Whales and Dolphins in the U.K

There are only 41 Orca's in Captivity at the moment. From what I believe Sea World moved those Orca's out for many different reasons. Breeding Loan (but not a good idea seeing as all of those Orca's are related). Also, that was a few years ago. Right now? I don't think that SW would be sending animals anywhere unless there was serious money involved, but with it now being owned by Blackstone, who knows. Marineland in Canada is a Beluga breeding machine. Most places with BND's seem to have a relatively good breeding record, but not so much Orca's. I have no problem with moving around currently captive animals, but capturing new animals? I know I wouldn't ever visit that place (like even if I got the chance, I wouldn't visit Marineland Canada because it captured 8 new female beluga's last year).

I thought there was a law in Europe banning the import and export of captured cetaceans, if not, I've seen a dud bit of information about the internet in many places.
 
MarwellGirl09 said:
There are only 41 Orca's in Captivity at the moment. From what I believe Sea World moved those Orca's out for many different reasons.
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What reasons? Yes Sea World is now owned by Blackstone but I doubt that this will make a huge difference to the way they operate.

MarwellGirl09 said:
Breeding Loan (but not a good idea seeing as all of those Orca's are related).
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I have to say that having directly dealt with the vets and biologists at Sea World they certainly know what they are doing and take their captive breeding programme with their cetaceans very seriously.

I have to point out that captive breeding programmes for some endangered species are also dealing with gene pools smaller than those of captive orcas.

MarwellGirl09 said:
I thought there was a law in Europe banning the import and export of captured cetaceans, if not, I've seen a dud bit of information about the internet in many places.
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By Europe you mean members of the EU? Cetacean import into the EU is controlled by CITES which, due to the EU's C1 listing, actually prohibits commercial trade in these animals but allows import for research and eduction which would allow them to be imported for zoological displays. This wouldn't disallow wild caught animals but if the animals where caught from wild populations that were not considered sustainable there could be problems.

It sounds like the same misinformation you get on some sites that say the dolphin keeping in the UK was banned. That's was why I set-up my Marine Animal Welfare web site to try and give a more balanced view of these kind of statements.
 
I'm not saying that they don't take breeding programmes seriously, but with Tillikum being father to so many calves, it's getting difficult. At Loro Parque, they're all related via Tillikum. I'm almost certain that they are trying to keep from inbreeding, but it's already happened with Katina and her sadly deceased son Taku resulting in Nalani. I would like them to cooperate with somewhere like Marineland Antibes, but I don't see it happening straight away. SO many Orca's have Tillikum genes its scary... there are very few that don't have his bloodline somewhere. It's great that they got to breed the Orca's in the first place, but now... I'd say situation is critical. :S


I knew Dolphinarium weren't banned. The legislation for getting the facility in the UK is very complicated, very expensive and I don't think anyone with enough money would want to put up with anti-captivists.

That's awesome that you've actually dealt with Sea World Vets and Biologists. I'm actually slightly jealous :P May I ask when and how you got to deal with them? That's just amazing! :)
 
MarwellGirl09 said:
I'm not saying that they don't take breeding programmes seriously, but with Tillikum being father to so many calves, it's getting difficult. At Loro Parque, they're all related via Tillikum. I'm almost certain that they are trying to keep from inbreeding, but it's already happened with Katina and her sadly deceased son Taku resulting in Nalani. I would like them to cooperate with somewhere like Marineland Antibes, but I don't see it happening straight away. SO many Orca's have Tillikum genes its scary... there are very few that don't have his bloodline somewhere. It's great that they got to breed the Orca's in the first place, but now... I'd say situation is critical. :S
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As far as I was aware only three of the Loro Park animals have been fathered by Tillikum and they all share unrelated mothers.

Moreover, Sea World is now using Artificial Insemination (AI) techniques - which is also now being used in other large mammals such as elephants and dolphins at Ocean Park, Hong Hong- as it allows greater control of genetics and the need for moving mature males from one facility to another is reduced. This certainly open the way for easy inter-collection cooperation between aquaria holding cetacean internationally. Sea World and other facilities, of course, do take part in international breeding programmes and so forth.

You should also be aware wild killer whales have very limited genetic diversity so they are “in bred” in nature. See Hoelzel, etal paper HERE.

There are quite a number of species within captive breeding programmes that are far more “in bred” than killer whales will be even in many generations.

MarwellGirl09 said:
That's awesome that you've actually dealt with Sea World Vets and Biologists. I'm actually slightly jealous :P May I ask when and how you got to deal with them? That's just amazing! :)
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I have been a professional in zoos for many years as a marine mammal trainer, zoo keeper, aquarist and zoo manager. I was mainly involved with the people at Sea World in the mid to late nineties and attended a number of annual meetings with them and also attended as specialist witness for a press conference they held in London at this time.
 
MarwellGirl09 said:
I honsetly hope we never get Cetaceans. I really don't think we'd find someone willing to spend the money on a good facility, put up with the anti-captivists AND get through all of the legal rubbish. On top of that they Orca's, Dolphins or other cetacean's would have to be from other facilities and right now, not many seem interested in sharing their animals.

Remember that the most common captive cetaceans are Bottlenosed Dolphins and Beluga's. There are only a few False Killer Whales, Orca's and other cetaceans in captivity. Animals like Striped Dolphins or Common Dolphins would have to be captured and I don't *think* that the UK can import captured animals. I'd have to check out that piece of legislation again. But I know I wouldn't visit if they captured more animals. Yes, every where had to get their animals from somewhere, but captures do NOT need to happen these days.
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I doubt they would bring belugas/killer whales/ false killers into the uk to start with, BND are the obvious choice. Having said that, the general public may be more welcoming to a species that wouldn't perform, like Belugas (thinking like seaworld here) so maybe that would be a route for them to consider.

Do belugas perform anywhere? And is there anywhere in the world that exhibits dolphins but does not train them?
 
sealion said:
I doubt they would bring belugas/killer whales/ false killers into the uk to start with, BND are the obvious choice. Having said that, the general public may be more welcoming to a species that wouldn't perform, like Belugas (thinking like seaworld here) so maybe that would be a route for them to consider.

Do belugas perform anywhere? And is there anywhere in the world that exhibits dolphins but does not train them?
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vancouver aquarium has a beluga display, duisburg used to do an all singing all dancing beluga show
 
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sealion said:
Do belugas perform anywhere? And is there anywhere in the world that exhibits dolphins but does not train them?
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Ironically its "husbandry training" which is practised at many zoos derives from techniques introduced for dolphin, whales and sea lions at the now closed Marineland of the Pacific.

Most, if not all dolphins are trained as it's a very easy way to handle them which reduces stress. As for shows they vary from place to place. To be honest from the dolphins point of view the context to the display means nothing to them whether it be 'circus' style or educational. I have always thought that training was one of the original forms of enrichment anyway.

Does the Carrot Need the Stick? Are aversive stimuli an obligatory component in the training and maintaining of behaviours in animals?
 
John Dineley said:
Ironically its "husbandry training" which is practised at many zoos derives from techniques introduced for dolphin, whales and sea lions at the now closed Marineland of the Pacific.

Most, if not all dolphins are trained as it's a very easy way to handle them which reduces stress. As for shows they vary from place to place. To be honest from the dolphins point of view the context to the display means nothing to them whether it be 'circus' style or educational. I have always thought that training was one of the original forms of enrichment anyway.

Does the Carrot Need the Stick? Are aversive stimuli an obligatory component in the training and maintaining of behaviours in animals?
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Right, thanks. This suggests that if dolphins were brought into the UK again, they would be "trained" and most likely perform shows. Even if this helps destress them, the british public will automatically think that the shows are bad for the dolphins. This is a hurdle any potential dolphinarium would have to consider very thoroughly. As for the likes of belugas/walruses or other non-performing whales, they may be better accepted by the public if they don't perform.
...tricky situation, education would be the answer I guess.
 
You are right sealion, 'Edutainment' is the key. It provides the enrichment the animals need and trains for stress free medical and husbandry procedures which has John so rightly points out are so useful and important.
People visit zoos to be entertained. They do not go to be educated. Using Sealions as an example. Many zoos 'train' their animals for shows. Some of these have zero/zilch/nil educational value. In another zoo exactly the same trained procedures have maximum educational input plus the entertainment as well. All that has changed is the commentary. I recall John Dineley's excellent sealion shows and commentaries with some fondness.
 
Peter Dickinson said:
I recall John Dineley's excellent sealion shows and commentaries with some fondness.
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Thank you Peter :o

Here is a link to the opening video from the IMATA conference which has just finished. Note the trained blood taking from the tiger.


More and more zoos are doing this husbandry training - I saw some very good stuff done at Edinburgh with rhinos and foot inspections. Years ago to do such work would have required crush cages and possible anaesthesia with all it's prevailing risks. Much of this came about through work with marine mammals in aquaria and dolphin shows.
 
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John Dineley said:
Thanks. The trainer on the video is Shirley Gallagher who with her husband Stuart trained the dolphins at Morecombe for a number of years whilst it was owned by the local council. Probably it's most successful period of operation.
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ah that's cool that you know stuff like that, I guess everyone knew each other in the business.
 
Colchesters training with their sealions is really well thought out. I know this thread is about dolphins and whales but i think zoos and wildlife parks time and effort put into training animals for a stress free procedure should be mentioned. Has anyone heard of Colchester's 'Jezz Smith'?
 
UK Dolphinaria Update

For those interested I have just updated the Flamingoland area of the UK Dolphinaria web site with many photos from the period of the last three female dolphins being there until they left in 1993.

There are photos of the shows, research being undertaken, the eduction displays and of the filming of "The Fruit Machine" and the "Dolphins, Dolphins Dolphins" educational guide book.

Flamingo Park aka Flamingoland
 
John Dineley said:
For those interested I have just updated the Flamingoland area of the UK Dolphinaria web site with many photos from the period of the last three female dolphins being there until they left in 1993.

There are photos of the shows, research being undertaken, the eduction displays and of the filming of "The Fruit Machine" and the "Dolphins, Dolphins Dolphins" educational guide book.

Flamingo Park aka Flamingoland
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interesting pictures, alot of things seemed to have gone on at flamingoland! did we ever find out why they didn't use brighton dolphinarium for the fruit machine?...maybe I have forgotten the reason. :rolleyes:

I haven't been able to find much information for blair drummond or cleethorpes, do you know much? (what i've found is on my website The History of Defunct Marine Mammal Parks - Home)
 
sealion said:
interesting pictures, alot of things seemed to have gone on at flamingoland! did we ever find out why they didn't use brighton dolphinarium for the fruit machine?...maybe I have forgotten the reason. :rolleyes:

I haven't been able to find much information for blair drummond or cleethorpes, do you know much? (what i've found is on my website The History of Defunct Marine Mammal Parks - Home)
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brighton is open all year, while flamingoland has a peak season and a closed season
 
sealion said:
I haven't been able to find much information for blair drummond or cleethorpes, do you know much? (what i've found is on my website The History of Defunct Marine Mammal Parks - Home)
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I have put up some photos of Blaid Drummond taken at it opening; the dolphins can be seen to still have lanolin on their bodies from the transport. The pool was put undercover a year or so later and it is where the sea lions are now displayed.

Blaid Drummond Safari Park

The last dolphin shows at Cleethorpes was in 1974 - I know because I was the trainer there for the last season. Not many pictures are around. The two dolphins I had were called Max and Leigh and they leased from a dolphinarium on the Florida Keys for the summer.
 
John Dineley said:
I have put up some photos of Blaid Drummond taken at it opening; the dolphins can be seen to still have lanolin on their bodies from the transport. The pool was put undercover a year or so later and it is where the sea lions are now displayed.

Blaid Drummond Safari Park

The last dolphin shows at Cleethorpes was in 1974 - I know because I was the trainer there for the last season. Not many pictures are around. The two dolphins I had were called Max and Leigh and they leased from a dolphinarium on the Florida Keys for the summer.
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Thanks! l have to update my site at some point. That list on your uk dolphinaria page is useful, i'll have a look for any photos of the ones you don't have any on. I'm running out of pages on my website but it would be nice to find the photos anyway! I'll let you know if I find any. :)
 
Other than at brighton, flamingoland, knowsley, blair drummond, whipsnade and woburn, do any of the dolphin/whale pools still exist? (has woburn changed their pool since the dolphins?)
 
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