Toronto Zoo Ngozi/Gorilla Deal

Zoogoer2000

Zoogoer2000

Well-Known Member
So were all excited now with Ngozi's baby boy born last night but after reading about the deal that Toronto has with Woodland Park Zoo regarding Ngozi and her sisters, I was wondering if someone could awnser this a bit further

So as far as I know, The deal is this

Every other gorilla baby born to Amanda (starting with Ngozi) belongs to Toronto Zoo and the next baby (in this case, Calaya) belongs to Woodland Park Zoo

This would mean the lastest baby, Uzumma, belongs to Toronto Zoo

But after reading Calaya's fact sheet on Gorilla's Galore, it states she belongs to Milwaukee Park Zoo?!?

I have no idea what they have to do with any of this as Vip was born in the Netherlands and Amanda belongs to Toronto Zoo?

Would this be because Vip's mother or father was born at Milwaukee Park Zoo

I just did'nt exactly get this but if someone could clear it up, that would be great

Thank you
 
Milwaukee owns the sire, and it is thus reasonable to assume that they have a similar loan agreement. Woodland Park, housing the animals but not "owning" them would only get a small "slice" of the "offspring pie", if that makes any sense.
 
So maybe even thogh Toronto owns Uzumma, maybe she will stay at Woodland Park and then Amanda's next baby will return to Toronto
 
I spoke to one of the gorilla keepers today and they said this new baby will be staying at the Toronto Zoo until he's between 8-10 years of age.
 
If ti is a male, that will be the case for sure

If it turns out to be a female though, it may very well stay at Toronto Zoo as Charles will not try to push it out
 
Zoogoer2000 said:
If ti is a male, that will be the case for sure

If it turns out to be a female though, it may very well stay at Toronto Zoo as Charles will not try to push it out
Click to expand...

... in all likelihood, Charles will not be around in 8-10 years
 
Ungulate said:
Milwaukee owns the sire, and it is thus reasonable to assume that they have a similar loan agreement. Woodland Park, housing the animals but not "owning" them would only get a small "slice" of the "offspring pie", if that makes any sense.
Click to expand...

The loan agreements are an insurance policy basically. In real life the insurance policy probably never gets cashed as it will be in the interest of the cooperative breeding programme that any given offspring will benefit the entire programme. In other words, the male or female will eventually end up in another zoo which is participating in the cooperative breeding programme. Issues like relatedness, good founder representation and how best to resource the captive population to ensure 95-98% founder rep and long term viability.
 
About Charles and age, you never know he survived this long why not another ten?

As for the who owns the baby, today I was at the zoo and the volunteers where there with a keeper and where talking about the ownership, they said the baby will likely be owned by Woodland but they are still making agreements right now.
 
Zoogoer2000 said:
So were all excited now with Ngozi's baby boy born last night but after reading about the deal that Toronto has with Woodland Park Zoo regarding Ngozi and her sisters, I was wondering if someone could awnser this a bit further

So as far as I know, The deal is this

Every other gorilla baby born to Amanda (starting with Ngozi) belongs to Toronto Zoo and the next baby (in this case, Calaya) belongs to Woodland Park Zoo

This would mean the lastest baby, Uzumma, belongs to Toronto Zoo

But after reading Calaya's fact sheet on Gorilla's Galore, it states she belongs to Milwaukee Park Zoo?!?

I have no idea what they have to do with any of this as Vip was born in the Netherlands and Amanda belongs to Toronto Zoo?

Would this be because Vip's mother or father was born at Milwaukee Park Zoo

I just did'nt exactly get this but if someone could clear it up, that would be great

Thank you
Click to expand...

When WPZ received western lowland gorilla Amanda on breeding loan from the Toronto Zoo, we agreed that Toronto would own her first, fourth and seventh female and her second, fifth and eighth male offspring. So far, Amanda has two offspring – Ngozi and Calaya, both girls. Therefore, her first daughter Ngozi belongs to the Toronto Zoo and will go there (at the recommendation of the Gorilla SSP). Ngozi’s half-sister Monifa (the daughter of female Jumoke and father Vip) left WPZ in July 2006. WPZ owns Monifa but sent her on breeding loan to the San Francisco Zoo, also at the recommendation of the Gorilla SSP.
 
Thnak you for this clarification kelvin

Actually, Ngozi is already at Toronto (she arrived March/April 2008) and gave birth 3 weeks ago to her first baby

I think Monifa had a baby back in December as well
 
Zoogoer2000 said:
But after reading Calaya's fact sheet on Gorilla's Galore, it states she belongs to Milwaukee Park Zoo?!?

I have no idea what they have to do with any of this as Vip was born in the Netherlands and Amanda belongs to Toronto Zoo?
Would this be because Vip's mother or father was born at Milwaukee Park Zoo
Click to expand...

Vip was indeed born in Wassenaar Zoo, Netherlands. The bit that 'Gorillas Galore' doesn't show is that when Wassenaar closed down, Vip and his mother Linda were sent to Milwaukee- I think they were sold to them, hence their continuing involvement with offpring of Vip.
 
Ahh ok, thank you for that

Just some info on the zoo's gorilla's, I found my gorilla place mat!

Babies born at TZ

Sekani (1990) - CharlesXSamantha
Subira (1995) - CharlesXSamantha
Shalia (2002) - CharlesXSamantha
Natasha (1980, died 1985) - BarneyXSamantha
Johari (2001) - CharlesXJosephine
Jomo (1991) - CharlesXJosephine
Jabari (1990, died 2004) - CharlesXJosephine
Minkebe (1988, died 1989) - CharlesXJosephine
Tabatha (1980, died 2007?) - BarneyXJosephine
Male DNS (1983) - Josephine
Female DNS (1985) - Josephine
Male DNS (1984) - Josephine
Female DNS (1987) - Josephine
Male DNS (1999) - CharlesXJosephine
Catherine (1983) - BarneyXCaroline

Gorillas who were there in 1974
Amanda (Now at Woodland Park)
Samantha
Caroline (Died 2002 at Granby Zoo)
Julia (Died 2007? at Calgary Zoo)
Josephine
Barney (Died 1998 at Kansas City Zoo)
Charles

There was another gorilla mentioned on the chart named "Katrina" ? Apparently, she was born 1964 and died 1978. Was relation does she have to Toronto's gorillas'?
 
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