Noah's Ark Zoo Farm Creationist Zoo causes dismay

I;ve just been looking at their website and as both an atheist and someone who volunteers at Edinburgh Zoo I was very concerned! A zebra that is a Chapman/Grant cross. That's worrying they are prepared to do this and fly in the face of the scientific community that is all BIAZA, EAZA and WAZA zoos and wildlife parks. Edinburgh is very big on the whole Darwin and evolution thing, something that upsets some religious people who won't accept scientific fact. There are also a lot of clearly a lot of religious people who are comfortable with the science facts as they volunteer and work at the zoo.
Personally my view is that the role of modern zoos is in a mix of education, science and conservation. Noahs Ark doesn't seem to be doing much in the way of the scvience thing and I can't see them having a massive display proudly proclaiming chimpanzees are genetically 98% human and therefore our closest cousins in the animal kingdom! Indeed Edinburgh even goes as far as to state that if you follow the tree of life back far enough we share DNA with all plants and animals on the planet! That would really upset Noah's Ark!
 
I recently read that 50% of human DNA is shared with a banana ( or probably any other plant ) . Do not know if it is true or not though . I do remember a notice in the horrible little Monkey House at Noah's Ark explaining why man was different to other primates - don't ask me what it said though .
 
That actually stated that lemurs are related to apes, and because they're so different to us it proves we can't possibly be related to apes. Said sign also said lemurs have opposable thumbs and brachiate...
 
zebras

Noah's ark is the only collection in the UK mixing it's sub species of zebras. They now have a Grants/Chapmans hybid, if this continues eventually we will only be left with Chapmans looking zebras as the shadow stripes will be bred through in all crosses! Noahs ark are just bloody arogant and ignorant on many levels.
 
tizer said:
Noah's ark is the only collection in the UK mixing it's sub species of zebras. They now have a Grants/Chapmans hybid, if this continues eventually we will only be left with Chapmans looking zebras as the shadow stripes will be bred through in all crosses! Noahs ark are just bloody arogant and ignorant on many levels.
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Correct me if i`m wrong but they were given the chance to just keep 1 sub-species and turned it down,because they were happy with the Zebra`s they have got.
 
and how was he given the chance? to get rid of the stallion so he couldn't breed, happy with what they have or not, it is irresponsible to allow hybidization! Especially in the professional zoo world! He is not taking part in any early 1900's telegony experiments now! (excuse any poor spelling as fast typing due to being cross!)
 
tizer said:
and how was he given the chance? to get rid of the stallion so he couldn't breed, happy with what they have or not, it is irresponsible to allow hybidization! Especially in the professional zoo world! He is not taking part in any early 1900's telegony experiments now! (excuse any poor spelling as fast typing due to being cross!)
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I believe he was offered a chance to exchange the male for 1 of the same subspecies of the females,but declined the offer.
 
well one of his mares is a hybrid anyway and she is as old as gods dog! He is a wally! and that is very polite! He was prob offered to exchange the stallion for money and decided not to pay!
 
Do you know where the three zebras came from ? I think the stallion was there first .
 
tizer said:
well one of his mares is a hybrid anyway and she is as old as gods dog! He is a wally! and that is very polite! He was prob offered to exchange the stallion for money and decided not to pay!
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I`m surprised that he didn`t do the swap if he had to pay for the animals,as i know he bought the Rhino`s,Tapir`s,Male Zebra and the Tiger`s so he`s not adverse to having to buy animals because nobody will loan him them.I actually feel sorry for the Tapirs as i think they were better off at the collection they were at before he bought them,the housing is certainly alot worse at Noah`s.But then what do you expect from a collection that lists it`s Zebra`s and Donkey`s as Somali Wild Ass on ISIS.I also think Wally is a very polite description of him from what i have seen and heard about him it could be one hell of alot stronger!!
 
Its hard to understand this person who owns Noahs , does nobody tell him hes going totally wrong! isn't he advised by Biaza and other organisations on the breeding of animals and the care?
 
zoogiraffe said:
he`s not adverse to having to buy animals because nobody will loan him them.
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And all the zoos who work on the science side and members of all the associations don't pay for their animals, just the transportation costs. He probably wouldn't be allowed to be a member of BIAZA, EAZE or WAZA because of his stand on things and breeding practices anyway.
 
Simon McGlary said:
And all the zoos who work on the science side and members of all the associations don't pay for their animals, just the transportation costs. He probably wouldn't be allowed to be a member of BIAZA, EAZE or WAZA because of his stand on things and breeding practices anyway.
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They do sometimes, ;)
 
Simon McGlary said:
And all the zoos who work on the science side and members of all the associations don't pay for their animals, just the transportation costs. He probably wouldn't be allowed to be a member of BIAZA, EAZE or WAZA because of his stand on things and breeding practices anyway.
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Bad news for you this place is a full member of BIAZA,and as for only paying for transport of the animals the ones that i mentioned I KNOW that he bought and was not loaned them!
 
And all the zoos who work on the science side and members of all the associations don't pay for their animals, just the transportation costs. He probably wouldn't be allowed to be a member of BIAZA, EAZE or WAZA because of his stand on things and breeding practices anyway.
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Like zoogiraffe said, they are already BIAZA members. Would that mean they're allowed to sell animals?
 
The BIAZA Animal Transaction Policy is rather a set of recomendations than rules. Members are not forbidden from selling or buying animals. Whether money does or does not change hands is no indication of the credibility of either vendor or buyer. Many BIAZA members and non-members continue to buy and sell animals. True, the larger collections tend to frown upon putting a monetary value on an animals head but the practice continues.

Some of the greatest zoos in the world, San Diego and Berlin spring immediately to mind, freely buy and sell animals.

I personally do not agree with crossing Grant's-like and Chapman's-like zebras but at the end of the day it is no worse than Longleat continuing to breed zoo-lions, or Knowsley breeding hybrid baboons, or any zoo breeding non-stud-book animals of non-taceable ancestry (think of things like Raccoons, Prarie Dogs, Crested Porcupines). Such common animals are unlikely to be used for any kind of conservation plan and to the visiting public, which is the most important factor here, a zebra is a zebra, be it of a pure race or not.

Though I am not a fan of NAZF I do defend their right to base their education 'policy' on creationist theories for the reasons already put forward in the thread. And although their agricultural attidute towards 'wild' animal stockmanship is a little out of line with mainstream zoos, I think that there are some things to be learned from that. I like the idea of feeding the giraffe during the winter on browse silage - something I've never heard of anywhere else.
 
I think Woburn does the browse silage, it's in a guidebook I have.
Also, I see what you mean but I think it is a different thing with the zebra as they already knew their ancestry and purposely chose to hybridise them. It's be like obtaining pure bred lions and then hybridising them.
 
I don't think they purposely acquired different race zebras with the aim of hybridizing them. I think they took what was available. And that, circumstantially, was a Chapman's stallion and Grant's-like mares.
 
Ah, I was under the impression they did. I retract my previous statement :p
 
Paradoxurus said:
I don't think they purposely acquired different race zebras with the aim of hybridizing them. I think they took what was available. And that, circumstantially, was a Chapman's stallion and Grant's-like mares.
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But they could have held off breeding until they had a group of more similar origin. Whipsnade has a single Chapman's stallion but they don't throw it in to breed with the Grevy's as a 'next best thing' - it's kept separately. (I know we're talking about two potentially already hybridised subspecies at Noah's rather than two separate species, but I think the point stands. Why hybridise unnecessarily?)
 
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