Dudley Zoological Gardens Tecton Carnivore Pits - History of Occupation

[johnstoni]

Dudley Tecton Carnivore Pits - History of Occupation

I wanted to start this thread as there are many interesting comments and photos around the Tecton Carnivore Pits at Dudley zoo.

I believe they currently hold 0.1 Asiatic Black Bear (either Inca or Gretel has died) and 0.1 Sumatran Tiger (Sarah, swapped back for Raika with ZSL last year). Both are in retirement.

From what I can tell, the original occupants were generic African lions on one side (the 1972 map on here shows them on the left-hand side), and Bengal tigers on the other, with polar Bears in the circular pit until 1989. I know Pipaluk (the other London cub raised successfully after Brumas, born in 1967), and a female called Mosha left Dudley in 1989 for Katowice Zoo in Poland, and that Pipaluk was dead within the year. My question about the Polar bears is: I know Pipaluk came from London in 1985 when the mappins closed, was Mosha also from London or an existing Dudley animal? In which case was Pipaluk on his own when he left the Mappins? And how long did Mosha survive at Katowice?

Does anyone know at what point the zoo moved its lions out of the Tecton compound and into the enclosure they were then housed in until this year? And were Asiatic lions every kept in the tecton?

At what point were Asiatic black bears held in in this structure? The bears would have to have arrived post 1989 if the lions were still occupying the right-hand enclosure. Unless Black bears arrived to replace the lions when they moved to a purpose-built enclosure?

What I can't work out is how Dudley housed 5 Asiatic Black Bears in the 90s, before two of the females were moved to Glasgow:

Unbearable bears sent to Glasgow - News - The Independent

Either they were housed elsewhere in the zoo or the lions had to have moved out of the Tecton compound soon after the polar bears left, and were then replaced by a group of Asiatic Black Bears. My assumption was that Dudley had kept this species for many years, but it would appear not, as the bear ravine I think only ever held brown bears.

Furthermore, between these two 'unruly' females leaving for Glasgow in 1998 and their return in 2003/4, did the 3 remaining animals die or were they sent elsewhere, as they were not at the zoo to my knowledge when the 2 females returned from glasgow.

I am sure that tigers occupied the left-hand side of the tecton structure for its duration. At what point did Dudley start keeping Sumatrans, and have they just had the one breeding pair?

Just to complicate things, at one point the Sulawesi macaques were held in one of the compounds, I *think*......would this have been potentially after the 3 black bears either died or left leaving one of the compounds vacant? If this is true, I am pretty certain that the two female bears coming back from Glasgow were initially housed in the empty polar bear pit itself for a short period....until the macaques were relocated to their current enclosure. This would explain anecdotal accounts as well as the enclosure furnishings which appeared after the polar bears had long gone.

I would be interested to hear what gaps or inaccuracies I have presented so far.....

Also, this report for the proposed chimpanzee house using the Tecton building (I'm assuming now abandoned due to the funding pullout?), shows a photo of the polar bear pit with the back wall of the adjacent (current black bear) enclosure absent, and in its place is a metal fence. This, to me, would suggest that the back walls to the bear and tiger pits may not be listed structures, meaning the compounds could be extended right up the hill:

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If anyone can shed any light on the timelines, and individual occupants of this structure I would be really interested..........

 

[Pertinax]

anyone know at what point the zoo moved its lions out of the Tecton compound and into the enclosure they were then housed in until this year? And were Asiatic lions every kept in the tecton?

If anyone can shed any light on the timelines, and individual occupants of this structure I would be really interested..........

A couple of pieces for your jigsaw;

1. I don't think(not 100% though) that Asian lions were ever kept in the Tecton 'pit' The 'Lion' enclosure near the Ape House may have been built with them in mind. It may also have held a White Tiger from Bristol at one time before Asian Lions. I think their first Asian lions may have been two males born somewhere else in UK.

2. In the late 1960's there was a pair of Polar bears 'Hans' and 'Helga'. Presumably Pipaluk and Mosha replaced them. I think that it is mentioned somewhere on here where 'Mosha' came from but a big problem for you finding the reference nowadays with all the threads.

3. I cannot remember the Himalayan bears being kept elsewhere at Dudley but they may have been. I don't think they were ever in the Bear Ravine though.

4. I doubt they had Sumatan tigers prior to the intial breeding pair- again not sure though...

 

[Tim May]

I know Pipaluk (the other London cub raised successfully after Brumas, born in 1967), and a female called Mosha left Dudley in 1989 for Katowice Zoo in Poland, and that Pipaluk was dead within the year. My question about the Polar bears is: I know Pipaluk came from London in 1985 when the mappins closed, was Mosha also from London or an existing Dudley animal? In which case was Pipaluk on his own when he left the Mappins? And how long did Mosha survive at Katowice?

‘Pipaluk’ was born in London Zoo on 1st December 1967.

In March 1969, the female polar bear ‘Sabrina’ (born at Bristol Zoo) was acquired as a mate for ‘Pipaluk’.

In 1980, London Zoo and Whipsnade Zoo exchanged female polar bears in an attempt to improve breeding; as a result ‘Sabrina’ was sent from London to Whipsnade while ‘Mosa’ went from Whipsnade to London.

(NB The ZSL Annual Report for 1980 spells the name of this female as ‘Mosa’ (without an ‘h’); I assume that this is the same animal that you call ‘Mosha’.)

 

[Bwassa]

Sabrina and Amos were sent from Whipsnade to Chester in 1984, making them the last polar bears at Chester. Amos was put to sleep in June 1989. He had been losing weight and was found to have been suffering from kidney failure.
After Sabrina died, Chester developed their enclosure in to part of the Europe on the Edge Aviary in 1991.
I photographed both bears in Feb 1989, and the photo I have in the gallery of the enclosure was from this visit.

 

[johnstoni]

Unless this information is not accurate, below is a link apparently of Amos and Mosa/Mosha, apparently on the Mappins in 1967, the same year that Pipaluk was born to Sam and Sally, who would have also had to have been housed on the terraces at the same time for this to have been possible.

Getty Images - Unsupported browser detected

Incidentally, this interesting link to a September 1967 issue of LIFE magazine, appears to show Amos and Mosa supposedly again at London zoo, but using a pool that has a porthole for underwater viewing. I have never heard of the polar bear pool on the Mappin Terraces to ever have had any such facility for viewing the bears underwater, does anyone know any different?

LIFE - Google Books

 

[johnstoni]

A couple of pieces for your jigsaw;

1. I don't think(not 100% though) that Asian lions were ever kept in the Tecton 'pit' The 'Lion' enclosure near the Ape House may have been built with them in mind. It may also have held a White Tiger from Bristol at one time before Asian Lions. I think their first Asian lions may have been two males born somewhere else in UK.

3. I cannot remember the Himalayan bears being kept elsewhere at Dudley but they may have been. I don't think they were ever in the Bear Ravine though.

4. I doubt they had Sumatan tigers prior to the intial breeding pair- again not sure though...

SO, possibly the last lion enclosure was constructed for white tigers, which would explain why the original lion exhibit was the left-hand tecton pit; presumably the last white tiger left, Asiatic lions replaced it, and the Sumatran tiger pair replaced African lions in the left-hand Tecton pit? I would suggest that black bears came fairly early and occupied the right-hand pit from when the white tigers were exhibited in the separate area near the ape house, until they died out and were replaced briefly by the macaques, before returning there with the last two females when Glasgow closed.

I have a feeling that Chandy/Chandi, who was at Longleat, came from Dudley, but I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure Dudley had her and sent her to glasgow before she arrived at Longleat.

 

[easytigger]

In the early 90's there were spotted hyena in one, '93 i think, I was working at Penscynor at the time and that was '92-'94 on my YTS and there was definately bears near by at that time, my memories of my visit to dudley are some what hazy though

 

[Pacu]

Johnstoni, I have read elsewhere that the polar bear pool on the Mappins did have an underwater viewing panel. I did not see it myself and seem to remember the pool being to the left of their enclosure. If however it was orignially on the right (or I misremember it being on the left), perhaps there was viewing to the stairs? If it was on the left it would have been visable from across the ditch. Either way, if the old otter pool was anything to go by the algae would have rendered it fairly ineffective for viewing and presumably much harder to keep clean. I suspect it was pannelled over by the time I started to visit the zoo; I do think it existed, though.

 

[johnstoni]

That's amazing, the more I learn about the Mappin terraces the more fascinated I am by them. Sorry to go off-topic, but there's a fantastic book called 'the buildings of london zoo', and it shows the concrete 'goat runs' - tunnels through the hollow mountains that ran underneath the bear enclosures to the pig enclosures at the bottom, plus the spaces under the bear exhibits actually accessible to the bears. I don't think it mentions an underwater viewing porthole for the polar bears, though, so it may well have been sealed up as you say.

The buildings of London Zoo (Open Library)

I'm still confused about which bears were actually at ZSL in 1967, as 5 seem to be documented, including Pipaluk who was born there that year. If this is to be believed, by 1985, only Pipaluk and an 8-10 years older Mosa were left there (with his parents both presumably dead, and Amos residing at Chester) and both went to Dudley for 3-4 years before becoming the last polar bears to be seen at that zoo, too.

 

[chizlit]

Kind of a long shot I think, but if anyone has video of the BBC series One By One, this was filmed at Dudley in the 80's and is sure to feature shots of the tecton pits and who was in them at the time.

 

[zoogiraffe]

In the early 90's there were spotted hyena in one, '93 i think, I was working at Penscynor at the time and that was '92-'94 on my YTS and there was definately bears near by at that time, my memories of my visit to dudley are some what hazy though

Spotted Hyenas where in the left hand one in the early 1990`s as I have a photo of 2 of them in the enclosure.

 

[Pertinax]

I'm still confused about which bears were actually at ZSL in 1967, as 5 seem to be documented, including Pipaluk who was born there that year

I always thought Amos & Mosa were Whipsnade's pair- evidently they arrived first to London and then later were sent to Whipsnade.

Dd Amos ever return to London? Mosa, did for sure, in the exchange with Sabrina, before going with Pipaluk to Dudley.

 

[Pertinax]

I have read elsewhere that the polar bear pool on the Mappins did have an underwater viewing panel. ..., perhaps there was viewing to the stairs?

I saw the Polar bears/Mappins many times but don't remember a viewing window. I think it would have been set in the wall of the stairs rather than overlooking the ditch, so they would have been in one of the end enclosures. I suspect it soon became 'unviewable', for reasons mentioned above, so was either boarded up or blocked in.

 

[Tim May]

I saw the Polar bears/Mappins many times but don't remember a viewing window. I think it would have been set in the wall of the stairs rather than overlooking the ditch, so they would have been in one of the end enclosures. I suspect it soon became 'unviewable', for reasons mentioned above, so was either boarded up or blocked in.

Yes, when you were facing the goat hills, the viewing window was in the wall of the rightmost flight of stairs.

However, like you, I don’t recall seeing it in use either.

 

[Tim May]

If this is to be believed, by 1985, only Pipaluk and an 8-10 years older Mosa were left there (with his parents both presumably dead, and Amos residing at Chester) too.

Pipaluk’s parents were Sam and Sally; Sam was sent to Munich Zoo in 1975 and Sally died in 1975.

 

[johnstoni]

Again, apologies for the London tangent (it does end with the dudley Tecton enclosure at least), but this seems to be the timeline leading up to the last two Polar bears being placed at Dudley:

1965 - Amos and Mosa arrived as cubs from Russia, joining Sam and Sally, making two pairs of Polar Bears on the Mappins.
1967 - Sam and Sally are parents to Pipaluk.
1969 - Sabrina arrives as a mate for the 2-year old Pipaluk.
1975 - Pipaluk's parents die (Sally) and are exported (Sam) in 1975, leaving Pipaluk and Sabrina.
1980 - Sabrina is exchanged with Whipsnade who in exchange send Mosa back to London.
1984 - Whipsnade send Amos and Sabrina to Chester
1985 - London send Pipaluk and Mosa to Dudley

this is likely to be a photo of either Pipaluk or Mosa at ZSL:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2632/3986877938_407a60e44e.jpg

So if this is correct, the only question left is when did London send Amos and Mosa to Whipsnade originally? I wouldn't be at all surprised if London rotated animals keeping them inside on some days, this was practiced with other species at the time. I am wondering whether Amos and Mosa were eventually meant to replace Sam and Sally, but then Pipaluk was born. I think the arrival of Sabrina suggests that Amos and Mosa had been moved to Whipsnade by 1969.

This article from 1914, when the Mappin Terraces opened, mentions underwater viewing for the polar bear pool. I had no idea!
http://century.guardian.co.uk/1910-1919/Story/0,,98985,00.html

 

[johnstoni]

I would be very interested to see photos of the Spotted Hyenas in the left hand tecton enclosure at Dudley in the early 90s. I forget the internet wasn't really in general use back then. I was unaware Dudley kept hyenas, and had assumed that Colchester held the last ones even back then.

I would suggest that the age of the Sumatran tiger means that they occupied this exhibit directly after the hyenas either died or left the collection.

The written component of the proposals for the current tiger exhibit to be converted into a chimpanzee exhibit mention that hyenas have been housed in the Tecton. Interestingly, they don't mention macaques:

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Until I read these plans, and viewed the drawings which I have linked in an earlier post on this thread, I was under the impression from descriptions of the plans on this forum that the indoor ape house was to be the polar bear pit itself, covered with a roof, when in actual fact the proposals detailed a new building to the left of the tiger enclosure. The plans simply show the polar bear pit as an empty 'Tecton exhibit' space with no plans to house any animals there. I guess its irrelevant though as the contractors pulled out and the plans were rejected by English Heritage. I was also unware that the carnivore pits were the only Tecton structures to have been refurbished, in 1989.

Does anyone know whether Chandy (the white tiger that died at Longleat a couple of years ago) ever lived at Dudley?

 

[chizlit]

If it helps any as far as I remember the hyenas moved into what is now the bush dog enclosure, although I don't remember them in the tecton pits at all, but if zoogiraffe has photos then they must have been in there for a short time at least, I guess the tigers moved into the left hand tecton pit at this point when the hyenas moved out.

 

[Tim May]

I think the arrival of Sabrina suggests that Amos and Mosa had been moved to Whipsnade by 1969.

According to the ZSL Annual Report for 1968, Whipsnade acquired two polar bears that year. Perhaps they were Amos and Mosa; this would fit with your theory that these bears had been moved to Whipsnade by 1969. However, this Annual Report does not identify the bears as Amos and Mosa; neither does it state that they were transferred from London Zoo.

It is, perhaps, worth adding that Sam and Sally arrived at London Zoo in 1960.

 

[johnstoni]

That is interesting, I would stand by my assumption that Amos and Mosa left due to the birth of Pipaluk.

Sam and Sally, Pipaluk's parents, arrived therefore the year after Brumas died. I can find no evidence so far of Brumas being outlived by a mate at the time of her death. Possibly Sam and Sally were replacements for Brumas.