)... This system is different from that again as all water stays in the aquarium and it adds more natural light, aims to have plankton blooms, less but more "engaged" animals (if you go to the aquarium in Leigh the fish and animals act in ways I've never seen at other aquariums, you see crabs marching around the tanks, sponges popping up and filtering away as waste passes, fish hiding in the natural plants and corals, amazing..!)...
That is part of the idea, that aquariums become more accessible to those living away from the sea...
The system of course doesn't have to be completely enclosed, if an aquarium owner was worried about a "crash" a small pipe and filter could be built out to sea and it left turned off unless the water in the tanks became too acidic, looking to do a change of a few percent of the water an hour rather than the four to eight hundred percentage changes common in current aquariums (you can see where the high power use comes from, imagine pumping a few million litres, in and out again, eight times an hour)... This dual system might be a good compromise for the first aquarium to try this...
Ok, so I'm thinking of the following.
Biological sump
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V
Antarctic tank with King and Gentoo penguins as the main display species.
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V
Trickle filter to remove penguin faeces
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V
Victorian coastal kelp forest
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V
Heat water
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V
Estuarine mangrove exhibit
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V
Deep sea exhibit - sharks, turtles
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V
Coral reef
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V
Biological sump
Is the penguin exhibit plausible or would they spoil the water too much? Also, I'm guessing for large marine mammals such as dolphins, seals and dugongs we're still looking at traditional methods, or can they be incorporated too? I reckon an aquarium that had penguin, seal, kelp forest, mangrove, dolphin, shark and coral tanks would be one of the best in the world.
Biological sump
|
|
V
Antarctic tank with King and Gentoo penguins as the main display species.
|
|
V
Trickle filter to remove penguin faeces
|
|
V
Victorian coastal kelp forest
|
|
V
Heat water
|
|
V
Estuarine mangrove exhibit
|
|
V
Deep sea exhibit - sharks, turtles
|
|
V
Coral reef
|
|
V
Biological sump
Is the penguin exhibit plausible or would they spoil the water too much? Also, I'm guessing for large marine mammals such as dolphins, seals and dugongs we're still looking at traditional methods, or can they be incorporated too? I reckon an aquarium that had penguin, seal, kelp forest, mangrove, dolphin, shark and coral tanks would be one of the best in the world.
NZ Jeremy
Well-Known Member
A penguin exhibit? Sure its plausible but again you'd need to keep far fewer animals in the same space, maybe as a retirement home for 5 - 10 elderly penguins from Melbourne or Kelly Tarlton's... You would run into the high power use problem of air con to keep the air temp cold enough for the penguins...
I'm thinking about an Antarctic/Arctic fish tank because you have to cool the water out of the sump to oxygenate it, this this type of exhibit lends itself very well to the start of the cycle...
They could be incorporated too but you'd be looking at truely massive aquariums then... I don't think anyone will be game for that size until the method is proven... There is no reason why you couldn't do what they have at Boston Aquarium which is have a seal exhibit open to the public on the wharf next to the Aquarium, the main building could be built with the new method and underwater viewing of the seals, while the seal tank is free for the public passerbys and could pump water straight from the harbour, through sand filters into the tank and back out again...
Minus the Dolphin exhibit and add a octopus exhibit like they have at Seattle Aquarium and I think you'd be right...
NZ Jeremy
Well-Known Member
I was thinking generically really... I haven't been to Melbourne Aquarium since 2004, they hadn't even begun the expansion then...
There are real parallels between where Aquariums are today and where zoos were 100 years ago...
100 years ago zoos kept lots of animals in sterile, small barred cages with concrete floors... They did this because it allowed people to see the animals easily, they were very easy to clean and safe, however they didn't lend themselves to particularly healthy or ready to breed animals... Then Hagenbeck developed his open moated zoo which brought about healthier, happier animals in more naturalistic, larger enclosures and the animals are more likely to bred...
We see the same type of aquarium enclosures that we saw in zoos 100 years ago, sterile enclosures with animals packed into them and not very likely to breed... It's going to take a pioneer like Hagenbeck with 30 - 50 million dollars to move aquarium design forward... I'm not sure it'll happen because humans can see the difference between a barred concrete enclosure and a naturalistic one while water looks like water whether its sterile or full of nutrients, in fact nutrient rich water is poorer for visibility, bad in aquaria...
There are real parallels between where Aquariums are today and where zoos were 100 years ago...
100 years ago zoos kept lots of animals in sterile, small barred cages with concrete floors... They did this because it allowed people to see the animals easily, they were very easy to clean and safe, however they didn't lend themselves to particularly healthy or ready to breed animals... Then Hagenbeck developed his open moated zoo which brought about healthier, happier animals in more naturalistic, larger enclosures and the animals are more likely to bred...
We see the same type of aquarium enclosures that we saw in zoos 100 years ago, sterile enclosures with animals packed into them and not very likely to breed... It's going to take a pioneer like Hagenbeck with 30 - 50 million dollars to move aquarium design forward... I'm not sure it'll happen because humans can see the difference between a barred concrete enclosure and a naturalistic one while water looks like water whether its sterile or full of nutrients, in fact nutrient rich water is poorer for visibility, bad in aquaria...
Yep, the progress is being made at least in husbandry.
However, it will be impossible and unnecesary to breed most of the fish and invertebrates in captivity. First, they often have very difficult life cycles (planktonic larvae etc.). Second, there is a trend to protect coral reefs as "sustainable reserves", where controlled export of fish pays for protecting habitat.
However, it will be impossible and unnecesary to breed most of the fish and invertebrates in captivity. First, they often have very difficult life cycles (planktonic larvae etc.). Second, there is a trend to protect coral reefs as "sustainable reserves", where controlled export of fish pays for protecting habitat.
filipinos
Well-Known Member
Even if this isn´t really the same as the title, it is similar. With the recent crisis, have the aquarium prices lowered, stayed the same or became more expensive?
I know that Lisbon Aquarium was 10 and became 11 Euros, and the Valencia Oceanographic
was 29 and passed to 28 if i´m correct.
I know that Lisbon Aquarium was 10 and became 11 Euros, and the Valencia Oceanographic
was 29 and passed to 28 if i´m correct.
Having worked at a small aquarium (the educational/public part of a research facility) for a couple years, I can tell you that both the electricity bill and feed bill are way higher.
In addition to the expected heaters/chillers, filters and lighting home aquariums have most aquariums pump in water directly from the ocean. We didn't at the one I worked for, but that was counterbalanced by having to collect plankton every 3 days.
That last part is a major reason for pumping in water; there are a ton of species that rely on plankton at some point in their life cycles. And many species need plankton to supplement their diet even if they can eat brine shrimp.
An example of this is pipefish. In our aquarium we had pipefish in a tank with other faster moving fish. The pipefish didn't get their fair share of brine shrimp, but were better at picking out plankton and the miscellaneous tiny creatures that caught up in a plankton net.
If you don't pump in water you are going to have to buy or breed planktonic-type food and/or be very careful with mixed species aquariums.
In addition to the expected heaters/chillers, filters and lighting home aquariums have most aquariums pump in water directly from the ocean. We didn't at the one I worked for, but that was counterbalanced by having to collect plankton every 3 days.
That last part is a major reason for pumping in water; there are a ton of species that rely on plankton at some point in their life cycles. And many species need plankton to supplement their diet even if they can eat brine shrimp.
An example of this is pipefish. In our aquarium we had pipefish in a tank with other faster moving fish. The pipefish didn't get their fair share of brine shrimp, but were better at picking out plankton and the miscellaneous tiny creatures that caught up in a plankton net.
If you don't pump in water you are going to have to buy or breed planktonic-type food and/or be very careful with mixed species aquariums.