Does Religion Have a Place In Modern Zoos?
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taun
Well-Known Member
Not just old age! Am sure it obvious but am confused.
Panthera Puss
Well-Known Member
Because nuns are sometimes nicknamed 'penguins'??
Mr Saxon
Well-Known Member
I tend to see God as a Kid who has just gotten a large model of the universe. He spends many months building it up, setting things into motion, tossing planets, stars and countless other stuff into it and putting them into place. He gets to the earth and as he is about to finish - oh whats that! - it's his favorite T.V show (Power rangers or some other mindless garbge) - He rushes away to watch it and soon forgets all about his model. For awhile, earth gets along well, the occasional mass extinction and evolution propel species further into unexplored areas and adapt them as they see fit. And then, the most brilliant and stupid creatures evolve....humans. Y - Us humans are capable of seeing beauty wherever we go, the fascination in our surroundings and the curiousity into the deep abyss of the oceans to the unseeable relems of Space. But then what do we do? We cock things up don't we? War, disease, famine, global warming, genocide, pollution, overhunting, overpopulation and the vast majority of us don't understand how to stop it, can't be bothered to find out and are just to lazy to do something. And where is our almighty god while our little earth model crumbles and destorys itself? While several hundred religions pray and offer sacrifices and go preching about him, saying he is brilliant? He's upstairs, 40 years old, arguing with his mother about why Star Trek has been taken of record! Then she retorts about him being a 40 year old virgin, still living with his mother and should get a life like his mates!
Don't mean to offend anyones religion but thats just my two cents.
Don't mean to offend anyones religion but thats just my two cents.
Look at the bright side. This means 82% of those polled did NOT believe it.
In other words, 82% know the truth (at least on that score).
Don't give up yet. That's a lot higher percentage than even 100 years ago.
Just to add...
My gut reaction is no, but I believe there is room to balance both belief systems.
Here's how I look at it. If God really did create EVERYthing -- planets, stars, us, other animals, the entire frelling MULTIverse (yes, I consider parallel universes to be a good possibility) and everything and everyone in it, AND gave His Creations free will, well...
Wouldn't it then stand to reason that He simply created everything, INCLUDING evolution, gave everything a great big shove to set it all in motion, then sat back to watch the results?
Of course, accepting theories like that would probably be pretty difficult for most fundamentalists. Heck, I doubt too many of them can accept the simple fact that WE are animals as well (more specifically, a species of Great Ape -- just ask Desmond Morris).
Once one lets go of these goofy ideas of humans being "superior," it's amazing what kind of horizons open up.
I look at it like this. We are not "superior." We are not "inferior." We, like every other living thing, simply "are."
There are probably many thousands of generations worth of mystery to unravel there, just figuring out why we all 'are.' That's good enough for me.
Anyway... Accepting theories like that also removes most (if not all) of the cause for fighting and wars based on different religious beliefs. Considering how willing so many subcultures of our species are to go to war over just such things, it seems unlikely to me that rationality will be opted for any time soon.
Happy travels.
My gut reaction is no, but I believe there is room to balance both belief systems.
Here's how I look at it. If God really did create EVERYthing -- planets, stars, us, other animals, the entire frelling MULTIverse (yes, I consider parallel universes to be a good possibility) and everything and everyone in it, AND gave His Creations free will, well...
Wouldn't it then stand to reason that He simply created everything, INCLUDING evolution, gave everything a great big shove to set it all in motion, then sat back to watch the results?
Of course, accepting theories like that would probably be pretty difficult for most fundamentalists. Heck, I doubt too many of them can accept the simple fact that WE are animals as well (more specifically, a species of Great Ape -- just ask Desmond Morris).
Once one lets go of these goofy ideas of humans being "superior," it's amazing what kind of horizons open up.
I look at it like this. We are not "superior." We are not "inferior." We, like every other living thing, simply "are."
There are probably many thousands of generations worth of mystery to unravel there, just figuring out why we all 'are.' That's good enough for me.
Anyway... Accepting theories like that also removes most (if not all) of the cause for fighting and wars based on different religious beliefs. Considering how willing so many subcultures of our species are to go to war over just such things, it seems unlikely to me that rationality will be opted for any time soon.
Happy travels.
In My view why should zoos be limited to teaching visitors about animals and conservation? why couldn't zoos educate those who want to on world culture and religion? Religion can alos be integrated into exhibits, a great example of this is on zoolex:
ZooLex Exhibit
Containing buddhist prayer flags. Culture and religion can relfect the area a species may come from and so be hihgly appropriate to include in an exhibit. There is nothing wrong with zoos giving difefrent view points and theories as each theory (or belief) could potentially be as likely as each other, as I have said before everyone's reality is different while each being equally real.
I personally beleive in evolution as it makes the most sense to me, thats not to say evolution is correct or anyless true than Hinduism, islam, Creationism etc
It stirkes me that this thread has turned mainly into a creationsit/evolution debate.
ZooLex Exhibit
Containing buddhist prayer flags. Culture and religion can relfect the area a species may come from and so be hihgly appropriate to include in an exhibit. There is nothing wrong with zoos giving difefrent view points and theories as each theory (or belief) could potentially be as likely as each other, as I have said before everyone's reality is different while each being equally real.
I personally beleive in evolution as it makes the most sense to me, thats not to say evolution is correct or anyless true than Hinduism, islam, Creationism etc
It stirkes me that this thread has turned mainly into a creationsit/evolution debate.
My answer is no. I think that zoos should be careful to be entirely secular organisations to avoid giving offence to all visitors with or without religious beliefs. Incidentally 'creationism' is not a religious belief - but an opinion held by members of several religions about a scientific theory, which I feel is equivalent to homeopathy, holocaust denial, astrology and infallible systems for winning at roulette (and therefore of rather less value than the tooth fairy).
Because zoos should try to avoid offence, I do not like to see replicas of prayer flags, Hindu style temples for monkeys or elephants (very popular 100 years ago) or copies of sculptures from Easter Island, aboriginal rock paintings or ancient Greek muses: zoos in the West would never use a symbol like a crucifix in the design of an enclosure, so they should treat the symbols of all other religions in a similar manner.
On the other hand, in the past week I enjoyed visiting three zoos where I saw red bishops, bishop storks, brown capuchins, Banggai and pyjama cardinalfishes and pope cardinals (for which I claim double points
). I wish I had seen monk sakis, monk seals, apostle birds and parson birds as well 
but I don't think llamas count when they have 2l's
Alan
Because zoos should try to avoid offence, I do not like to see replicas of prayer flags, Hindu style temples for monkeys or elephants (very popular 100 years ago) or copies of sculptures from Easter Island, aboriginal rock paintings or ancient Greek muses: zoos in the West would never use a symbol like a crucifix in the design of an enclosure, so they should treat the symbols of all other religions in a similar manner.
On the other hand, in the past week I enjoyed visiting three zoos where I saw red bishops, bishop storks, brown capuchins, Banggai and pyjama cardinalfishes and pope cardinals (for which I claim double points
). I wish I had seen monk sakis, monk seals, apostle birds and parson birds as well but I don't think llamas count when they have 2l's Alan
Not offended, nicely put actually.
I think christians would say you were wrong because we messed up the world when eve ate the apple. This peeved god off so he let earth go, but eventually he will return and those who have followed and believed in him will go to heaven or whatever (btw, not a christian or any religion, just have a religious aunty lol).
European Fauna
Well-Known Member
"The measure of a society can be how well its people treat its animals" - Gandhi.Perhaps his statement may be about ethics , but of course ethics is a facet of any religion.Zoos can be a shining example in his respect , if they choose so.So here you have practical example of the infusion of religion , all religions , into zoos , without even getting into advanced philosophy or even any type of controversy.By the way , I think it would be lovely to see the quoted phrase spelt out in big letters as a mural in a fine zoo.It would in no case lead to any controversy , as Gandhi is respected everywhere , even in Pakistan.It is a phrase I always have at the bck of my mind , as I find it contains a huge truth.
As well the zoolex entry I have already provided showing the buddhist prayer flags, i was thinking of other places where religion comes into or could come into zoos:
-There is of course the wise words of religious leaders such as Gandhi
-There is the overall love and respect for wildlife taught through religion, form the undertsanding of ecology in buddhism to the love of all of 'gods' creatures in christianity
- In the elephant house at chester zoo, if you sit beneath a large tree trunk a folklore is given regarding the elephants. this folklore has no basis in scientific fact yet a zoo such as chester chooses to use this! religious folklores or beleifs could be utilised in the same way.
I'm sure there are others but those are the ways, I can think of, religion can be integrated into zoos.
-There is of course the wise words of religious leaders such as Gandhi
-There is the overall love and respect for wildlife taught through religion, form the undertsanding of ecology in buddhism to the love of all of 'gods' creatures in christianity
- In the elephant house at chester zoo, if you sit beneath a large tree trunk a folklore is given regarding the elephants. this folklore has no basis in scientific fact yet a zoo such as chester chooses to use this! religious folklores or beleifs could be utilised in the same way.
I'm sure there are others but those are the ways, I can think of, religion can be integrated into zoos.
Meg-T
Well-Known Member
I think this is a really interesting subject, and makes for an interesting debate.
Personally I do not see a place for religion in zoos, as said so many times before, zoos are meant to educate people, so evolution, natural selection and other ecological theories should be displayed.
If a zoo was to use religion there is then the difficult task of deciding which religions to include. As I mentioned on the linked thread where would you stop, would ALL major religions be displayed, then what about minor religions and offshoots, etc.
@Gentle Lemur: The point you raised with the prayer flags and grecian statues is an excellent one, which I had never considered...
Though I am not personally sure whether or not these should be used, as the theories and ideologies are not mentioned, only symbols. When designing themed areas I think available decoration would be extremely limited if anything with religious links was not used!
This being said I do think it is an excellent idea to provide for the religions/cultures of visitors (such as Muslim Prayer rooms and Marriage Licences), this allows more people to visit and gains more income. However the religion should be kept as a provision for the visitors, and not as an exhibited part of the zoo...
Sorry if my opinions offend anyone, they are just my opinions.
Personally I do not see a place for religion in zoos, as said so many times before, zoos are meant to educate people, so evolution, natural selection and other ecological theories should be displayed.
If a zoo was to use religion there is then the difficult task of deciding which religions to include. As I mentioned on the linked thread where would you stop, would ALL major religions be displayed, then what about minor religions and offshoots, etc.
@Gentle Lemur: The point you raised with the prayer flags and grecian statues is an excellent one, which I had never considered...
Though I am not personally sure whether or not these should be used, as the theories and ideologies are not mentioned, only symbols. When designing themed areas I think available decoration would be extremely limited if anything with religious links was not used!
This being said I do think it is an excellent idea to provide for the religions/cultures of visitors (such as Muslim Prayer rooms and Marriage Licences), this allows more people to visit and gains more income. However the religion should be kept as a provision for the visitors, and not as an exhibited part of the zoo...
Sorry if my opinions offend anyone, they are just my opinions.
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Evolution by natural selection is the most up to date scientific theory explaining our planet's incredible biodiversity, so why spew some rubbish about paradise gardens, divine beings with elephant heads, or (in extreme scenarios) our race arriving at this planet in 1987. Most zoos are self-professed scientific and educative institutions, so why pollute their messages with (at the very least) unproven religious teachings? I doubt any members of this site would like to see Partula Snails labeled as Bengal Tigers which roam the african plains and feed on Dodo eggs, so why present inaccuracies through religion. I can bear it if it is to help with an exhibit's theming (although gentle lemur does bring up a good point) but can't we leave zoos to present facts and go to church if we want to believe in divine flooding and big boats?
As centres of education why do zoos have to be limited to educating the public of animals, why not world culture? religion affects many cultures and environments and can give an insight into the world of a species. Snow leopards for example; Buddhist prayer flags and other religious items (specific to the area) can give the visitors a feel of what the himalayas are like and the enviornment. Visitors can understand what the himalayas are like through its representation and integration in the local religion.
It isn't just snow leopards this is limited to but alot of species, for example: orangutans, tigers, elephants (particularly asian elephants) and american bison.
Often in animal conservation it depends very much on the native people of that area, without them most animal conservation projects cannot support itself. So it is integral we understand the motivation and culture of the local people to protect wildife.
It isn't just snow leopards this is limited to but alot of species, for example: orangutans, tigers, elephants (particularly asian elephants) and american bison.
Often in animal conservation it depends very much on the native people of that area, without them most animal conservation projects cannot support itself. So it is integral we understand the motivation and culture of the local people to protect wildife.
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If a religion has a specific story or alike about a certain animal it is fine to include the story as long as it is presented as just that: A story. But presenting nonsense (sorry if that offends anybody but that's what it is from the scientific point of view) like 'Intelligent Design' as a serious theory doesn't belong in any zoo. It is unfortunate that some schools insist on teaching things that have absolutely no basis in science while simultaneously refusing to teach evolution which is in a very strong position from a scientific point of view. It's a bit like refusing to teach about atoms in physics because "it is just a theory".
BonkersBlake
Member
Ok guys let me tell you where I am. I'm a Christian studying Biology, I believe in both and whilst some people may say that's not possible I personally think it is (though difficult at times). I believe in Darwinism, in evolution, natural selection etc, I was never offended when taught it and I feel everyone should have it taught to them. However I believe God created what we have here today, I believe he created the concept of evolution and set it off, still overseeing it's progress now. I see it as an intelligent design. Now some things in the natural world may not seem to be intelligent...I saw a documentary looking at the anatomy and physiology of a giraffe and the dicussion of a nerve or blood vessel (can't remember which) that took a very long detour to connect up to a spcae just a few inches away in the neck. Richard Dawkins discussed this saying that this could not be an intelligent design but to me I take a blind leap of faith and think that God make a view quirks in the system, maybe for his own amusement or whatever else. Whilst thinking this I know the giraffe evolved into the shape it is today using natural selection and I take wonder in both aspects.
I wish there were more scientists or christians that would open their minds to see the other side, I know many try but the people who refuse to even consider another aspect really annoy me sometimes!
Anyway that's my view, I believe science and religion complement each other extrodinarliy well and the pieces that don't quite add up I take as gaps in our own understanding or just another thing God is asking me to believe. I hope I haven't offended anyone in expressing my views and I'm enjoying reading everyone elses.
I wish there were more scientists or christians that would open their minds to see the other side, I know many try but the people who refuse to even consider another aspect really annoy me sometimes!
Anyway that's my view, I believe science and religion complement each other extrodinarliy well and the pieces that don't quite add up I take as gaps in our own understanding or just another thing God is asking me to believe. I hope I haven't offended anyone in expressing my views and I'm enjoying reading everyone elses.