Dudley Zoological Gardens Personnal opinions on Dudley

[zoogiraffe]

Yep, certainly agree with what you have said. Have you been to paradise wildlife park? Worth a visit, also Bristol.

Twycross Giraffes are similar to Dudley I agree, I guess the look and feel of Twycross is so much better though.

Chester is good, but would like to see the black Leopard ouside!!

Incidently, do all photos have to go into the gallery? Or can we post via photobucket on our threads? Cant find out in the help section, unless Im looking in the wrong palce of course!!

Dudleys and Twycross`s Giraffe House`s and enclosure are both old exhibit`s but this does not mean they are as bad as you are making out,some collection`s have built Giraffe exhibits in recent years that are alot worse than these willl ever be even if they don`t alter them in any way.

I think you mean Black Jaguar at Chester as they don`t keep Leopards,and as for him been outside don`t hold your breath.

 

[Dawn B]

Dudleys and Twycross`s Giraffe House`s and enclosure are both old exhibit`s but this does not mean they are as bad as you are making out,some collection`s have built Giraffe exhibits in recent years that are alot worse than these willl ever be even if they don`t alter them in any way.

I think you mean Black Jaguar at Chester as they don`t keep Leopards,and as for him been outside don`t hold your breath.

Well its my opinion that they are awful, total lack of environment enrichment and lack of space for wide ranging animals. I have witnessed harsh treatment to them too.

Could you point me to pictures of newer, worse enclosures, as Id very much like to see them, it will help me understand your feelings better on this as I cant imagine anything newer being any worse.

Yes I mean the Jaguar, its a shame its always inside.

 

[adrian1963]

Dawn I would mush rather go to a zoo that has shrubs and overgrown areas inside the enclosure then to the concrete and closely cut grass enclosure zoo's so joe public can see the animals know matter were they look in the enclosure.
Surely this type of enclosure is going to cause more stress to the animal in the long run as they have no where in the enclosure to get away from joe public.
I may have been brought up wrong in thinking that animals in the wild don't come from area's where the grass is cut down and they walk up to joe public and think nothing of joe public pointing camera's, shouting, screaming, banging on glass and throwing food at them.
I would like to see all zoo's have area's were the animals can escape the public glare without having to go back into there overnight area's.
As for the things you've said about your local zoo then I'm amazed because on my last visit to some of the more updated zoo's I've been to this year then the bear and tiger enclosure's yes are outdated but they are cattering for single animals not multiple animals like london, chester, blackpool, paignton, if you calculate the area to the animals in the enclosures then dudley has a far greater area per animal thus surely this is better for the animal.
I understand what you say abouyt the animals just being able to see the walls and nothing else. these building and enclosures should either be made able to hold animals or they should be got rid of, I know people say it's the zoo's fault but the real truth is if English heritage were to get off thier back sides and do something for a change instead of just saying these building's belong to us then maybe the zoo could do something better.
the orangutang house is now being modernised as they can longer build a new house due to the fallout from mobwen pulling out of the redisgn of the zoo so no more big funding.
As for the sealion and penguin pools smelling then you must actually walk round other zoo's with something on your nose because every zoo I have visited the pools have all smelt. This is due to the pools not being emptied every day, if they were to be emptied every day then the time it would take would mean the animals would unfortunatly have no where to swim.

 

[chessplayer]

Well its my opinion that they are awful, total lack of environment enrichment and lack of space for wide ranging animals. I have witnessed harsh treatment to them too.

Could you point me to pictures of newer, worse enclosures, as Id very much like to see them, it will help me understand your feelings better on this as I cant imagine anything newer being any worse.

Yes I mean the Jaguar, its a shame its always inside.

What "harsh treatment" have you witnessed exactly? And to be honest it tends to be the duck pond situated between the sealions and penguins that smells

 

[Dawn B]

Dawn I would mush rather go to a zoo that has shrubs and overgrown areas inside the enclosure then to the concrete and closely cut grass enclosure zoo's so joe public can see the animals know matter were they look in the enclosure.
Surely this type of enclosure is going to cause more stress to the animal in the long run as they have no where in the enclosure to get away from joe public.

Whilst I agree that animals need privacy, the purpose of a Zoo is supposed to be to conserve and educate, unfortunatley Dudley falls short in both of those respects in my opinion, and always has done. There is no excuse for the level of delapidation and run down areas in the Zoo, where animals are still kept.

I may have been brought up wrong in thinking that animals in the wild don't come from area's where the grass is cut down and they walk up to joe public and think nothing of joe public pointing camera's, shouting, screaming, banging on glass and throwing food at them.

Of course animals in the wild dont have cut grass Adrian but its the fastest way to drop numbers visiting if animals cant be seen. As a photographer, its a waste of time, so what the none "togs" may think, but a huge proportion of Zoo visitors, especially out of season are photographers, if they cant achieve even a reasonable shot, the place will be avoided, not good news for the Zoo concerned then is it? Funds will drop rapidly.

I would like to see all zoo's have area's were the animals can escape the public glare without having to go back into there overnight area's.

I have seen this in all Zoos Ive been to, which have you seen this as being not possible? The Giraffes yesterday couldnt get inside could they? Nor could the male Snow Leopard get outside, meaning the female couldnt get inside.

As for the things you've said about your local zoo then I'm amazed because on my last visit to some of the more updated zoo's I've been to this year then the bear and tiger enclosure's yes are outdated but they are cattering for single animals not multiple animals like london, chester, blackpool, paignton, if you calculate the area to the animals in the enclosures then dudley has a far greater area per animal thus surely this is better for the animal.

It doesnt matter how many animals are in an enclosure, its the quality of life and welfare that is paramount. its ok saying there is only one, but what about the welfare of that one? Does it not matter that its a single? The Bear and Tiger pits at Dudley ARE the pits!

I understand what you say abouyt the animals just being able to see the walls and nothing else. these building and enclosures should either be made able to hold animals or they should be got rid of, I know people say it's the zoo's fault but the real truth is if English heritage were to get off thier back sides and do something for a change instead of just saying these building's belong to us then maybe the zoo could do something better.

Of course its the Zoos fault, they are constantly accepting new animals they cannot cater for, they should refuse untill they have the proper environment for them to live in.

the orangutang house is now being modernised as they can longer build a new house due to the fallout from mobwen pulling out of the redisgn of the zoo so no more big funding.

Then IMO, those poor creatures should be removed and resited in a better place where they can display the correct behaviour, another park/Zoo.

As for the sealion and penguin pools smelling then you must actually walk round other zoo's with something on your nose because every zoo I have visited the pools have all smelt. This is due to the pools not being emptied every day, if they were to be emptied every day then the time it would take would mean the animals would unfortunatly have no where to swim.

Thats a bit rude, and uncalled for too. The pools stink and I have NOT smelled anything like it anywhere else, I suggest a trip to Whipsnade, or Chester for starters, and perhaps Cotswold Wild animal Park, I guarantee you they dont smell like the pools at Dudley.

I can see that you are very "pro" Dudley, whereas I am very "pro" animal welfare in Zoos, we differ on this.

 

[Dawn B]

What "harsh treatment" have you witnessed exactly? And to be honest it tends to be the duck pond situated between the sealions and penguins that smells

Nope wasnt the Duck pond at all, it was the Penguin pool.

I have seen a guy whacking the backs of the Giraffes legs with a fork with a wooden handle inside the house to move them away, shouting and screaming at one of them, which was panicking to get away. It was in November, I was the only one around at the time, he was shocked when he saw me to say the least!

 

[Maguari]

I can see that you are very "pro" Dudley, whereas I am very "pro" animal welfare in Zoos, we differ on this.

I think it's rather unfair to suggest that these are contradictory positions!

Dudley's OK. It doesn't have a lot of funds, but it's heading in the right direction, maybe not as fast as we'd like, but it's heading. And I've never noticed any more smells round Dudley than anywhere else.

 

[chessplayer]

Whilst I agree that animals need privacy, the purpose of a Zoo is supposed to be to conserve and educate, unfortunatley Dudley falls short in both of those respects in my opinion, and always has done. There is no excuse for the level of delapidation and run down areas in the Zoo, where animals are still kept.

Of course animals in the wild dont have cut grass Adrian but its the fastest way to drop numbers visiting if animals cant be seen. As a photographer, its a waste of time, so what the none "togs" may think, but a huge proportion of Zoo visitors, especially out of season are photographers, if they cant achieve even a reasonable shot, the place will be avoided, not good news for the Zoo concerned then is it? Funds will drop rapidly.

I have seen this in all Zoos Ive been to, which have you seen this as being not possible? The Giraffes yesterday couldnt get inside could they? Nor could the male Snow Leopard get outside, meaning the female couldnt get inside.

It doesnt matter how many animals are in an enclosure, its the quality of life and welfare that is paramount. its ok saying there is only one, but what about the welfare of that one? Does it not matter that its a single? The Bear and Tiger pits at Dudley ARE the pits!

Of course its the Zoos fault, they are constantly accepting new animals they cannot cater for, they should refuse untill they have the proper environment for them to live in.

Then IMO, those poor creatures should be removed and resited in a better place where they can display the correct behaviour, another park/Zoo.

Thats a bit rude, and uncalled for too. The pools stink and I have NOT smelled anything like it anywhere else, I suggest a trip to Whipsnade, or Chester for starters, and perhaps Cotswold Wild animal Park, I guarantee you they dont smell like the pools at Dudley.

I can see that you are very "pro" Dudley, whereas I am very "pro" animal welfare in Zoos, we differ on this.

Just to start, i feel your comments about dudley falling short on conservation are unfounded.I would like to point out -

DZG's Awards:
Significant contribution to conservation breeding for the Barberry carpet moth breeding project including the success breeding and reintroduction of this species since 1993, plus a Commendation in this category for Operation Triops and the excellent work on the breeding and conservation of the tadpole shrimp.

There was also a Special Commendation for promotion of invertebrate conservation for DZG's work in this field, including Kerry spotted slug, Geomalacus maculosus; fairy shrimp, Chirocephalus diaphanous, mud snail Lymnaea glabra and ladybird spider Eresus sandaliatus.

Best Field Conservation Project
for Dudley Castle Moat amphibian sanctuary the conservation of the great crested newt in the Dudley Castle moat plus a Commendation in this category for The Barberry Carpet Moth Conservation Project - field conservation of this threatened British moth

Now these may not be animals you want to take pictures of but they are still very important.

Did you think there may have been a reason why the giraffe and snow leopards did not have access to the indoor enclosures? like maybe the snow leopards have not been introduced yet. Did you see if the indoor giraffe house was being cleaned? or maybe some maintainance was being carried out.

Why would some one who says a zoo falls short on all points of modern zoo keeping and now acuses the keepers of abuse towards there animals continue to support them by going to the zoo???

It would seem to me you have a bee in your bonnet about Dudley rather than are pro animal welfare. I apologies in advance if my last statement seems harsh but this is the impression I get from your posts.

 

[johnstoni]

Sumatran tigers are animals of dense forest. Their needs might not include a nice view, although both of the pits have slopes at the back and vantage points the tiger and bear can choose to make use of. Sumatran tigers in particular seem to do well with a degree of privacy, and most importantly seclusion, in their enclosure. Dudley's record of parent-reared cubs seems to point to the fact that the enclosure, no matter how aesthetically unpleasant to our interpretation, served some of these needs better than many other zoos trying to breed this subspecies. How much pacing does the tiger do on your visits?

The Penguins actually have a large, naturalistic enclosure that I actually prefer to concrete ones garnished with a few pebbles. Sure, the latter is easier to hose clean, but on a gravel and soil substrate the smell is going to be stronger! Not dissimilar to how a wild colony might smell I should add. Also, Dudley have one of the largest and most successful breeding groups of Humboldts in the UK.

I agree with Dawn about the Orang Utans and giraffes. These clearly should have been prioritised before introducing new stock. However, I don't know what the new species brought to the zoo in the last two years has done for visitor numbers. I stand ignorant on this, because a steady increase in revenue may be what is funding the current works to the orang utan house. I do think the zoo should make a decision and loan one of the two great ape species to another collection until such a time that there can be two acceptable facilities for the apes at Dudley (I'm counting the chimp enclosure as one).

I don't agree that the giraffe enclosure is much worse than that of other zoos. Blackpool, London, Twycross in particular are three I am not fond of. I think this is an important point in that giraffe are not really perceived to have very complex behavioural welfare needs, and the public seem to accept seeing them in small yards even today. Bar or branch sucking (not browsing, there's a difference) is a telltale sign of boredom or stress in captive giraffids. But you can go to London zoo and see the Okapis in their landscaped and fairly lush exhibit and still see Elila behaving in this way for much of the day. Is there an enrichment programme for the dudley giraffes, do you seem them repeating sterotyped behaviours?

If you witnessed that sort of abuse from a keeper, I hope you reported it straight away. Thats the only constructive thing you could have done at that point to make the animals life better.

 

[karenZOO]

I can't wait to visit in a couple of weeks now - to have an opinion

I love photographing animals (no way professional standards ) and I love naturalistic enclosures where you have to stand there and wait for a sighting! Also makes so much better background than wire (or fake rock for the colchester design haters ).

I find a lot of togs at zoos annoying and avoid them - we are members of a photography site and their visits are all about the shot and have nothing to do with the animal at all and seem to only bother going to the 'exciting' animals anyway!

Least I have picked up a few tips from this thread (not sure about any must sees! )
1. take your own sandwiches
2. take a peg
3. watch out for togs with lawn mowers
4. Get loads of pictures of the derelict (beautiful) buildings I am especially going there to see, before zoochatters demolish them for progress and possibly a penguin tunnel

 

[Maguari]

4. Get loads of pictures of the derelict (beautiful) buildings I am especially going there to see, before zoochatters demolish them for progress and possibly a penguin tunnel

Hooray! Someone who sees value in the buildings - not just something old and shabby. Just for posting this, have a free bun!*







*Bun may not exist. Terms and conditions apply. If bun unavailable, have a good day at Dudley instead! If you were joking - boo you're mean! But have a good day anyway

 

[karenZOO]

Hooray! Someone who sees value in the buildings - not just something old and shabby. Just for posting this, have a free bun!*







*Bun may not exist. Terms and conditions apply. If bun unavailable, have a good day at Dudley instead! If you were joking - boo you're mean! But have a good day anyway

Not joking I love modernist/deco

Thanks for the bun I will pack it in my trunk and do my best 'johny Morris' voice while eating it

 

[adrian1963]

Dawn unfortunatly your remarks about concervation are in correct to say the least if you were to bother and ask around at other zoo's about the leading concervation zoo's in the europe then you would find Dudley are in the top three or are all the other zoos lying when it comes to awards and acknoledgements for this.
I have been to chester twice this year and yes the pengiun pool did smaell infact it had got a layer oa algea on top as keeper said at the time it was due to be cleaned for another five days.
So don't knock dudley just because it not one of the modern zoo's
As for educationg then when I visited Chester and London to my surprise they had exactly the same information on the animals as Dudley did and in most cases the sign's also said born at Dudley.
As for it's the zoo's fault then I could say the same about 99% of all zoo's I would like you to answer this question if you lived in a one bedroomed flat by yourself and you all of a sudden get told you have to share the flat with 4 other people would you say it's ok because I quite like the flat it makes me feel good personally I don't think you would.
As for the phtographers point of view I have spoken to many photographers round the zoo's I visit and at 80% say they would rather go to a zoo with natural surroundings then a zoo with just raillings and people, I take it you like just going to the zoo's for easy photo's and not a challenge like most other photographers.
Dudley will always be a none concrete easy to see zoo it's the natural state of the site
it has to be like that for conservation of the area.

 

[EvilKittie]

Hi Chizlit.

I agree about the Lynx enclosure, however thats how I feel about most of the enclosures there (needy.) The Giraffe enclosure is miserable, I think they have a pathetic existence, likewise the Bears and the Tiger. These animals look at concrete walls all day, the Bears are in poor condition, overweight and lethargic.

I think the Red Pandas are OK, but I used to feel sorry for the one with the deformed leg, thankfully he is in a much better environment now, and is like a totally different animal, much happier.

I think the Lemur walkthrough is really good, no complaints there, but the Sealions and Penguins stink, never smelled anything like that in any other Zoo for those animals.

The avaries are fine, except some of the Lemur ones would be better suited to Birds than Primates.

The Chimps are fine too, lots of space but a lack of new things to do and explore. The Orangs, I agree with you too, awful, awful place for such intelligent creatures to live. They desperately need helping.

Maybe Im just being harsh, but of course I can only compare my experience with that of other Zoos and animal parks Ive been to.

Dawn.

Just to say the giraffe enclosure is suitable for the numbers they keep, i would complain if they had 5 or more adults but currently they only keep 3 adults 1 sub adult 1 baby,

about the lemurs, they are redoing the enclosure but tbh it easier to keep the primates in those enclosure because people say there isn't much climbing things ITS A CAGE!!

about the sealion pool and penguin pool they dont smell! its the food, ive been in there and fed them it doesn't stink at all!

and the chimps have jsut had a big new climbing frame to put in

and the orangutan house is outdated and they doing something for them!

Well its my opinion that they are awful, total lack of environment enrichment and lack of space for wide ranging animals. I have witnessed harsh treatment to them too.

Could you point me to pictures of newer, worse enclosures, as Id very much like to see them, it will help me understand your feelings better on this as I cant imagine anything newer being any worse.

Yes I mean the Jaguar, its a shame its always inside.

you are complaining about envirmental enrichment for the giraffes? what is there giving them their food on branches (chester does that so does dudley) and putting the food in box so they have to work for it!!

Whilst I agree that animals need privacy, the purpose of a Zoo is supposed to be to conserve and educate, unfortunatley Dudley falls short in both of those respects in my opinion, and always has done. There is no excuse for the level of delapidation and run down areas in the Zoo, where animals are still kept.

Of course animals in the wild dont have cut grass Adrian but its the fastest way to drop numbers visiting if animals cant be seen. As a photographer, its a waste of time, so what the none "togs" may think, but a huge proportion of Zoo visitors, especially out of season are photographers, if they cant achieve even a reasonable shot, the place will be avoided, not good news for the Zoo concerned then is it? Funds will drop rapidly.

I have seen this in all Zoos Ive been to, which have you seen this as being not possible? The Giraffes yesterday couldnt get inside could they? Nor could the male Snow Leopard get outside, meaning the female couldnt get inside.

It doesnt matter how many animals are in an enclosure, its the quality of life and welfare that is paramount. its ok saying there is only one, but what about the welfare of that one? Does it not matter that its a single? The Bear and Tiger pits at Dudley ARE the pits!

Of course its the Zoos fault, they are constantly accepting new animals they cannot cater for, they should refuse untill they have the proper environment for them to live in.

Then IMO, those poor creatures should be removed and resited in a better place where they can display the correct behaviour, another park/Zoo.

Thats a bit rude, and uncalled for too. The pools stink and I have NOT smelled anything like it anywhere else, I suggest a trip to Whipsnade, or Chester for starters, and perhaps Cotswold Wild animal Park, I guarantee you they dont smell like the pools at Dudley.

I can see that you are very "pro" Dudley, whereas I am very "pro" animal welfare in Zoos, we differ on this.

in off season time every is working so if photographers want pictures of animal where will they go!

also new animals they cant cater for?? name some plz?? i seem confused...

about the tigers Dudley's track record with breeding those animal is long and that she wont be mixed because she is too old, and the bear are also too old to do anything!

rant over XD

 

[EvilKittie]

Not joking I love modernist/deco

Thanks for the bun I will pack it in my trunk and do my best 'johny Morris' voice while eating it

yippe buns!!!!

and another person who likes them!! (buildings not buns!)

 

[adrian1963]

Dawn you say I am very pro Dudley and you are very Pro animal welfare then why is it ok to cram animals in to area's that obivously are to small like at Chester and London or is it a case of you can take better photo's at these location's.
I will always stand up for Dudley zoo because I feel they are doing the best job they can to look after the animals in collection some of the animals at the zoo were taken on because no else wanted then because of there age.
I e-mail quite a few pro wildlife photographers who will tell you that zoo's like chester, london, whipsnade. edinburgh, and many more of the big zoo's and parks are in it for the money and nothing else they would rather go to the small zoo's and get realistic photographs of realistic animals doing what they do naturally.
And just to say that the bear and the tiger at Dudley zoo are acting naturally as both are solitary living animals in the wild not put in groups like some zoo's would have you believe.

 

[johnstoni]

Dudley is improving, but I wouldn't say it is in the top 3 of conservation-focused zoos in europe.

 

[adrian1963]

by coservation it probally means the breeding of rare species it may be my fault for getting mixed up sorry

 

[Dawn B]

Well you can all go on as much as you like, its a very very poor Zoo, with substandard conditions in many of its enclosures, but to pick up on a couple things....

Did you think there may have been a reason why the giraffe and snow leopards did not have access to the indoor enclosures? like maybe the snow leopards have not been introduced yet. Did you see if the indoor giraffe house was being cleaned? or maybe some maintainance was being carried out.

Yes I did, there was a sign saying the Snow Leopards were being "introduced" and one may be shut away, funny though, when I visited last, end of June I think it was, they were BOTH out together lying side by side on the top perch at the back of the pen! Amazingly the keeper also said what a terrific introduction they had had with them!! Weird eh!!

If you witnessed that sort of abuse from a keeper, I hope you reported it straight away. Thats the only constructive thing you could have done at that point to make the animals life better.

I certainly did report it, via email and letter, however I had no reply from either! Nor did I get a reply when I enquired about the Red Panda that had gone at the time.

I find a lot of togs at zoos annoying and avoid them - we are members of a photography site and their visits are all about the shot and have nothing to do with the animal at all and seem to only bother going to the 'exciting' animals anyway!

I find a lot of screaming children and adults annoying, Id LOVE to be able to avoid them!

As for the phtographers point of view I have spoken to many photographers round the zoo's I visit and at 80% say they would rather go to a zoo with natural surroundings then a zoo with just raillings and people, I take it you like just going to the zoo's for easy photo's and not a challenge like most other photographers.

So would I, which is why I find it incrediby sad to see Tigers and Bears looking at brick walls all day, the Tiger particularly repetitive pacing, likewise the Geoffroys Cat and the Lynx's! Sad indeed.

As for it's the zoo's fault then I could say the same about 99% of all zoo's I would like you to answer this question if you lived in a one bedroomed flat by yourself and you all of a sudden get told you have to share the flat with 4 other people would you say it's ok because I quite like the flat it makes me feel good personally I don't think you would.

No I wouldnt, but then Im a human being arent I! I make the choices for me, the animals in Zoos, or anywhere else for that matter cant do that, the choices are made for them. The mortality rate in Zoos is very high, most of it is due to the artificial surroundings they are kept in, the better Zoos for the most part have higher success rates.

Just to say the giraffe enclosure is suitable for the numbers they keep, i would complain if they had 5 or more adults but currently they only keep 3 adults 1 sub adult 1 baby,

In your opinion it is.

Dawn you say I am very pro Dudley and you are very Pro animal welfare then why is it ok to cram animals in to area's that obivously are to small like at Chester and London or is it a case of you can take better photo's at these location's.

What a strange thing to say Adrian. Yesterday you told me you were amazed at Chester and what a wonderful place it was! As for the photos, I take them wherever I go, and you didnt strike me as somebody who takes cheap shots either! (excuse the pun!) You also agreed how bad Dudley was in many aspects, have you forgotten?

More on next post too many quotes here!

 

[Dawn B]

And just to say that the bear and the tiger at Dudley zoo are acting naturally as both are solitary living animals in the wild not put in groups like some zoo's would have you believe.

Are they? Have you witnessed Tiger and Bear behaviour in the wild? I have. and just for you, here is a bit on the Bears they keep, please note the "live in family groups" bit!!

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Black_Bear]Asian Black Bear - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Oh and the Sumatran Tiger will live with her young untill they reach FULL maturity, not have them taken away.

Im surprised you didnt know all this already.

Dudley is improving, but I wouldn't say it is in the top 3 of conservation-focused zoos in europe.

TOTALLY agree with that!

about the sealion pool and penguin pool they dont smell! its the food, ive been in there and fed them it doesn't stink at all!

Oh is it? The food doesnt stink, the pool does!

and the chimps have jsut had a big new climbing frame to put in

Please note I said the Chimp enclosure was fine.

and the orangutan house is outdated and they doing something for them!

Yeah after how long? 30/40yrs? more? Nothing like prioritising is there!!

Anyway folks, seems I have stirred a few hornets nests here and I can see that Dudley is a fabulous place and what I saw, complained about and witnessed was all in my imagination!